My Take on the IPT

[Blackjack]

“Cautiously Optimistic”
I'm an optimist, but I'm an optimist who takes his raincoat.

I really hope the IPT works out.

If it doesn’t…. all you “I Told You So” people will take your bows and your keyboard wisdom and move on to your next target.

Maybe you should all get together and write a new book,
“The Power Of Negative Thinking”

I knew that someone would write this.

FWIW, I am not a newbie in the world of pool, and neither is Jay.

I have received this type of criticism before.

When the Camel Tour folded, I was one of the "naysayers" that was singled out as being partly responsible for supposedly creating a negative outlook on the tour for the indsutry and many players. The tour was a bad deal if you were not one of the top 10 players. By stating that publicly and by alerting the players and the pool playing public of the consequences of the financially lopsided payouts, I was accused of contaminating the positive outlook of pool and contaminating the loyalty of the players. I took many hits personally and profesionally for speaking out about that. One clown from Meucci actually got on RSB back in 1998 and chastised me publicly in that forum. At the time, The Camel Tour and professional pool sat in ruins. I was told that players like myself were ungrateful for all that Bob Meucci and Don Mackey had done for pool up to that point. LOL. These remarks were made due to my association wth the PCA, which was a viewed as a renegade organization. Yes, in the end the PCA failed. Its never fun when any tour folds. I would not wish that upon anybody, not even the IPT.

I am sure that the intention of Kevin Trudeau is to do something good for pool - on the surface. I have said all along that as 2007 approaches that the IPT would become his hot potato. I've heard he sold 49% of it to some European company (not verified) and I have heard that he has sold it to Stanley Ho (not verified). If the IPT is such a great thing, why is he trying to sell it to someone else? What exactly is he selling? Is he seling the tour, or is he selling the players? I'm still not sure what it is that he is selling.

Let's just say that the IPT goes terribly wrong and must close shop. What then happens to the players? Many have taken this tour into their hearts and they have attached dreams to the success that this tour is promising. Despite what others have implied in this forum, for the players I hope and pray that this tour succeeds and prospers.

There is one problem: This tour is spending more than it is making.

There is no way to stay afloat when you are shelling out millions in prize money and production costs and only raking in $30K per event - tops. I don't care what they are making in advertising revenue. That will not keep this tour's head above water. If KT had billions of dollars - I could see this lasting for a long time and I would not be concerned. However, I believe that when the WPA named their price for sanctioning to KT that he couldn't even cover that. They called his bluff and he folded like a cheap lawn chair.

I'm not a poker player (Jay is) I'm just a pool player. I know when someone does and doesn't have money. I have great instincts for that sort of thing. So does Jay, so does Randy Goldwater, and so does Don Purdy. None of us are stupid, and if labeling us as negative or as naysayers makes you feel better about yourself - go for it. Its not going to change the fact that the IPT business model is defective or non-existent.

If this thing was working out so well and if it is the money making machine that pool has been waiting for - then why is Kevin trying to unload it onto somebody else's shoulders? I know why. He cannot sustain the IPT at the current ratio of revenue vs expenditures. This is something that many of us realized more than a year ago. I just hope that whomever ends up owning the IPT after KT can provide the players with a certain future to go along with the big money.

If the IPT folds, no I won't be writing an "I told you so" speech. I won't have time for that. It will be up to people such as myself, Jay Helfert, Randy Goldwater, Charlie Williams, and others to put Humpty Dumpty together again.

 

[NYC cue dude]

Firstly, I don't want anyone here thinking I'm a naysayer. Even though i have nothing to lose or gain whether the ipt fails/succeeds, I want everyone here to know, publically, that i WANT desperately, for the ipt to succeed.

I love pool, it's history, but mainly the players. I consider it an honor to call very many of the best players in the world my closest friends. For that reason alone, i want the tour to grow, succeed and hopefully be the start of similar tours, with similar benifits for the players.

I am not a wannabe player, wanna be promoter or newbie fan of pool. This should remove the idea that i have some agenda with regards to the outcome of the ipt's future.

My real concerns stem from the recent news of london's cancellation, checks not being given out at the close of the reno event and that there is a possibility that the 2007 season might not begin until june.

Incidentally, my understanding is that ALL of the players from vegas HAVE been paid. I know for a fact that includes all of the final 6.

I have no reason to beleive that all the players wont be paid for this last event. But why the dealy? I'm not naive enough to beleive the fedex story. Admittedly, though, i don not have the answer. My instincts tell me one thing, my heart says another. Of course, i will give the ipt the benifit of the doubt, always, until the bitter end.

I will be the FIRST to rant and rave IF one check ever bounces, or worse. I hope that day never comes.

Fans of pool should realize one thing though. If you love pool, really love the game, then you must acknowledge that we collectively have put all our eggs in one basket.

Ultimately, i think, the ipt's loudest detractors have that as their guiding inspiration.

No one is thinking about what will happen if the ipt is no longer there.

Does everyone realize that the upa is failing? No new tours, events etc. can be organized now. I was personally asked to help save the upa, but in it's present form, it is hopeless.

We can only sit back and watch. Our observations are all that we have to go on to form our opinions. You'd think that the ipt would consider adressing these issues. Afterall, for them to achieve success, the sponsors have to sell to someone, right?

RG

 

[Roy Steffensen]

You BELIEVE that the WPA demanded to much in sanction-fee, or do you KNOW? Big difference Blackjack....

To me it looks like you are a little mad because you aren't on the tour....

If the IPT succeeds and last for 2007 too, I think I will write a "I told ya"-speech

 

[jay helfert]

I want to thank everyone for their responses on this thread. This has been a healthy discussion about the IPT, and has opened my eyes to the varying points of view.

From day one I wanted to see the IPT succeed and went out of my way to thank Kevin and Deno for their efforts. To see a viable professional pool tour has been a dream of mine for many years. And I would be first to applaud whoever made this a reality. When Barry Hearn took over the World Pool Championships and made it a major worldwide television event, I thought that was a terrific thing for our sport.

Unfortunately the events of the last six months have caused me to change my point of view about the IPT. What some on here catagorize as "growing pains" are to me warning signs. And the most recent events in Reno opened old wounds for me. Unsrupulous promoters have long plagued this industry. To have the players wait until Sunday to receive their checks and then to be stiffed was the final straw.

By the way, I have watched several IPT shows on the OLN network and gave it mostly favorable reviews. And the venue at the Venetian was first class in all respects. The field of players is superb and the level of competition is the highest. These are not the problems.

Like many of you, I see each IPT event as a plus for our sport. As long as everyone gets paid, that is. When it is reported that players are receiving their checks, I for one, will feel much better. I guess that is the bottom line here.

 

[Blackjack]

You BELIEVE that the WPA demanded to much in sanction-fee, or do you KNOW? Big difference Blackjack....

To me it looks like you are a little mad because you aren't on the tour....

If the IPT succeeds and last for 2007 too, I think I will write a "I told ya"-speech

The "your just sore cause you ain't a part of it" crap is lame, Roy. Thanks for addressing the issues that myself and others have brought up. FTR, I have been opposed to the IPT since day one and I have stuck to my guns and not budged. If it succeeds, more power to it. If it fails, it will be a very, very sad occurrence within the sport of pocket billiards and the consequences will be enormous.

As far as the WPA sanctioning, I pissed my pants laughing when a supposed billionaire cried and whined and complained about the amount of the WPA sanctioning fee. If he had all that money it would not have mattered to him.

Good luck with your speech.

 

[mnShooter]

Why on earth would KT pay the WPA anything? They don't own the players and he would gain nothing from giving them any money.

 

[onepocketchump]

I knew that someone would write this.

FWIW, I am not a newbie in the world of pool, and neither is Jay.

I have received this type of criticism before.

When the Camel Tour folded, I was one of the "naysayers" that was singled out as being partly responsible for supposedly creating a negative outlook on the tour for the indsutry and many players. The tour was a bad deal if you were not one of the top 10 players. By stating that publicly and by alerting the players and the pool playing public of the consequences of the financially lopsided payouts, I was accused of contaminating the positive outlook of pool and contaminating the loyalty of the players. I took many hits personally and profesionally for speaking out about that. One clown from Meucci actually got on RSB back in 1998 and chastised me publicly in that forum. At the time, The Camel Tour and professional pool sat in ruins. I was told that players like myself were ungrateful for all that Bob Meucci and Don Mackey had done for pool up to that point. LOL. These remarks were made due to my association wth the PCA, which was a viewed as a renegade organization. Yes, in the end the PCA failed. Its never fun when any tour folds. I would not wish that upon anybody, not even the IPT.

I am sure that the intention of Kevin Trudeau is to do something good for pool - on the surface. I have said all along that as 2007 approaches that the IPT would become his hot potato. I've heard he sold 49% of it to some European company (not verified) and I have heard that he has sold it to Stanley Ho (not verified). If the IPT is such a great thing, why is he trying to sell it to someone else? What exactly is he selling? Is he seling the tour, or is he selling the players? I'm still not sure what it is that he is selling.

Let's just say that the IPT goes terribly wrong and must close shop. What then happens to the players? Many have taken this tour into their hearts and they have attached dreams to the success that this tour is promising. Despite what others have implied in this forum, for the players I hope and pray that this tour succeeds and prospers.

There is one problem: This tour is spending more than it is making.

There is no way to stay afloat when you are shelling out millions in prize money and production costs and only raking in $30K per event - tops. I don't care what they are making in advertising revenue. That will not keep this tour's head above water. If KT had billions of dollars - I could see this lasting for a long time and I would not be concerned. However, I believe that when the WPA named their price for sanctioning to KT that he couldn't even cover that. They called his bluff and he folded like a cheap lawn chair.

I'm not a poker player (Jay is) I'm just a pool player. I know when someone does and doesn't have money. I have great instincts for that sort of thing. So does Jay, so does Randy Goldwater, and so does Don Purdy. None of us are stupid, and if labeling us as negative or as naysayers makes you feel better about yourself - go for it. Its not going to change the fact that the IPT business model is defective or non-existent.

If this thing was working out so well and if it is the money making machine that pool has been waiting for - then why is Kevin trying to unload it onto somebody else's shoulders? I know why. He cannot sustain the IPT at the current ratio of revenue vs expenditures. This is something that many of us realized more than a year ago. I just hope that whomever ends up owning the IPT after KT can provide the players with a certain future to go along with the big money.

If the IPT folds, no I won't be writing an "I told you so" speech. I won't have time for that. It will be up to people such as myself, Jay Helfert, Randy Goldwater, Charlie Williams, and others to put Humpty Dumpty together again.

"Folded like a cheap lawn chair"?????? Now that's funny. You're telling me the guy that has already paid out several million in prize money and produced four events beyond the magnitude of any other promoter to date couldn't pay the money the WPA was trying to EXTORT from him?

The truth is that you are doing nothing more than SPECULATING. The truth is that neither you nor Don, nor Randy nor any of us including Deno has any real idea how much money Kevin Trudeau has or does not have. Nor do we know how much access to cash that he has.

What you are doing is latching on to every possible negative thing you can and blowing it up.

You are nothing more than an armchair accountant. You have zero idea about how much Kevin has invested or earmarked for this tour. No one knows for sure except perhaps a few key people in Kevin's organization. I'd bet huge amounts that Deno Andrews doesn't know what the money situation is with Kevin Trudeau. Deno might know what is in the IPT bank account but I am positive he has no such access to Kevin Trudeau's accounts.

Go on and preach your gloom and doom from your moral pedastal. If the IPT succeeds or fails it will not be because of anything you did or said.

I at least put in my $30. Did you?

John

 

[ironman]

I want to thank everyone for their responses on this thread. This has been a healthy discussion about the IPT, and has opened my eyes to the varying points of view.

From day one I wanted to see the IPT succeed and went out of my way to thank Kevin and Deno for their efforts. To see a viable professional pool tour has been a dream of mine for many years. And I would be first to applaud whoever made this a reality. When Barry Hearn took over the World Pool Championships and made it a major worldwide television event, I thought that was a terrific thing for our sport.

Unfortunately the events of the last six months have caused me to change my point of view about the IPT. What some on here catagorize as "growing pains" are to me warning signs. And the most recent events in Reno opened old wounds for me. Unsrupulous promoters have long plagued this industry. To have the players wait until Sunday to receive their checks and then to be stiffed was a final straw.

By the way, I have watched several IPT shows on the OLN network and gave it mostly favorable reviews. And the venue at the Venetian was first class in all respects. The field of players is superb and the level of competition is the highest. These are not the problems.

Like many of you, I see each IPT event as a plus for our sport. As long as everyone gets paid, that is. When it is reported that players are receiving their checks, I for one, will feel much better. I guess that is the bottom line here.

Kinda funny, but, that usually is the bottom line, WHERE"S MY CHECK?

 

[Island Drive]

The "your just sore cause you ain't a part of it" crap is lame, Roy. Thanks for addressing the issues that myself and others have brought up. FTR, I have been opposed to the IPT since day one and I have stuck to my guns and not budged. If it succeeds, more power to it. If it fails, it will be a very, very sad occurrence within the sport of pocket billiards and the consequences will be enormous.

As far as the WPA sanctioning, I pissed my pants laughing when a supposed billionaire cried and whined and complained about the amount of the WPA sanctioning fee. If he had all that money it would not have mattered to him.

Good luck with your speech.

If they got WPA sanctioning it might of steered the KT express too much, plus they would of had to do a heck of allot more juggling with dates & up front sanctioning fees. Another association with their tentacles in his business could easily have slowed em up or??

 

[onepocketchump]

The "your just sore cause you ain't a part of it" crap is lame, Roy. Thanks for addressing the issues that myself and others have brought up. FTR, I have been opposed to the IPT since day one and I have stuck to my guns and not budged. If it succeeds, more power to it. If it fails, it will be a very, very sad occurrence within the sport of pocket billiards and the consequences will be enormous.

As far as the WPA sanctioning, I pissed my pants laughing when a supposed billionaire cried and whined and complained about the amount of the WPA sanctioning fee. If he had all that money it would not have mattered to him.

Good luck with your speech.

It is a grave misapprehension to think that money does not matter to wealthy people. It is quite apparent based on how people spend their money that wealthy people value it much more than poor people do. David, may I suggest to you that you read a book called "The Millionaire Mind" so that you can begin to understand why truly wealthy folks do not spend/invest in things of no value.

Is Bill Gates a nit if he doesn't give me the one million I want? The amount is insignifigant to him isn't it? Does it matter that what I will do with the money is going to be of no real value to him depsite the fact that I claim it will be?

Comments such as yours just reflect that you have little understanding of how the world really works.

John

 

[NYC cue dude]

onepocketchump, true, i hve no idea of how much money kt has or doesn't have. It would have never been an issue to me either, as it is evident that he HAS achieved some financial success in his life. I don't doubt that he is WEALTHY.

But I can't get it out of my mind why he would tellme to my FACE in late may that he sold 49% (truthfully, he may have said 51%, i don't remember) of the ipt for 50 MILLION dollars to a european company. He also told me (again, in front of many pro players) that he sold the european golf channel he said he owned for 100 MILLION dollars.

Last week he said he sold the ipt (was it the remaining percentage or was the first sale bs, or is it all BS), to mr ho for 150 MILLION dollars.

So, my math tells me he has since MAY made 300 MILLION dollars.So why the problemwith payroll?

Other peopleon this board may notknow anything about money, but i do. If it was so easy, i would take 6 million or so, run a few pool events and sell the business for 200 million dollars.

Beleive me, i know what it takes to start a business with nothing, and turn it into a 50 million dollar enterprise. I DID it.

Randy Goldwater

 

[macguy]

First of all I'll preface my remarks, by saying I only give a damn because of all the poolplayers I'm friends with. There are far more pressing concerns on the planet that trouble me much more than the future of the IPT.

That said, number one KT is no billionaire, not even close. You can't make that kind of money selling $69.95 widgets on TV. Sorry. Most of the legit billionaires in America did it thru Real Estate, Computer Technology, Oil, Entertainment and Retail Sales. He cannot and will not continue to keep the IPT afloat without investor capital or major sponsorship. He simply can't afford to.

The Qualifiers and the online sales of everything IPT related are simply a source of income. This income is gravely needed to pay the bills. Unfortunately it is not enough to sustain this tour. What we are seeing now is a reflection of that. I for one, do not think this is merely a matter of transfering funds from one account to another. It is far more serious than that. I believe they are scrambling to find the funds to pay out the $3,000,000 owed. From fairly reliable sources I am hearing that Thorsten Hohmann has not yet received his 350K from the earlier event in Vegas.

The IPT has no problem collecting $2,000 entry fees for the new round of Qualifiers for a December tournament. Yes, Qualifers in September for a tournament three months down the road. And a lot of them on tap too. Guess why? Correct! They need the money to pay off old debts, like prize money. Someone called this "Float". I call it "Save The Sinking Ship".

My hope is that all the players get paid, period. Someone else said on here that if the IPT fails, the players will probably get stiffed in their final event. He may be right. I just hope it wasn't Reno. My advice to all the players I know is simply this. Get what you can while you can, because there is NO guarantee of anything. Who can show me a written contract where KT guarantees anything? We all have seen how quickly the website can be altered.

Just call this my instinctive hunch based on everything that I have seen transpire so far. It's kind of like putting a "read" on someone in a poker game. And I have a "read" on the IPT. My business instincts tend to be pretty good, and have kept me out of trouble more than once. That is why I have chosen to no longer sponsor any players in Qualifiers, or even recommend that they play in them.

Many on here may not like me or what I have to say. I really don't care. I am and have been for years a "Watchdog" in the billiard industry. I am proud of my record for tournament promotion. Every dollar paid, every time! I have even gone in my pocket more than once to pay off prize funds. Show me one player who says I owe them money. You can't. Granted I never had a million dollar tournament, My biggest so far paid $160,000 in 1992. Not bad at the time. I ate if for 26k on that one.

I can remember way back in 1975 in Burlington, Iowa when the promoter was going South with a $25,000 prize fund. I blew the whistle on him and saved the players asses (and wallets). You can ask Jim Rempe and Larry Hubbart to verify that one. And I knew early on that Don Mackey was up to no good. He tried to hijack me. I warned the players but most went for his line of BS. And paid the price. What happened with my dear friend Barry Behrman really floored me. I have implored him to pay all he owes more than once. In the billiard industry all we have is our good name.

I hope I am wrong this time and the IPT succeeds and the players make the big bucks they deserve. But I wouldn't bet on it.

This was just announced 9/11

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060911/dcm020.html?.v=61

Kevin is off in new directions now, and he should be. He is again hyping his book on TV after not doing anything with it for months, maybe distracted by the IPT. I think the IPT was a lark and has now became a losing venture and major distraction from his other more lucrative interests and a stone around his neck. He seems to have gotten out of it with this Mr. Ho guy and although he said the IPT may have a value of 150 million, he most likely got out from under somewhere around even and is probably happy to have been able to do that. As far as the future of the IPT, all bets are off.

It most likely will move overseas and the stable of player system "The chosen 150" will go by the wayside probably replaced by open 9 ball tournaments on everyday equipment. This is not nay saying it just makes more sense. I listened to the speech on the web site before the last tournament and it was very funny in that after all the cheer leading and BS, "Ratings through the roof" crap, at the very end he adds "Oh, and by the way I don't own the IPT anymore, but will be around for 5 years as bla bla bla". "WHAT, wait a minute, what did he say" ? What is the most important announcement, in fact nothing else in the speech even matters anymore he just glosses over like it is nothing.

NOTHING, he just announced that everything all the players have worked for and put their lives on hold for and are dreaming about is now completely up in the air, and he mentions it like it is an after thought, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain". Just the way he made that announcement sounds like he is trying to pull something or at least is not being completely honest with the players that have put their trust in him. I am sure he has a pretty good idea of what the future of the IPT will be, but don't expect him to tell the players the truth.

Many of these players who have nothing going for them have actually bought into this thing hook line and sinker and if they have managed to convince themselves they are going to be rich I hope they don't go to the gas pipe over this. I would say at this point, no tournaments, at least in the current form will happen in 2007.

There may be some kind of tour or a few open tournaments, and that's a good thing, but players getting salaries, $25,000 appearance fees, what a joke that is, and the $100,000 guarantees I am sure is history. With the silly business model Kevin dreamed up scraped, it could be the beginning of a real good thing with nice open tournaments and good prize funds and Kevin certainly deserves credit for starting it.

It took me a while to get all caught up, I have been living in a barn in the woods working on the new house. I will be out of here again on Monday but wanted to make some observations.