My review of Diamond Pro/Am table

[AuntyDan]

I can't tell you about the pocket geometry but I have played on a 5. The table was amazing looking, and played similar to other Gold crowns. I was disappointed that the tournament edition (pro cut) was a additional grand.

I didn't realize they were charging more for it! Plus it appears from their website that the Tournament edition only comes in one color/finish, which is odd as it appears the only thing they are changing is the sub-rails which don't have any visible finish anyway.

 

[GordonRamsay]

Yeah but when it comes down to it .... they are still veneers. There Diamond Professional has the option for regular hardwood.

 

[gulfportdoc]

1. This room also had GC4's and when I looked at the tables more closely it looks like the reason the table frame kept colliding with my feet and legs is it seems to be closer to the perimeter of the table than on the GC. And the GC does not have a skirt/apron like the Diamond does. I'm 6 foot 3 so my body and stance will be different on the table than many other people. I'm not making it up that the frame kept getting in my way.

I'm surprised that I never noticed my legs bumping into the skirting. I'm 6'2". Perhaps your front leg is quite a bit forward in your stance.

2. The ball storage sounds like a good idea. I wish it were standard. This room had maybe 12 Diamonds and 8 GC and none of the diamonds had this storage option. I would imagine if given the choice few room owners would spend the money for it, unless they are one pocket or bank players themselves. That said, from a players perspective, it would be nice if it was standard equipment.

The storage racks are wonderful. My room owner put them on all the diamonds, to allow us one-pocket players to store the balls.

3. Regarding the pocket gully, it would be an easy fix (I think) to ramp up the floor just the last few inches. That is if others besides me think it is an annoyance. I will say you can't just blindly reach down to grab a ball from it. I had to look for the ball and then grab it, to prevent from pushing it away. This may be petty but after playing on the table for 8 hours it was definitely an annoyance to me, and I'm not one that is easily annoyed. This might only be an annoyance to one pocket and bank players where you are grabbing one or two balls each inning, as opposed to 9 ball players who grab the whole rack at the end of the game.

I really don't like any ball return tables, although as I recall the GCs are not so low as the Diamonds. I much prefer drop pockets-- both for ease of practice, and for one pocket. The ball returns are too low, causing a taller guy to have to bend over too far. I hate that fishing for balls in the return while racking.

So, in my case I prefer the Diamond tables with leather pocket irons and drop pockets.

Doc

 

[Bob Jewett]

I still don't get how players think a cushion can make a ball speed up after hitting the rail unless you're talking about english speeding it up.

Where does the extra energy come from?

On a typical "deadish" cushion, the ball loses 75% of its energy on a shot straight into the rail. When a ball loses only 65% of its energy, it looks like it's spring loaded.

I think when shooting straight up and down the table, you should be able to hit the far end three times (5 table lengths) without break-shot speed. The GC3s where I play aren't fast enough to let you do this. One problem is that Brunswick had a problem with cushion rubber around the time the room opened (15 years ago?), and the rubber has been dieing ever since. About half of the rubber has been replaced. That experience makes me think that GC cushions are a questionable standard.

 

[TXsouthpaw]

The GCV (and I believe some other Brunswick commercial models like the Metro) are finally available with a "Tournament Edition" pocket setup which seems to me to be directly aimed at the popularity of Diamond tables in Professional tournaments. I believe they have 4.5" corners and 5" side pockets, but I have no idea if the geometry is similar to Diamonds.

yeah the new tournament edition gcv and the metro have 4.5 inch pockets and they play tight. IMO id take Brunswick any day of the week. From what i hear the metro is whats preferred in the Philippines and its what the moconi cup and wpc have been played on the last couple of years. So if its good enough for them its good enough for me.

 

[TXsouthpaw]

Heres some pix of efren and svb matching up in the philipines (not with each other) on the metro tourament edition.
I forget what pool hall it is but it only has metros. When in doubt do as the Filipinos do

 

[jay helfert]

Heres some pix of efren and svb matching up in the philipines (not with each other) on the metro tourament edition.
I forget what pool hall it is but it only has metros. When in doubt do as the Filipinos do

That's a look into One Side. I think they have 8 Metros in there.

 

[Cuebuddy]

Yeah but when it comes down to it .... they are still veneers. There Diamond Professional has the option for regular hardwood.

Yes you are right, my Diamond pro was originally ordered with hardwood rails. Then I decided to upgrade with the Dymondwood rails I liked the look and it really helps the resale value, not that I will sell her but one never knows:wink:

 

[Mark Griffin]

Just because tables appear at cerain tournament venues, does not have anything to do with the quality of the tables. It has more to do with which company will pay the highest sponsor fees. (Often times, there are sponsor loyalty issues involved.)

I am referring to the Mosconi and WPC - Matchroom has a contract to use Brunswick - it has NOTHING to do with which table is best.

Brunswick tables are fine. But their quality just does not match that of a Diamond. Bob Jewett's comment about 'bad rubber' has happened on several occasions with Brunswick - I have NEVER heard of a set of artemis rubber going bad. By the way Artemis costs 6 times or so more than most rubber (including Brunswick).

To infer that Dymondwood is just a veneer is misleading - it costs more than most exotic materials. It is harder to work with - but it will outlast anything else out there. It is designe3d for commercial applications. By the way- you can order ANY Diamond table with ANY rail wood you want. It is just a matter of cost.

Just some thoughts.

I will also add that one reason Metros are in Phillipines is because they are made in China. The freight and American made costs have limited Diamond having a lot of tables over there. (But a Diamond table is going to Phillipines for Efren's use.)

Mark Griffin

 

[sunnyday]

Now you've done it...

S.

 

[JB Cases]

Be glad Mark that you don't have Diamonds here in China/Asia. Then they would be copied. Most of the rooms I play in here in Xiamen have all Brunswick copies. A few have ONE or a FEW real Brunswick tables which they advertise proudly.

The local seller of pool tables KING BROWNS proclaims on TV that the Brunswick Metro design is his original design.

 

[TXsouthpaw]

Just because tables appear at cerain tournament venues, does not have anything to do with the quality of the tables. It has more to do with which company will pay the highest sponsor fees. (Often times, there are sponsor loyalty issues involved.)

I am referring to the Mosconi and WPC - Matchroom has a contract to use Brunswick - it has NOTHING to do with which table is best.

Brunswick tables are fine. But their quality just does not match that of a Diamond. Bob Jewett's comment about 'bad rubber' has happened on several occasions with Brunswick - I have NEVER heard of a set of artemis rubber going bad. By the way Artemis costs 6 times or so more than most rubber (including Brunswick).

To infer that Dymondwood is just a veneer is misleading - it costs more than most exotic materials. It is harder to work with - but it will outlast anything else out there. It is designe3d for commercial applications. By the way- you can order ANY Diamond table with ANY rail wood you want. It is just a matter of cost.

Just some thoughts.

I will also add that one reason Metros are in Phillipines is because they are made in China. The freight and American made costs have limited Diamond having a lot of tables over there. (But a Diamond table is going to Phillipines for Efren's use.)

Mark Griffin

No offense mark but your not exactly unbiased. Its like when glen comes on and only hypes diamonds. It comes off as disingenuous. I'm not affiliated with Brunswick or I too could spew off a bunch of facts and figures to support my argument. and fwiw Ive heard from a few sources that the Filipinos "prefer" the metro to the diamonds and thats why they have them, and that it has nothing to do with shipping costs and the like.
And if the rails really costs 6x's as much as other rails then people shouldnt be complainin about them; but they are.

 

[Bigtruck]

Rails

No offense mark but your not exactly unbiased. Its like when glen comes on and only hypes diamonds. It comes off as disingenuous. I'm not affiliated with Brunswick or I too could spew off a bunch of facts and figures to support my argument. and fwiw Ive heard from a few sources that the Filipinos "prefer" the metro to the diamonds and thats why they have them, and that it has nothing to do with shipping costs and the like.
And if the rails really costs 6x's as much as other rails then people shouldnt be complainin about them; but they are.

Artemis rails are top shelf. It's not disputable. If most of the pool halls we've played in forever have a certain rail, that's what were used to.

I've had my ProAm for almost 2 yrs now and the rails are perfect! Consistent. I believe how the rails are loaded when the cloth is applied is certainly a factor.

The leg bumping thing.....LOL. I think is just whining. I've had way more leg bruises from Gold Crown Ball return boxes!

If you don't like Diamond tables, you haven't spent much time on one.

Ray

 

[whitewolf]

I own a brand new Brunswick table and a two year old Diamond.

My Diamond has 4.25" pockets and my Brunswick has 4.5" pockets.

My observation of ALL Brunswick tables: the pockets spit balls out. Heck, I can fire in a ball on my Diamond and I have more confidence that the ball will go down, even coming off the rail at medium speed.

Why is this? The Diamonds are made better. By that I mean that every table is hand produced in the Diamond factory. The rails are built for each table. If you damage a rail you have to send all the rails back to the factory so that they can make it a perfect fit. I was told this by a Diamond table mechanic who put my table together. Why do you think that Daimond guards its patent on its tables? They are indeed superior.

Brunswicks rails on the other are not made at the Brunswick factory - they are purchased from other sources, and not even the same sources all the time.

I love the Brunswick rails but I would rather have a Diamond ANY day. My Diamond has drop pockets and they are deep. The owner of Diamond likes one pocket and he made his tables with deep pockets for this reason.

One last thing. My Diamond is made of oak, and it is practically indestructable. There isn't a scratch on the rails.

 

[cardiac kid]

Guy's, I'm certainly not an expert or a world class player but.... As my ex always told me, give me a Diamond every time! If Greg's design wasn't superior, Brunswick and a few others would not be revising their tables to play more like a Diamond!

My first experience with Diamond tables was at the Turning Stone $50k added event several years ago. I loved watching some of the World's best players stare in disbelief at a ball hanging in the pocket that would have fallen every time on a GC. The rail speed is repeatable on every Diamond (or Gabriels) I've ever played on. Would you rather play on a Valley or a Diamond 3.5 x 7?

Come on guy's, give Greg and Mark the credit they deserve! In my experience, no one has done as much for both the game of "pool" and the players.

Lyn

 

[cardiac kid]

Ive heard from a few sources that the Filipinos "prefer" the metro to the diamonds and thats why they have them

It's my belief if you gave them a warped slate table with dead rails, they would still find a way to beat you and me!

And if the rails really costs 6x's as much as other rails then people shouldnt be complainin about them; but they are.

Aren't we talking about pool players? We would find something to complain about with perfect conditions. I've never lost a match! It was always the conditions or bad luck!

 

[tjlmbklr]

I own a brand new Brunswick table and a two year old Diamond.

My Diamond has 4.25" pockets and my Brunswick has 4.5" pockets.

My observation of ALL Brunswick tables: the pockets spit balls out. Heck, I can fire in a ball on my Diamond and I have more confidence that the ball will go down, even coming off the rail at medium speed.

Why is this? The Diamonds are made better. By that I mean that every table is hand produced in the Diamond factory. The rails are built for each table. If you damage a rail you have to send all the rails back to the factory so that they can make it a perfect fit. I was told this by a Diamond table mechanic who put my table together. Why do you think that Daimond guards its patent on its tables? They are indeed superior.

Brunswicks rails on the other are not made at the Brunswick factory - they are purchased from other sources, and not even the same sources all the time.

I love the Brunswick rails but I would rather have a Diamond ANY day. My Diamond has drop pockets and they are deep. The owner of Diamond likes one pocket and he made his tables with deep pockets for this reason.

One last thing. My Diamond is made of oak, and it is practically indestructable. There isn't a scratch on the rails.

Then you definately wouldn't want to play on my Olhausen w/ 4.5" pockets.. They are worse then a picky child and fresh Brussels Sprouts with spitting things out..! :thumbup:

 

[cardiac kid]

Then you definately wouldn't want to play on my Olhausen w/ 4.5" pockets.. They are worse then a picky child and fresh Brussels Sprouts with spitting things out..! :thumbup:

To the contrary, I would love to play on your table. A friend of mine in Vegas has an Olhausen with the tight pockets. Try as he might, he has yet to beat me on his table. Nine ball or banks!

Lyn

 

[mechanic/player]

Doe's anyone know of a table manufactuer who has ever used a set of cushions that were perfect in design and the way they play and last and never needed to be re-placed or re-designed in that company's lifetime?

 

[Mark Griffin]

Just the facts

No offense mark but your not exactly unbiased. Its like when glen comes on and only hypes diamonds. It comes off as disingenuous. I'm not affiliated with Brunswick or I too could spew off a bunch of facts and figures to support my argument. and fwiw Ive heard from a few sources that the Filipinos "prefer" the metro to the diamonds and thats why they have them, and that it has nothing to do with shipping costs and the like.
And if the rails really costs 6x's as much as other rails then people shouldnt be complainin about them; but they are.

I realize I am biased-but that does not alter the facts. The ONLY reason I affiliated with Diamond is because of the quality and committment to pool. The same cannot be said about Brunswick. I honestly do not feel you or anyone can 'spew off a bunch of facts and figures' - because the facts favor Diamonds materials.

It usually comes down to personal preference -and that is fine. But to compare imported rubber to artemis is ridiculous. Brunswick rubber probably costs $25 a set-artemis is over $150. Artemis has been a standard for years and with no known failures - please try to say the same for any other imported rubber.

I really did not come here looking to argue - but to state that one is better because of 'feel' is just an opinion. But the facts are that Diamond maintains better quality at the manufacturing level. And they are more than willing to make changes if it improves the product.

All the other manufacturers had their opportunity to make a better table - most elected to make a cheaper table. Sometimes quality costs more and sometimes it doesn't. A Diamond usually costs less to buy than a Brunswick...but that is because Diamond is factory direct. A NEW ProAm (with Dymondwood rails) is less than $5,000. Tournament used ones are quite a bit less. Diamond does not charge an additional $1,000 for pro-cut pockets like Brunswick does.

Anyhow, enuff rambling. I support Diamonds - and I am biased. I also respect Brunswick for what they have done for pool. But they have no excuse for the rubber problems they have had over the years - it is because of trying to buy a much cheaper part.

Mark Griffin