my take on cuemakers , case makers and table mechanics.

L

lorider

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
it just amazes me after reading horror story after horror story on here about members dealings with certain people in the above trades that people still get in line to deal with these certain people and then come on here crying ...oh woe is me...i got a bad deal with a certain cue maker...case maker .or table mechanic.

quality aside...cuemakers fall into one of 2 categories. those that do what they say...and those that don't.

since showman has been in the limelight lately lets use him as an example. i am a nobody in the cue collecting world but yet i have known for years that he is one of those that is not gonna do what he says he will do when he says he is gonna do it.

let me clue you guys in on why he is that way. because you people that deal with him tolerate it.

he is just like real king cobra

he is conceited

he is egotistical

he does what he wants...when he wants

he knows he is good

he knows people will tolerate his work ethic just to get one of his cues

he knows if he loses one person as a customer due to his work ethic some one else will take their spot.

deal with him or don't . he aint changing the way he is unless his customes make him change.

other threads about him have not influenced the cue buyers and i doubt if quality cues thread will either.

i just cant understand why people will put up with liars and shoddy work ethics from these 3 trades but will raise holy hell if a plumber or electrician is a few hours late and will never use his services again.
 
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M.G. said:
This guy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sxzfj19qiMI
Click to expand...

yea that guy.

dont take my post as hating the guy.

i am just stating the way he is.

john himself said he has never finished a job in the alloted time frame he has given a cutomer in 20 years.

all i am saying is that people are aware ....or should be aware of his failure to ever complete a job in a timely manner , yet they still line up to have him do work for them then they act outraged when they get the run around from him...which he is well known for. as are certain other cuemakers ...case makers and table mechanics.

i know life can throw you a curve ball and shit happens sometimes. when those occasions arise these tradesmen should man up and call the customer and say.....something come up and i cannot complete your order in the specified time frame. some would rather lie and then cover that lie with another lie and it escalates from there.
 
lorider said:
i know life can throw you a curve ball and shit happens sometimes. when those occasions arise these tradesmen should man up and call the customer and say.....something come up and i cannot complete your order in the specified time frame. some would rather lie and then cover that lie with another lie and it escalates from there.
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I can guarantee you it's not easy when your body gives up on you.
In almost ten years of making and many more doing repairs I just recently had to do that very thing. You have NO clue how hard it was! Worse than trying to swallow a pork roast in one bite!!!!
Only having to refund money on one cue the rest (ten) decided to wait. I still have every intention of finishing them all and the guy that got a refund will still get his cue,I even told him he can have it for free. He knows what I'm going through as do the others and I don't blame him one little bit as I might have done the same.
 
lorider said:
it just amazes me after reading horror story after horror story on here about members dealings with certain people in the above trades that people still get in line to deal with these certain people and then come on here crying ...oh woe is me...i got a bad deal with a certain cue maker...case maker .or table mechanic.

quality aside...cuemakers fall into one of 2 categories. those that do what they say...and those that don't.

since showman has been in the limelight lately lets use him as an example. i am a nobody in the cue collecting world but yet i have known for years that he is one of those that is not gonna do what he says he will do when he says he is gonna do it.

let me clue you guys in on why he is that way. because you people that deal with him tolerate it.

he is just like real king cobra

he is conceited

he is egotistical

he does what he wants...when he wants

he knows he is good

he knows people will tolerate his work ethic just to get one of his cues

he knows if he loses one person as a customer due to his work ethic some one else will take their spot.

deal with him or don't . he aint changing the way he is unless his customes make him change.

other threads about him have not influenced the cue buyers and i doubt if quality cues thread will either.

i just cant understand why people will put up with liars and shoddy work ethics from these 3 trades but will raise holy hell if a plumber or electrician is a few hours late and will never use his services again.
Click to expand...


How are these people any different than the crazy artist/painter/writer that acts ridiculous and only creates what they want when they want and how they want???

An electrician isnt a artist hes a tradesman who had vacation time, sick leave, insurance and typically has people to go to work when he cant.

when you buy a highend cue your buying art and its not for everyone.


Im not saying I support acting in this manor but I do know what its like to fall behind and then get slammed and feel like theres no way out to make people happy. thats why I no longer take orders I build for fun these days and when I make a cue if someone wants to buy it they can but I dont think ill ever take a custom order without it being my fulltime career and having a partner its just to easy to fall behind.

I think sometimes this site gets the lench mob mentality very fast towards anyone who messes up. Theres not one single person on this forum who doesnt have a few skeletons in the closet, weve all messed up at work had issues and fallen behind. Most people dont get slammed publicly for it tho and have their livelyhood possible ruined.

Just my .02 not trying to start a fight.

Hopefully things get better for showman and his customers soon.
 
cuebuyer4u said:
How are these people any different than the crazy artist/painter/writer that acts ridiculous and only creates what they want when they want and how they want???

An electrician isnt a artist hes a tradesman who had vacation time, sick leave, insurance and typically has people to go to work when he cant.

when you buy a highend cue your buying art and its not for everyone.


Im not saying I support acting in this manor but I do know what its like to fall behind and then get slammed and feel like theres no way out to make people happy. thats why I no longer take orders I build for fun these days and when I make a cue if someone wants to buy it they can but I dont think ill ever take a custom order without it being my fulltime career and having a partner its just to easy to fall behind.

I think sometimes this site gets the lench mob mentality very fast towards anyone who messes up. Theres not one single person on this forum who doesnt have a few skeletons in the closet, weve all messed up at work had issues and fallen behind. Most people dont get slammed publicly for it tho and have their livelyhood possible ruined.

Just my .02 not trying to start a fight.

Hopefully things get better for showman and his customers soon.
Click to expand...

as i stated in my 2nd post....i am not hating on showman.

not trying to start a fight either.:D but i do not think showman should be compared to a crazy artist.

ernie guiterrez ....black boar ...hercek.. richard black....thomas wayne come to mind when you speak of artists . .they are not crazy.....well maybe thomas wayne is the exception if you want to say some one who is outspoken ,,,,conceited ...egotistical and full of themself is crazy . :D

have you ever heard of any of the above cue makers being bashed on here for lieing and holding some ones property like showman has ?

showman....imo is more of a master craftsman like dennis searing .....who has a helluva waiting list also but has never been accused of pulling stunts like showman has ...to my knowledge.

and yes i too hope showman gets his act together in dealing with his customers.
 
Have you ever talked to someone with a passion for what they do? There is a huge difference when someone is passionate about something they love, vs. when that thing becomes a job. One of the biggest mistakes I see from these guys that seem to come here only when their called to the matt, is at some point it became a job.

Unfortunately people that have jobs, have responsibilities. Cue dealers are no different, no one wants to tie up money for extended periods of time. Its one reason I stay away from cues that need to go back to the "list" makers. I can't tie up 2500-3500 on a cue that needs shafts, and a refinish. I usually check on the turnaround time. You tie that money into a South West you might not see the cue for 12-16 months. That is a factor.

Its a real shame and a black eye when it comes to threads like the ones started. Not just for that maker, for everyone in the hobby. It decreases the likelihood that someone NEW will come in, it will make people think about getting cues to have them refurbished. It will reduce cue value. So I cannot get an "A" list maker to flip a refinish so I go to cuemaker b for a quick job. But now the cue is not original to the maker, and devalued in a sense.

To much drama for a shrinking market and hobby.

JV
 
classiccues said:
You tie that money into a South West you might not see the cue for 12-16 months. That is a factor.
Click to expand...

I sent my cue in for a refinish + letter + 2 new shafts in '12. I remember the turnaround was <3 months as promised by Laurie. She was true to her word and I'm no big customer of hers.

She actually promised to send the butt back refinished in 3 weeks, but I asked her to send until the shafts are done.
 
SplicedPoints said:
I sent my cue in for a refinish + letter + 2 new shafts in '12. I remember the turnaround was <3 months as promised by Laurie. She was true to her word and I'm no big customer of hers.

She actually promised to send the butt back refinished in 3 weeks, but I asked her to send until the shafts are done.
Click to expand...

There was a time her turn around was better than most. My last go around 6 mos plus in late 13. The point being if you're a reseller, then the initial tying up the money is a factor.

JV
 
lorider said:
it just amazes me after reading horror story after horror story on here about members dealings with certain people in the above trades that people still get in line to deal with these certain people and then come on here crying ...oh woe is me...i got a bad deal with a certain cue maker...case maker .or table mechanic.

quality aside...cuemakers fall into one of 2 categories. those that do what they say...and those that don't.

since showman has been in the limelight lately lets use him as an example. i am a nobody in the cue collecting world but yet i have known for years that he is one of those that is not gonna do what he says he will do when he says he is gonna do it.

let me clue you guys in on why he is that way. because you people that deal with him tolerate it.

he is just like real king cobra

he is conceited

he is egotistical

he does what he wants...when he wants

he knows he is good

he knows people will tolerate his work ethic just to get one of his cues

he knows if he loses one person as a customer due to his work ethic some one else will take their spot.

deal with him or don't . he aint changing the way he is unless his customes make him change.

other threads about him have not influenced the cue buyers and i doubt if quality cues thread will either.

i just cant understand why people will put up with liars and shoddy work ethics from these 3 trades but will raise holy hell if a plumber or electrician is a few hours late and will never use his services again.
Click to expand...

I don't know him and would never order a cue from him because I'm too cheap and probably would die before I ever got the cue but is it possible his cues are desirable because he is slow and meticulous and obsessed with the details? If he started turning out 1,000 cues a year what would happen to the quality and price?

The reason people deal with him because they see his cues as an investment.
 
It's really simple, put the customers on a list, when their time comes up send the cue - no reason ro have it sitting there for months/years or in some cases decades. I've had 2 cues at one cuemakers for ~ 8 years and another for probably 5 or more.

The cue should show up, be refinished and shipped back. If you dont have time to work on it, call me when you do.
Jason
 
South wes cues has a well deserved super high reputation
even mentioning them,Laurie on a post like this is unfair to her

why would anyone offer anything but praise to a little widow who took up right where her husband left off

the quality of the cues is at least as good as it ever was and her well deserved praise and
quality has produced a long waiting list,people wait 19 years only to be
tickled pink when their cue arrives

my sincere compliments to Laurie and her fellow craftsmen

I still offer $500 profit to anyone with a new cue arriving,a guaranteed profit

on every cue you get

what other product in the world can you do that with?

Barry Szamboti? ok that makes 2

Let me mention 2 super dependable quality makers to you.I guaranteed you will like your service and wonderful cue..Bob Owen and Jerry rauenzahn

and Mark gregory does great table work!

I just like to point out the positives ,great guys at the top of
their industry

best wishes
dean
 
lorider said:
he is just like real king cobra

he is conceited

he is egotistical

he does what he wants...when he wants

he knows he is good.
Click to expand...

Oh really, hmmm.....you don't know me, I've never done any work for you. You haven't been on AZ all that long, yet you think long enough to judge me, that's funny. Maybe YOU should look into jumping into one of the 3 professions you seems qualified to criticize, god knows the world needs more real professionals in those 3 fields of work. But have you ever stopped to ask yourself why those 3 fields of work have such a high demand on only a certain select few? Take my work for example, seeing how you brought me into your conversation. Can you recommend a pool table mechanic that can not only rebuild rails, but who can also turn 3 piece slates into one piece slates? Or how about one that can take a 3 bolt rail system, and redesign the rails to a 5 rail bolt system....while also adding a leveling system to the frame of the table so the slates can be fine tuned for level later on....without having to take the table apart?

I guess I should have asked you first though, do you even have any idea as to what I'm talking about? Here's something else for you to think about, no one else in this whole country, or around the world, has a mobile cutting system designed to re-cut the frames of pool tables to a true flat surface so the slates set flat on the frame, which in turn means they'll stay flatter longer when the frame can no longer change the level of the slates.

Real King Cobra
 
deanoc said:
South wes cues has a well deserved super high reputation
even mentioning them,Laurie on a post like this is unfair to her

why would anyone offer anything but praise to a little widow who took up right where her husband left off

the quality of the cues is at least as good as it ever was and her well deserved praise and
quality has produced a long waiting list,people wait 19 years only to be
tickled pink when their cue arrives

my sincere compliments to Laurie and her fellow craftsmen

I still offer $500 profit to anyone with a new cue arriving,a guaranteed profit

on every cue you get

what other product in the world can you do that with?

Barry Szamboti? ok that makes 2

Let me mention 2 super dependable quality makers to you.I guaranteed you will like your service and wonderful cue..Bob Owen and Jerry rauenzahn

and Mark gregory does great table work!

I just like to point out the positives ,great guys at the top of
their industry

best wishes
dean
Click to expand...

Mark does great rail work, and finish work second to none, but do you still have that Cenntennial you bought from Mark, if so, how does it play?
 
Most of these are one man bands and take too much work in for a one man shop. Some shops are part time, as they have a regular job also. They take more and more orders that they know they can get out on time. I call it greed. Either get someone to work for you or pass on the jobs. Very simple, Johnnyt
 
realkingcobra said:
Oh really, hmmm.....you don't know me, I've never done any work for you. You haven't been on AZ all that long, yet you think long enough to judge me, that's funny. Maybe YOU should look into jumping into one of the 3 professions you seems qualified to criticize, god knows the world needs more real professionals in those 3 fields of work. But have you ever stopped to ask yourself why those 3 fields of work have such a high demand on only a certain select few? Take my work for example, seeing how you brought me into your conversation. Can you recommend a pool table mechanic that can not only rebuild rails, but who can also turn 3 piece slates into one piece slates? Or how about one that can take a 3 bolt rail system, and redesign the rails to a 5 rail bolt system....while also adding a leveling system to the frame of the table so the slates can be fine tuned for level later on....without having to take the table apart?

I guess I should have asked you first though, do you even have any idea as to what I'm talking about? Here's something else for you to think about, no one else in this whole country, or around the world, has a mobile cutting system designed to re-cut the frames of pool tables to a true flat surface so the slates set flat on the frame, which in turn means they'll stay flatter longer when the frame can no longer change the level of the slates.

Real King Cobra
Click to expand...

you are absolutely right about a few things

i do not know you....you have never done any work for me....i have only been a member for 4 years.

my comparison of showman to you is based on several posts i have read about you during my 4 short years on this forum.

your failure to complete work in the time frame agreed upon between you and your customer...just like showman

your failure to return a customers property in a timely manner when the customer demanded his property back......just like showman

your failure to return a customers money back to him in a timely manner when he demanded it for work not performed. .....just like showman

your level of craftsmanship was never questioned in my post and neither was showmans.

now in the above situations there may have been extenuating circumstances or in your mind you may have had a good reason for those situations to arise , but the facts are they did arise and your customers were very unhappy. ...just like showman

as for my statement about being egotistical and conceited....don't take offense . most people are that way when they are at the top in their chosen proffesion. :D

i was guilty of that myself one time in a certain proffesion.
 
lorider said:
you are absolutely right about a few things

i do not know you....you have never done any work for me....i have only been a member for 4 years.

my comparison of showman to you is based on several posts i have read about you during my 4 short years on this forum.

your failure to complete work in the time frame agreed upon between you and your customer...just like showman

your failure to return a customers property in a timely manner when the customer demanded his property back......just like showman

your failure to return a customers money back to him in a timely manner when he demanded it for work not performed. .....just like showman

your level of craftsmanship was never questioned in my post and neither was showmans.

now in the above situations there may have been extenuating circumstances or in your mind you may have had a good reason for those situations to arise , but the facts are they did arise and your customers were very unhappy. ...just like showman

as for my statement about being egotistical and conceited....don't take offense . most people are that way when they are at the top in their chosen proffesion. :D

i was guilty of that myself one time in a certain proffesion.
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The only thing he was trying to prove, to himself and not everyone else, is that it is ok to not do what you said you would do or what your customer wants as long as you think you are the best in the business.

All of those things that he stated he could do mean absolutely nothing when you have no morals and your customer service is garbage. The sun does not rise and set on RKC's hind end.
 
Taking a stand for a hard worker.

realkingcobra said:
Mark does great rail work, and finish work second to none, but do you still have that Cenntennial you bought from Mark, if so, how does it play?
Click to expand...


RKC, I have seen some of the pictures of your work AND seen the negativety, trust me, I have been in the middle of things like this in person.

From 1992-2010 I built houses and hired many great subs.

I know roofers for example who charged me $25 per square in labor, it was low because the roofer never seen the job until the day he's ready to start, this keeps them working. If they had to go thru angies crap hole, they would pay at least $75 per square in labor for a number of reasons, not limited to her crap hole, advertising and making the bids take time. A good roofer would prefer to work for the lower pay and keep busy, two roofs in one day at times. It's impossible to deal with two cry babies wanting a bid they have to talk about with their wife and then some crap hole, keeping busy keeps the cost down, you see, I told the roofers to show up on their schedule and to keep themselves busy.


Beware of posters who have no friggen clue like you do, you have the understanding that they are not grown up enough to know, that is why they post crap, it reminds me of angies crap hole, people are hired based upon the comments coming out her A$$

I trusted other builder's opinions and we talked amongst ourselves and we were smart enough to never brag to some crap hole.

I dealt only with specialized subs, never any know it alls, they are too smart for me, they knew it all when they were 3 and they are so smart they have been telling everyone this ever since, henceforth, angie posters, I have never and never would have hired one person thru them.

A Genius can learn from any fool but a fool will never learn from a Genius.

JUST A SIMPLE SHOUT OUT TO OUR GREAT FELLOW AMERICAN EARNING AN HONEST LIVING, CELEBRATE, THANKS.



Not accepting orders at this time, Thanks, Dave.
 
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Dave, this isn't about a bidding war between two people trying to make a living in the same profession. It is about a man keeping his word and not lying to his customers. If it makes you feel better to take up for RKC and other liars in the billiard industry then by all means go for it. Liars and thieves ARE NOT making an honest living or living the American Dream.
 
Allen Brown said:
Dave, this isn't about a bidding war between two people trying to make a living in the same profession. It is about a man keeping his word and not lying to his customers. If it makes you feel better to take up for RKC and other liars in the billiard industry then by all means go for it. Liars and thieves ARE NOT making an honest living or living the American Dream.
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My Friend, if I may. You have now shown yourself in a way to be wrong, PERHAPS, please stick with me.

I am not even referring to BID cost, you see, I now know, you missed my point.

I will now think of you as an angie poster,

UNLESS ONE THING!!

You can prove to me that YOU hired him and YOU had these problems.

IF you can prove this to me, I will erase my comments and say,


GREAT JOB OF HELPING ME KNOW WHAT I DIDN'T KNOW ONE MINUTE AGO.

Thanks for this great chance for,,,,


ONE SMART PERSON TO LEARN SOMETHING, we can talk about the second person after that.

Thanks again, Dave.
 
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