My X-Shaft warped, no warranty!
- Thread starter ABall
- Start date
cueaddicts said:
Yes and no. The quality of the wood itself becomes slightly less important, but the quality of the glues, resins, core (If any) and the selection, cutting and assembly of the laminate layers becomes very critical. As you can see, a lot more things to get right which always means a lot more things that can go wrong.
In engineering I can't think off the top of my head of any other similar consumer-level products that use such complex lamination techniques on long thin sections of material. Generally lamination is used for simple flat products that require high strength but not high tolerences.
Having said all that I just got an OB-1 and so far I love it!
Kelly_Guy said:
From the Viking website:
http://www.vikingcue.com/pages/support/warranty.html
Viking Lifetime Warranty
Viking cues are meticulously handcrafted in the U.S.A. from the finest materials and subject to the strictest quality control standards to bring you the best cue in the industry.
Viking Cue Mfg., Inc. warrants against warpage and all components of the cue for the life of the product, but excludes replaceable parts such as the tip, ferrule, finish, wrap, and bumper. Viking cues covered by this warranty will be repaired or replaced without charge.
A shaft that stays straight over time, no matter who made it, is not the "norm," it is an exception to the rules. Wood does weird things and is one of the most imperfect materials you can work with. If you have not ever made a shaft or a cue, try sometime.
You have to draw the line at some point with customer service so BOTH parties involved are treated fairly. Is it fair to just give out shafts just because of bad publicity? Making a scene at a trade show is not cool. How is that fair?
I warranty my shafts for 30 days. After that, IF there is warpage, I will split it with the customer. It doesn't happen often but when it does, no one complains. Seems fair to me.
McDermott's, Viking, etc, warranties are only valid to the ORIGINAL purchaser and you need PROOF. Fill out the registration cards or go online and register your cue. Keep you receipts! These are not unconditional warranties but are the best in the business.
Just my 2 cents.
You have to draw the line at some point with customer service so BOTH parties involved are treated fairly. Is it fair to just give out shafts just because of bad publicity? Making a scene at a trade show is not cool. How is that fair?
I warranty my shafts for 30 days. After that, IF there is warpage, I will split it with the customer. It doesn't happen often but when it does, no one complains. Seems fair to me.
McDermott's, Viking, etc, warranties are only valid to the ORIGINAL purchaser and you need PROOF. Fill out the registration cards or go online and register your cue. Keep you receipts! These are not unconditional warranties but are the best in the business.
Just my 2 cents.
I agree....it sure seemed alot of Tiger bashers popped up all of the sudden...one warped shaft isn't going to turn me off from buying something from them....Mystick Cue Fan said:
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Flex said:
First McDermott, then Viking, that's great. Now I also understand that Meucci has jumped on board and guarantees warpage.
Chris
Ps. Tiger Products has exceptional customer service. Corey is a very responsible individual and I trust him to deal with these matters in an appropriate fashion.
??????
A few Questions:
Is Aball the original owner?
Has the shaft ever been sanded on without being resealed?
Has it ever been in a cloth case an put in bind? (like things piled on top)
Mistreating wood is a treacherous game at best. I owned a Black Boar
for four yrs sold it was perfectly straight 2 yrs. later saw the new owner
one shaft was crooked. Go figure! If in fact if X shafts are going crooked by the numbers it won't take long for everybody to have them figured. Its
probably to early to make a judgement.
Pinocchio
A few Questions:
Is Aball the original owner?
Has the shaft ever been sanded on without being resealed?
Has it ever been in a cloth case an put in bind? (like things piled on top)
Mistreating wood is a treacherous game at best. I owned a Black Boar
for four yrs sold it was perfectly straight 2 yrs. later saw the new owner
one shaft was crooked. Go figure! If in fact if X shafts are going crooked by the numbers it won't take long for everybody to have them figured. Its
probably to early to make a judgement.
Pinocchio
Craig Fales said:
I'm not exactly a basher. I may well consider buying some of their other products some time in the future. However, shelling out $200 for a high tech type shaft that won't be covered by any kind of warranty for warpage (especially considering there are competing products that have such a warranty) is something of a non-starter for me.
BTW, Craig, are you sure this is the first time this sort of problem has developed with X-Shafts?
I hope it's one of perhaps just a very few that have warped. However, if it is an ongoing problem, word of it will get around, as word got around about Meucci's problems. And if that becomes the case, for Tiger's sake, and for the consumer's sake too, I hope they improve their warranty to cover warpage as well.
When that happens, IMHO, it will be good for everybody involved.
Flex
That wasn't directed just at you but as stated in another post all of the sudden there's all these people that say they won't buy a Tiger shaft and bla bla bla...I think there alot of people that like to ***** whenever they opportunity arises...I do hope that this doesn't become an issue with Tiger as I've been considering using their partials on some of my cues...
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Craig Fales said:
While there have been some people who have said they won't be buying an X- Shaft, it wouldn't surprise me one bit to find out that if Tiger's warranty were improved that those same people would very likely consider buying one. I sure would. Turns out I'm in the market right now for another shaft, probably a Predator Z shaft. There are competitors to that shaft, and before I sink a substantial chunk of change in one, I'm going to do my homework and try to hit some balls with the contenders. Seems to me it would make marketing sense for Tiger to develop something along the lines of a Z shaft that would favorably compare to it, in every way, including the warranty. If Tiger brings their warranty up to snuff, as Viking did, guess who'll consider their shaft? Me, that's who.
On the other hand, if nothing changes, perhaps more than a few people will spend their money elsewhere. This thread already has more than 875 views. How many people read all this but haven't posted their opinions?
I hope Tiger sees the light.
Flex
Just some thoughts...
I know I'm new but this seems as good a time as any to jump in.
It seems that whenever the warranty practices of a well liked cue company (on the forums at least - I don't frequent many and never followed whos "in") are mentioned people start hounding them. "Why arent you giving stuff away?" seems to be the gernal vibe I get. I understand this forum is a community in and of itself and a lot of members look out for each other but when the warranty practices called into question are ultimately standard across the board save for 2-3 companies amongst the masses (Meucci - according to the website - doesnt even cover their shafts for warping, butts on the other hand are) it is disheartening to see people turn on that company. I noticed this not too long ago here when an individual was looking to purchase the rubber bumper for their used xbreaker. Now, I could understand why people would question the reason he couldn't buy one directly through them (and even then this can be explained since some companys only sell to distribuitors) but when the warranty information was given people were going on regarding why the warranty isnt transferrable giving the same spiel they are now: "well I was considering buying one but now I won't." Now, this incident with Tiger arises where there are so many variables that can come into play as to why a shaft would warp and again people are siding against the warranty policies saying "give stuff away", and "I dont want to buy one now" nevermind the fact that most of the aftermarket/production shafts they currently have in their case follows the same warranty procedure.
If there were multiple complaints about Tiger shafts warping I would assume then it would be looked into and possibly covered under the warranty as a manufacturers defect since it very well could be an error in the production in a case like that. But with one idividual it is hard to determine what caused it to warp...
I know I'm new but this seems as good a time as any to jump in.
It seems that whenever the warranty practices of a well liked cue company (on the forums at least - I don't frequent many and never followed whos "in") are mentioned people start hounding them. "Why arent you giving stuff away?" seems to be the gernal vibe I get. I understand this forum is a community in and of itself and a lot of members look out for each other but when the warranty practices called into question are ultimately standard across the board save for 2-3 companies amongst the masses (Meucci - according to the website - doesnt even cover their shafts for warping, butts on the other hand are) it is disheartening to see people turn on that company. I noticed this not too long ago here when an individual was looking to purchase the rubber bumper for their used xbreaker. Now, I could understand why people would question the reason he couldn't buy one directly through them (and even then this can be explained since some companys only sell to distribuitors) but when the warranty information was given people were going on regarding why the warranty isnt transferrable giving the same spiel they are now: "well I was considering buying one but now I won't." Now, this incident with Tiger arises where there are so many variables that can come into play as to why a shaft would warp and again people are siding against the warranty policies saying "give stuff away", and "I dont want to buy one now" nevermind the fact that most of the aftermarket/production shafts they currently have in their case follows the same warranty procedure.
If there were multiple complaints about Tiger shafts warping I would assume then it would be looked into and possibly covered under the warranty as a manufacturers defect since it very well could be an error in the production in a case like that. But with one idividual it is hard to determine what caused it to warp...
I think that your wrong,i mean i wouldnt waste the space on the forum if i wasnt speaking what i mean.I was considering a Tiger shaft because i hear they are just as good as Predator and that the Sniper tips are just as good if not better then a Moori,but why take a chance with a backless product?I had a Predator and it was great but the Tiger shaft seems to be a bit cheaper and i have heard good things but this company seems to have no spine.Maybe i will go with a McDermott I shaft or something.You say it wont hurt there business but your wrong,it will hurt them,there might be 5 to 10 right here,and then they tell 10 people and so on and so forth and then they lost sales,word of mouth has more power then you think.Mystick Cue Fan said:
How warped is warped
Question:
How Warped is Warped?
I personally have seen a couple of my preds (I have 4) develop a 1/32" wobble and then settle to nothing again. It's wood. Temp, Humidity, Full Moon. All these play a little in the overall dynamics of a cue. Are you sure it's not in the joint?
regards,
Nick
Question:
How Warped is Warped?
I personally have seen a couple of my preds (I have 4) develop a 1/32" wobble and then settle to nothing again. It's wood. Temp, Humidity, Full Moon. All these play a little in the overall dynamics of a cue. Are you sure it's not in the joint?
regards,
Nick
Way too many variables involved with the shaft in question to make an intelligent decision on who's right or wrong.........Greg said:
I have to believe the original poster has been following this thread and has been asked numerous times a few different additional questions about his X shaft that warped.
4 hours of play means nothing and is probably the best thing that happened to that shaft.
Are you the original purchaser of the shaft?
Was it purchased directly from Tiger or one of their dealers?
How long have you actually owned the shaft before you realized it was not straight?
How bad of a "warp" is it?
Was it perfectly straight when you received it assuming you are the original purchaser/owner?
If so, why did you play with it for 4 hours then decide that it was warped?
I could go on with more Q's but I think I am making my point here.
If I received a brand new X shaft from Tiger and I took it out of the tube it came in and noticed it was NOT to my liking I would immediately contact Tiger and I know without one second of hesitation they would correct the situation for me or anyone else that would be in the same situation. Thats the way they do business, period!
You can not expect any company to pick up the slack from every whiner out there that is not happy because they can't read or comprehend what the warranty limits are.
There are just too many unknown variables that only the original poster knows for sure the real truth and we may never know what it really is because he sure isn't going to tell us anything that would affect his complaint in a negative picture towards himself.
Just my thoughts on a warped piece of wood...............
Fast Lenny said:I think that your wrong,i mean i wouldnt waste the space on the forum if i wasnt speaking what i mean.I was considering a Tiger shaft because i hear they are just as good as Predator and that the Sniper tips are just as good if not better then a Moori,but why take a chance with a backless product?I had a Predator and it was great but the Tiger shaft seems to be a bit cheaper and i have heard good things but this company seems to have no spine.Maybe i will go with a McDermott I shaft or something.You say it wont hurt there business but your wrong,it will hurt them,there might be 5 to 10 right here,and then they tell 10 people and so on and so forth and then they lost sales,word of mouth has more power then you think.
I'm aware of such word of mouth. But when someone tells me something bad about a company, I don't tell others about it, like it happened to me as well. Like I was some sort of victim of the company. I don't make them out to be bad. I just listen when people tell me and consider it next time I'm buying from the company. And who in their right mind would just listen to someone that heard something from someone that read something on a forum about tiger? Word of mouth only goes so far unless you are the victim yourself spreading all the bad news. Go tell ten people in your town and ask them to spread the news to others. I bet it won't make a lick of difference. But since you think Tiger, Pred, and a ton of cuemakers have no spine than you should just stick to mcdermotts so there is nothing to ever worry about.
Tony
I agree i should take into consideration the info and perhaps all the facts behind it,i just think we all need more facts from the original poster of this thread.As for me thinking they have no spine,well when you sell a shaft and it warps you should try to right this even though it might not be the companies fault,the factors to be considered should be if the shaft has been taken down,if not the shaft shouldnt warp right away.I didnt say a ton of cuemakers had no spine either,a good cuemaker will usually do something for the customer.I just think that my experience with Predator was a good one, McDermott backs there product 100% so i am considering them,i am not so sure about Tiger now but if the price is right maybe i give it a try,but if it warps i blame you,lol,j/k.Mystick Cue Fan said:
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So does Pechauer.Bamacues said:
