My view on how low Pro payouts are..

[hejests]

Didn't even get through more than 2 sentences of your response.. Here goes..

JESUS ****ING CHRIST! HOW MANY TIMES do I have to say I could give two s***s how many balls a pro can put in a pocket?

I just want ALL pros to ACCEPT how life is and either ACCEPT what it is they are destined to earn as a player or CHANGE things!

That's IT! There's nothing more to it!

There's NO ulterior motive!

I just don't like people whining about their lives IN GENERAL!

I resent the fact that some pro players allude to the fact that pool is broke! It's not broke! It is what it is!

Quit trying to psycho-analyze me!

Russ

First off, I sincerely doubt anyone is alluding to the fact that pool is broke, I think they're down right asserting that fact. Pool, as compared to it's peer sports is broke. That isn't the figment of someone's imagination, that's a reality. Perhaps in your worldview sports and games shouldn't provide large payouts. That doesn't however change the fact that in this reality sports and games do provide large payouts (pool not inclusive). Having said that, a pro player has every right to complain about the payouts because comparatively speaking it's very poor compensation. There's no professional in any field who would simply shut up and accept poor comparative compensation. It doesn't happen in banking (my field), it doesn't happen in law, it certainly doesn't happen in any popular sports (think baseball and hockey strikes) and there's no reason it should happen in pool.

The evolution of a sport into a well organized, smoothly running viable business venture (from the player's perspective) is a slow and painful process. That process starts with voicing dissatisfaction with the status quo. If you're expecting pro players to instantaneously change the status quo or stop complaining about it, you're completely out to lunch.

Changes take time and a whole lot of complaining to materialize themselves. Like most any other sport's payout evolution, it starts with player grumblings, those grumblings turn into full fledged complaints, those complaints lead to discussions, those discussions in turn lead to player organization... and the rest is history.

Now as for your "choice" elitism, grow up. Sports, games, the arts they all make up an important part of the human experience. They serve to partially to distract us from the everyday grind but mostly to inspire us. Greatness, perfection and beauty is extremely contagious and very motivating. Anyone who can do something (anything) exquisitely well deserves respect, regardless of what they earn.

Not only do we all have the right to make our own choices, but we have the right not to be heckled for the choices we make. That courtesy extends to everyone, pro pool players and university grads alike.

Serge

 

[Russ Chewning]

again i type awful and slow but here goes.when i first got into pool it had the camel tour and guys were making nice money.now i realize things are in a funk right now and that sucks.i get up everyday and im thankful for what i have .pool has been good to me even though i chose to play a very small amount of tourneys the last 3 years.at any rate i guess my point is i dont think im some kind of genius or superman,or superior human to everybody because im good at pool.i just use pool to survive and do the best i can in life,i do think its a great game and i thank god im healthy enough to play it well, just like the other guys on tour.if everybody got to know the players on tour as well as i know them ,you would be surprised at how good of people most of them are.in closing i want to thank everybody for sticking up for me and the other players against guys like russ chewning.now russ honestly you have been brutal to me and i got a little defensive and got brutal on you to.in a nut shell we both like pool and we could maybe be friends someday.for now just remember im doing the best i can and so are the other players so please dont be so quick to think we are broke stupid whiny pieces of crap because we are just squirells trying to get a nut like everybody else.

John,

I guess I just overreacted to your comments about bar pool, and ever since then, we've been at each other's throats. Maybe we should both just cool it for a while. If I make it to DCC next year, I'll take you out to dinner..

Russ

 

[ScottW]

If I make it to DCC next year, I'll take you out to dinner.

FOOOOOD FIIIIIIIIGHT!

 

[Tim-n-NM]

John,

I guess I just overreacted to your comments about bar pool, and ever since then, we've been at each other's throats. Maybe we should both just cool it for a while. If I make it to DCC next year, I'll take you out to dinner..

Russ

Thats what I'm talking about.... Now lets all have a group hug and move on.

 

[gpeezy]

one thing that would help payouts

if everyone that enjoyed watching pool would go to tournys it would increase payouts.pool does have a lot of spectators.people bring money.back in "i think" the early 1900s pool used to have more people attending a tournament than any other sport in the country.more people showing intrest=more money for companies to make off the game.maybe the ipt can change gears and make pool rise to the surface a little.

 

[supergreenman]

again i type awful and slow but here goes.when i first got into pool it had the camel tour and guys were making nice money.now i realize things are in a funk right now and that sucks.i get up everyday and im thankful for what i have .pool has been good to me even though i chose to play a very small amount of tourneys the last 3 years.at any rate i guess my point is i dont think im some kind of genius or superman,or superior human to everybody because im good at pool.i just use pool to survive and do the best i can in life,i do think its a great game and i thank god im healthy enough to play it well, just like the other guys on tour.if everybody got to know the players on tour as well as i know them ,you would be surprised at how good of people most of them are.in closing i want to thank everybody for sticking up for me and the other players against guys like russ chewning.now russ honestly you have been brutal to me and i got a little defensive and got brutal on you to.in a nut shell we both like pool and we could maybe be friends someday.for now just remember im doing the best i can and so are the other players so please dont be so quick to think we are broke stupid whiny pieces of crap because we are just squirells trying to get a nut like everybody else.

As always class shines through. John you seem to be a down to earth kinda guy. Thanks for taking the high road.

 

[LAMas]

More people would go to tourneys if...

if everyone that enjoyed watching pool would go to tournys it would increase payouts.pool does have a lot of spectators.people bring money.back in "i think" the early 1900s pool used to have more people attending a tournament than any other sport in the country.more people showing intrest=more money for companies to make off the game.maybe the ipt can change gears and make pool rise to the surface a little.

I agree that larger paid attendance would help increase the purse. I remember 20 years ago Jay Helfert would advertise his L. A. Open Tourney
in both local papers in the Sports or Enterainment Section and he drew a decent crowd. Keith Mc Cready drew a following of Hollywood types that added to the glits.

Contrast that to the IPT with no advertising save the Trades and for a piddling $20.00 you could attend and watch every day except for the finals and yet there were but a few sweaters - probably friends and family.

When someone got knocked out you could bet that his fans would not return. I know that there are many sweaters that would attend tourneys if they knew about them ahead of time or even at the last minute.

The tourneys at the Bicycle Club during the Camel Tour Era would draw News Crews with Films at Eleven etc..

Advertising to draw a larger following would increase revenue, but at what cost?

 

[justnum]

I was sweating a few major tourneys and I wanted to meet the players.

I did but communication barrier made it difficult to joke around.

 

[uwate]

John Schmidt you have alot of class. Kudos to you for staying diplomatic in the face of such drivel from Russ Chewning. Russ usually argues points where there is a good point, he just can't seem to make the point without having to insult anyone who tells him he might be wrong.

 

[Jaden]

This is Incredible

First, let me apologize for not posting in a while. I enjoyed it except for the few idiots who like to antagonize people who love the sport and want it to do well.

John, we met back when you were still in San Diego and are friends with a lot of the same people. Dan Wallace, Vic, etc....

I've been doing a lot of thinking here recently about why pool isn't as successful as other sports and whenever the subject comes up, people are always saying it's the seedy rep or that there aren't enough players.

Well there are so many casual players that there being not enough players is a joke, and I don't think that it is about the seedy rep either.

I think that it is the level of play and the way that televised pool is setup doesn't help this.

At the highest level of pool there is very little difference between the best and the worst and it can change from day to day, but that's not what does it. I think that it is just that play is so advanced at the pro level of pool that the willing suspension of disbelief inherent in other sports is impossible.

What is it about football or baseball or basketball or golf that makes people enjoy watching it. Golf is easily just as boring as pool if not more so and there are just as few people who understand the intracacies of the game. It is that there are mistakes all the time and the mistakes are showcased. This allows people watching to delude themselves into believing they could beat the pros eventhough they would in actuality have no shot in hell.

In pool, the pro's are at a level where the average player couldn't possibly even begin to believe that they could compete at that level and the televised matches are edited to get RID OF the bad shots not to shocase them. Maybe some A- level and higher amateur players can convince themselves that on a good day they could beat a pro on their bad day, but the average player? No WAY!!!!!

I think that it is this more than anything that makes pool interest on tv and therefore, sponsor interest wane.

This is also why people like the guy who started this thread go off on pro pool players not making much money. They know enough to know they could never compete at that level so they want to downplay the level of dedication and plain ability that it took to get to that level.

I remember playing at the swanee memorial in 2006 and I won my first match against phil faretti, who was a good player, and then played Santos Sambajon in the second match. I was playing him and missed a ball on the break. He ran out and then when breaking the second game, he knocked the Cue off the table. I got ball in hand and ran out. I looked up and saw that Ernesto Dominguez had been watching me play while in a match on a table next to ours and had an expression on his face like "who is this guy, and why don't I know him?". That was one of the best feelings I've ever had. I haven't been able to dedicate my life to pool, unfortunately in my opinion, up to this point, but if I get the opportunity, I'm going to take it, and I DO have a family to support.

I could go on and on about what is wrong with pool and some of the people I've seen on this board and I know there are people on this board that just don' like me at all, but you know what? All I've tried to do on this board is help out beginners and chat about pool. For all of those out there that just want to rain on avid pool players parade. STFU and find something better to do.

I'll admit that I was a supporter of the IPT and it now looks like it is going under possibly because of the new anti online gambling law, but that doesn't make all the nay sayers right. It only makes them look more desperate to find meaning in their cattle like lives. It may mean that people like me who would like to see pool succeed and those people who are at a level in a sport almost unobtainable in any other sport make a decent living are desperate to see something that we love pay off a little better, but you know what? That is something called hope, and I'll take hope over pessimism any day of the week.

One last thing and then I'll get off of my soap box. After I got out of the navy I could've used my money from the gibill and college fund to support my goal of becoming a pro pool player and I may be able to even still, but I made the choice of doing what I need to to support a family and I will have no regrets. I doubt that many of the people who chose that road less traveled will have any either.

 

[PKM]

In pool, the pro's are at a level where the average player couldn't possibly even begin to believe that they could compete at that level and the televised matches are edited to get RID OF the bad shots not to shocase them. Maybe some A- level and higher amateur players can convince themselves that on a good day they could beat a pro on their bad day, but the average player? No WAY!!!!!

I don't know, I think the pros on TV might give the opposite impression. Their position play is usually so good that they make it look easy. Of course at least semi-experienced players know that such consistency and precision is not easy to come by.

 

[buzzsaw]

I don't know, I think the pros on TV might give the opposite impression. Their position play is usually so good that they make it look easy. Of course at least semi-experienced players know that such consistency and precision is not easy to come by.

I agree, I think it's made to look so easy that there is not a lot of skill required. However, anyone that really knows the game thinks otherwise.

 

[Big Perm]

I've only read about 1/3 of the responses, so this may have already been mentioned......

Big Money = TV, and everything that comes with it......you need to showcase amazing feats, strategy, entertainment, attraction, fun, sex, competition, aggression....as well as a number of other things that will draw someones attention and make them stop...

First, get rid of the blue felt and the dull backgrounds....get something that draws attention to your eye as your surfing channels....post up some stats, something like at the bottom of ESPN 2....if you haven't been watching, info at the bottom will keep you interested and up to date if you haven't been watching...

Second, you gotta go for it.....people like the occasional safety and can appreciate a smart move every now and then, but they wanna see stuff that is above their ability - awesome, aggressive breaks, masse, jump shots, and trick shots they have never seen.....you'll shoot plenty of shots that they made at the pool hall last night - give them the stuff they didn't see....

Third, most guys I know have a basketball or football glory story, and watching reminds them of those days.....most guys that suck at pool don't play that often, never did play alot, and have no memories to draw on....

Fourth, sex....TV ratings go up when hotties play....Tennis and Sharapova/Kornikova, Golf and Scott/Woods, V-ball and all the hotties in bikini.....guys wanna see either other guys they can emulate or hot chicas....although it's tough to catch, I used to enjoy seeing Jeanette Lee on the TV, and I'd bet she improved ratings....

Announcers....sports highlights used to blow, not ESPN brings the funnae....get edgy, bring real insight, interest, and some fun to the game....watching matches on TV is like watching paint dry......TV is not even close to being there, watching a great match, even at the local pool hall.....granted, TV also isn't as good as being at Daytona , but the TV also offers more stats, better views, and a ton of other stuff.....

My two cents...

 

[DelaWho???]

If you really want to get pool going for the future, you need to have youth programs that encourage kids to play the sport. As another poster mentioned, many guys watch sports to relive glory days of playing insert sport here....Of course this doesn't always work. Look at soccer great youth programs and school programs through the collegiate level, and it's popular too. Then you look at soccer as a pro sport in the USA and it looks alot like pool....

McCue Banger McCue