My thoughts on conventional shaft vs. low deflection shaft

i'm using LD shaft from Predator from 2008 until now. But in 2009, most times I switched to my "not so LD" one piece shaft. Theres a advantage and disadvantage using both type of shaft, IMO the feel is more better using a one piece shaft and more better using with 1-2 tip of high english (even draw sometimes on smaller diameter is not produce much spin as a 314). In other side IMO LD shaft (splice shaft like a pred) is more accurate when using english, but it is not so low deflect when using high english.

Some guy using a high one because it's become a nature to them to compensate, and that type of guy IMO is the best one to use any cue (throw any cue and look that they capable to switch very easily). But my little brother (who play with LD shaft since the beginning) is rising very quickly, because he doesn't bother to compensate a lot when using english. But he is just good to draw, but sometimes missed when using high and if he doesn't use his cue, he is like drop 3 level of play.

IMO some deflection is good but not too many, using a Hybrid Pro 2 or WD 700 (LD production shaft) is giving more feel for me, unless you have a custom cue maker to make you one.

About the predator jump, it help me a lot to teach some people to jump, but not the best one around (in my country).
 
line drive vs line drive

I just would like to add that the weather and cloth condition has as much to do with the deflection than almost anything else - try playing pool outdoors and practicing one of your favorite spin shots vs a controlled environment. It would be a huge advantage to have say an OB-1 for playing conditions such as dry heat and new cloth that still has the nap.

However the other end of the spectrum is to play with a cue that is heavy towards the front end and a hard ferrule such as ivory under extreme wet conditions (near a swamp, while it's raining, and with the door open) - then you can go and compete with either talcom powder or a glove and the heavy front end won't matter as much as the conditions would be wet and old cloth.

All in all you will still get a little more deflection from the ivory ferrule. In summary I would like to add that if anyone thinks they can play world class pool on a brand new cloth and dry conditions with a forward balanced cue and ivory ferrules then they have become very good at aiming to miss.

I would prefer to compete with the ob-1 cue on either, ok Broyce I hope that can get me an extra shaft - ha ha. No seriously the ob-1 or any shaft that has been bored out to make it more light weight would be my choice as this helps me find the elusive center of the white ball a little easier. For anyone looking for a low deflection shaft - tiger products makes a good cue and so does Broyce with ob-1. So does predator but I just don't like the name for personal reasons.
 
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salam4 said:
I noticed quite a few threads about deflection recently so I decided to write this review on my thoughts on switching to a low deflection shaft. I played with a conventional shaft for about 5 years, recently switched over to the 314.
[snip]
Overall it's obvious that you can become a great player with a conventional shaft or a low deflection shaft. Try it for yourself and see what you think. I think the part that I really like about the low deflection shaft is when I am forced to shoot a high speed inside english shot. I feel I am much more accurate with my predator shaft.
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Salam, I just saw this post of yours (somewhat late), and I like the objective approach you took to this subject. Don't worry about the narrow minded arguments of some responses by the usual 'know-it-all' types. Many of them probably didn't even read your post properly (or understand it!).
In my opinion you expressed your view conservatively and without prejudice.
Needless to say you have my agreement.
 
I was just thinking of this last night when I was playing. I shot with a LD shaft (OB-1) for a couple years and never thought I'd go back to a "regular" shaft, however, I have to say, after switching cues to my new Kikel, I had forgotten how much I miss the feel of a solid maple shaft. I have to say, the OB is back in the case.
 
DrGonzo said:
I was just thinking of this last night when I was playing. I shot with a LD shaft (OB-1) for a couple years and never thought I'd go back to a "regular" shaft, however, I have to say, after switching cues to my new Kikel, I had forgotten how much I miss the feel of a solid maple shaft. I have to say, the OB is back in the case.
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Just out of curiosity - which feature of the OB shaft do you feel contributes most to any low deflection?
 
I picked up my buddy's old meucci after playing with an OB2 for years.
Couldn't make a ball and I can't say I felt anything special about the "hit".

I suspect when people say "I love the feel of maple" what they really mean is
"I love the feel of cues that remind me of the old cue I shot with for many years,
and don't enjoy cues that feel different".
 
Alfred said:
Just out of curiosity - which feature of the OB shaft do you feel contributes most to any low deflection?
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The only "feature" that can reduce cue ball deflection (AKA "squirt") for any shaft is reduced endmass (i.e., having the shaft be as light as possible in the 6-8 inches closest to the tip. This can be done by drilling out the end of the shaft, using a smaller and/or lighter ferrule, using a smaller/lighter/harder tip, and turning down the diameter of the shaft near the tip. For more info, see:

low squirt (low deflection or LD) shaft resource page
shaft endmass resource page
advantages of low-squirt shafts
disadvantages of low-squirt shafts

I hope that helps,
Dave
 
CreeDo said:
I picked up my buddy's old meucci after playing with an OB2 for years.
Couldn't make a ball and I can't say I felt anything special about the "hit".

I suspect when people say "I love the feel of maple" what they really mean is
"I love the feel of cues that remind me of the old cue I shot with for many years,
and don't enjoy cues that feel different".
Click to expand...

I guess I'm going to have to disgree with this. I shot with my OB for longer than I shot with a conventional shaft, but after getting this cue with well made, conventional maple, I can honestly say I genuinely prefer this hit to anything low deflection....and as far as LD goes, OB is by far my favorite.
 
dr_dave said:
The only "feature" that can reduce cue ball deflection (AKA "squirt") for any shaft is reduced endmass (i.e., having the shaft be as light as possible in the 6-8 inches closest to the tip. This can be done by drilling out the end of the shaft, using a smaller and/or lighter ferrule, using a smaller/lighter/harder tip, and turning down the diameter of the shaft near the tip. For more info, see:

low squirt (low deflection or LD) shaft resource page
shaft endmass resource page
advantages of low-squirt shafts
disadvantages of low-squirt shafts

I hope that helps,
Dave
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting this, Dave! I didn't want to try to explain the physics behind it!
 
DrGonzo said:
I guess I'm going to have to disgree with this. I shot with my OB for longer than I shot with a conventional shaft, but after getting this cue with well made, conventional maple, I can honestly say I genuinely prefer this hit to anything low deflection....and as far as LD goes, OB is by far my favorite.
Click to expand...
There are many things besides the amount of squirt that determines how a hit feels. For more info, see the "feel," "hit," "feedback," and "playability" resource page.

Regards,
Dave
 
dr_dave said:
There are many things besides the amount of squirt that determines how a hit feels. For more info, see the "feel," "hit," "feedback," and "playability" resource page.

Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...

Yep, it's all just personal preference, and once you adjust for the deflection it becomes subconcious. All I know is that I greatly prefer the conventional shafts over the LD...although I've heard the OB classics play fairly similar.

btw, Dave, I'm up 1 - 1.5 balls in 10 ball ghost play since I first took Billiard U:thumbup:
 
DrGonzo said:
btw, Dave, I'm up 1 - 1.5 balls in 10 ball ghost play since I first took Billiard U:thumbup:
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Please consider taking the BU exams again so we can see how much you can improve with practice. I plan to do this myself soon. Please post any new scores (and an updated 10-ball ghost score) on the BU thread.

Thanks,
Dave
 
DrGonzo said:
I guess I'm going to have to disgree with this. I shot with my OB for longer than I shot with a conventional shaft, but after getting this cue with well made, conventional maple, I can honestly say I genuinely prefer this hit to anything low deflection....and as far as LD goes, OB is by far my favorite.
Click to expand...

Well, I could be off the mark :)
Maybe it's not so much the length of time as the fact that maple
was the shaft you grew up with or developed with.

I just never saw someone with a particular attachment to maple or
high deflection shafts, unless they spent a lot of time already on it.
But then it's hard to find people who never played on one.

My first real cue (unless you count a $100 player) had a predator shaft
and when I hit with maple, it does feel stiffer and sound different,
but that different feel isn't worth it to me, when the tradeoff is more deflection.
Having the ball squirt so far off to the side drives me nuts.
Then again maybe I just like the LD cuz I developed most of my game with it.
 
CreeDo said:
Well, I could be off the mark :)
Maybe it's not so much the length of time as the fact that maple
was the shaft you grew up with or developed with.

I just never saw someone with a particular attachment to maple or
high deflection shafts, unless they spent a lot of time already on it.
But then it's hard to find people who never played on one.

My first real cue (unless you count a $100 player) had a predator shaft
and when I hit with maple, it does feel stiffer and sound different,
but that different feel isn't worth it to me, when the tradeoff is more deflection.
Having the ball squirt so far off to the side drives me nuts.
Then again maybe I just like the LD cuz I developed most of my game with it.
Click to expand...

For me, and this is only for me, if LD shafts were NO deflection, it would be worth giving up the feel - no questions, but since I have to adjust no matter what, I'm more than happy to adjust a little more and keep the solid feel.

I didnt really grow up playing pool, except a few games with my dad every now and then, so my first "real" experience with heavy doses of pool came with my OB.
 
dr_dave said:
Please consider taking the BU exams again so we can see how much you can improve with practice. I plan to do this myself soon. Please post any new scores (and an updated 10-ball ghost score) on the BU thread.

Thanks,
Dave
Click to expand...

The wife is back at the end of August. I plan to retake the BU exam and 10 ball ghost test a little bit before then.
 
DrGonzo said:
Yep, it's all just personal preference, and once you adjust for the deflection it becomes subconcious. All I know is that I greatly prefer the conventional shafts over the LD...although I've heard the OB classics play fairly similar.

btw, Dave, I'm up 1 - 1.5 balls in 10 ball ghost play since I first took Billiard U:thumbup:
Click to expand...

I have an OB Classic & a McDermott i2. As you say, after the squirt adjustment I can't tell them from a regular shaft as far as feel is concerned. they are both very solid. I have only had them both for a year. I have always had regular shafts before & have always hit almost every shot with english. I really like both of these shafts.

I had also picked up a sanded down Predator CAT shaft that was nearly impossible to get it to squirt without the swerve bringing it back & even across the line so much so that I could not use it for full table shots. I know it had squirt but you would be hard pressed to prove it. The squirt swerve ratio was well in favor of the swerve. I loved it in close quarters but I did not like it on harder hit long shots. The shaft was just too 'whippy'.


Regards,
Rick
 
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I've never tried an LD. Shaft, one reason is that I like a very long pro taper. I can't stand feeling the shaft getting thicker through my stroke.

I never spend big bucks on shafts either, because the first thing I do with a new shaft is spin it on my home made lathe, and make it 12.75 to 12.5 twenty inches back.

My question is, if I did buy one of these LD shafts, how would it be affected by lengthening the pro taper an additional 8 inches or so?
 
3andstop said:
I've never tried an LD. Shaft, one reason is that I like a very long pro taper. I can't stand feeling the shaft getting thicker through my stroke.

I never spend big bucks on shafts either, because the first thing I do with a new shaft is spin it on my home made lathe, and make it 12.75 to 12.5 twenty inches back.

My question is, if I did buy one of these LD shafts, how would it be affected by lengthening the pro taper an additional 8 inches or so?
Click to expand...

Most of the LD shafts are 12.75 & 11.75. The 12.75 are pro taper at about 15 inches or more. The 11.75 shafts usually are conical taper but they are starting out smaller.

If you'll read my earlier post about the juiced, sanded down, 314 Cat shaft that might give you an idea. Basically sanding them down should increase the LD properties.

Regards,
Rick

PS Lucasi has a 11.75 with a pro taper.
 
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