My X-Shaft warped, no warranty!

[MOJOE]

Good Post, Dave

Dave brought up many of the points that I had planned to make as well as others. His questions are essential and none of them have been answered by the original poster. From his lack of response, I would guess that there is more to the story than what has been presented.

Tiger has outstanding customer service and a very good reputation. I would still, not hesitate purchasing anything from them. They make an outstanding product and have a very reasonable return policy IMHO.

I have had questions in the past and they have ALWAYS been very quick and courteous with their answers. I have heard dozens of great things about them, this is the first negative review that I have received.

Unfortunately, one bad comment can oftern outweigh dozens of praises. I have spent many years in the customer service field and that is just a simple fact. I am NOT affiliated with Tiger in any way. Just believe in a company that works hard and supports the industry.

Joe

Way too many variables involved with the shaft in question to make an intelligent decision on who's right or wrong.........
I have to believe the original poster has been following this thread and has been asked numerous times a few different additional questions about his X shaft that warped.
4 hours of play means nothing and is probably the best thing that happened to that shaft.

Are you the original purchaser of the shaft?
Was it purchased directly from Tiger or one of their dealers?
How long have you actually owned the shaft before you realized it was not straight?
How bad of a "warp" is it?
Was it perfectly straight when you received it assuming you are the original purchaser/owner?
If so, why did you play with it for 4 hours then decide that it was warped?

I could go on with more Q's but I think I am making my point here.

If I received a brand new X shaft from Tiger and I took it out of the tube it came in and noticed it was NOT to my liking I would immediately contact Tiger and I know without one second of hesitation they would correct the situation for me or anyone else that would be in the same situation. Thats the way they do business, period!
You can not expect any company to pick up the slack from every whiner out there that is not happy because they can't read or comprehend what the warranty limits are.
There are just too many unknown variables that only the original poster knows for sure the real truth and we may never know what it really is because he sure isn't going to tell us anything that would affect his complaint in a negative picture towards himself.
Just my thoughts on a warped piece of wood...............

 

[Flex]

Fwiw

Yesterday I received Rep points from a cuemaker on this forum who has not posted in this thread who in his comment with the Rep said, "I've seen several warped ones...Tiger did nothing."

I realize this could be sour grapes, and understandably he didn't post this for all to read, and accordingly everyone is encouraged to take what he wrote with not just a grain of salt, but a whole bag of it.

In the meantime, it would be helpful if Corey would fill us in on whether their X-Shafts have had a good number of customers who contacted them about warpage issues.

It would also be helpful if ABall would answer some of the very pertinent questions other posters have asked of him.

Flex

 

[ratcues]

Everyone is jumping on Tiger about the warranty. Here's Predator's warranty info taken directly from their website. Notice the last sentence.

"To protect your investment, Predator Products offers a limited lifetime warranty against manufacturing defects. If you ever experience a problem that you believe is covered under warranty, please call our customer service department at 1-888-314-4111 or 1-904-448-8748 for international callers. Please note that this warranty does not cover problems resulting from warping or abuse."

 

[CaptainHook]

Great customer service

Last year around this time a very generous A-Z member donated some KC cues to the senior center. About mid year one of the players noticed a warp in the shaft of one of the cues. I contacted Jim at KC and he said send it back to him.

I sent it USPS, cost about 6 bucks insured.

He sent back a brand new shaft no charge.

He does not even have a policy on his site.

Now that is great customer service.

 

[Hidy Ho]

Dave brought up many of the points that I had planned to make as well as others. His questions are essential and none of them have been answered by the original poster. From his lack of response, I would guess that there is more to the story than what has been presented.

Tiger has outstanding customer service and a very good reputation. I would still, not hesitate purchasing anything from them. They make an outstanding product and have a very reasonable return policy IMHO.

I have had questions in the past and they have ALWAYS been very quick and courteous with their answers. I have heard dozens of great things about them, this is the first negative review that I have received.

Unfortunately, one bad comment can oftern outweigh dozens of praises. I have spent many years in the customer service field and that is just a simple fact. I am NOT affiliated with Tiger in any way. Just believe in a company that works hard and supports the industry.

Joe

I agree with you ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandwagon_effect

 

[CrownCityCorey]

My last post on the issue

The original poster's PM to me:

" Do the x-shafts carry a warrantee against warpage? I did not expost the shaft to any extreme temperatures or levels of moisture. The shaft has maybe 4 hours of play and it warped. I wanted to see if it could be replaced or if I could get some kind of pro-rated value towards the purchase of a new one. Thanks
-Alex"

I replied to him with the warranty information page on our website, which he misunderstood somehow to mean it was covered, which as he states it is not.

Now, we have not been provided:

When this shaft was purchased?
Who it was purchased from (not us directly)?
How long he has had it?
Is he the original purchaser?
Did he leave it in his car, in the rain, in the heat, etc.....?
Do you have a receipt?

Now, at times we will make an exception to the warranty rules if the claim seems legitimate and it is an opportunity to make a customer happy and perhaps learn something about our product (longevity, resistance to the elements, abuse, etc...)

For example, we had a customer that lost his home and personal belongings in the flooding following Hurricane Katrina. He was able to recover his cue from his home when the flooding subsided and he contacted us to see if his warranty covered the damage to the shaft (which of course it did not). However, we had a great curiosity as to how our shafts would have held up after being exposed to a hurricane and flooding for over a month. So, we made no promises and asked him to send it.

When we received the shaft...............IT WAS DEAD STRAIGHT! But it had obviously been through a hurricane. A new tip, re-lacquering, finish sanding, sealer and this guy had a brand new shaft at no charge.

We are no doubt open to hear more of this posters shaft story, though we have no information to go on except that he seems to be expressing "sour grapes" with a retaliation because he did not get a discount or freebie.

For what? There are many misrepresented variables here in this thread.

The whole thing sounds fishy to me and I have no confidence at this point in the claim, so I stand 100% behind the warranty until I am provided reason not to. This thread is not swaying me one bit.

For those of you that think the warranty unfair, it really is an industry standard.

Many other manufacturers won't even accept returns of chalked cues or shafts which we do.

Review for yourself:

http://www.tigerproducts.com/faq.htm
http://www.tigerproducts.com/guarantee.htm

Happy Holidays to you all!

 

[Purdman]

I did not know McDermott outsourced to Asia. I thought they say they make everything in the USA.

They outsourced the McBluds and I would bet you a dollar to a donut that that is where the Sledgehammers are coming from.
Purdman

 

[cuetechasaurus]

Just to give you all an insight on Corey's character- let me first say that he is one helluva guy. I mean he is generous, and he is really nice to talk to. One time I was playing in a Pechauer event against Dave Hemmah. Corey was on the table next to me. I got to a 3-0 lead against Dave, I was playing above my head and ran some pretty tough outs. Dave took a break, and Corey approached me and introduced himself. He told me that I have a great stroke, and he complimented on the way I kept my compusure on some tough pressure shots. Keep in mind, I've never met the guy before then. After that, Dave came back fired up and won like 6 games straight. I won one more game and Hemmah ran the set out (race to 9). Even though I caught the heat from Dave and lost, what Corey said to me really made my day. To have a compliment out of the blue from a pro meant alot. I stuck around and watched Corey's matches. He has a fantastic stroke, I mean he can really power the cueball when he needs to, and he has this great finesse touch. He is going to be a future USOpen champion, I guarantee it.

I'm straying from the topic a little, but I just wanted to say that Corey is a great guy. From what I've seen, he is always willing to give people pointers about the game. He's one of those guys that likes to help other people. He wouldn't rip anybody off, or try to give someone a raw deal. If he was to make a comprimise in this situation, you never know, it might cost him his job. So please lighten up on Corey. He is just going by the rules of the company. If you have a problem with Tiger, don't take it out on him, take it out with the guys who own the business.

And buy the way, I've seen nothing but top notch quality from Tiger products.

 

[metal5d]

I had a very positive experience with Tiger's customer service. I have had two Tiger X-Shafts. One of them was a little off at the joint facing and had a cosmetic blemish on the ferrule. I emailed Tiger and they asked me to send it to them. I sent it to Tiger and they fixed the facing, replaced the ferrule, and installed a new tip at no charge. They shipped it out one day after they received it.

 

[ratcues]

I did not know McDermott outsourced to Asia. I thought they say they make everything in the USA.

They've removed all of the "made in USA" from their logos. Its sad really but we are all to blame. Now, there is only one American made production cue left. Good luck Viking!

 

[jhendri2]

They've removed all of the "made in USA" from their logos. Its sad really but we are all to blame. Now, there is only one American made production cue left. Good luck Viking!

Off topic, but I thought Joss was still made in the USA, along with Jacoby, Meucci, Pechauer, and Schon. Am I wrong?

Jim

 

[ratcues]

Off topic, but I thought Joss was still made in the USA, along with Jacoby, Meucci, Pechauer, and Schon. Am I wrong?

Jim

Not sure about Pechauer but I don't consider Jacoby, Joss, and Schon in the big production market. Think about the big three Meucci, Viking, and McDermott.

I've heard rumors that Meucci had some of their cues outsourced. I read it again in a post a couple of days ago.

 

[X Breaker]

Some people have a problem with the restriction on claiming the warranty, and question why a company would not just send a free shaft out when there is a complain. Sometimes, there are more than one side to the story.

I cannot speak for someone else, but let me share my own experience here.

A poster here bought a used X Breaker from a seller on this forum, about a couple weeks later he emailed me and said he loved the cue but he wanted to have more concave contour on his tip. I offered to do it for him for free, but he said he did not want to be without a cue so he asked to buy an extra shaft. He also sent me a picture of his existing cue and everything was fine.

We do not usually sell just the shaft, but we made an exception for him, and sold him a shaft.

He replied and was very happy.

A few days later, he emailed me and told me he broke his bumper. I did not have any in stock at the time, and the bumpers are $20 a piece. I offered to send him the bumper on my own demo cue for free right away, because it would be at least two weeks before the new shipment of bumpers come in.

Mind you after I sent the bumper of my demo, which is also my own breaking cue, the cue will not perform the same since our bumper is made of a special shock absorbing material. So, if someone wants to buy a cue in the mean time, I may lose a potential sale.

Anyway, I offered to send it to him for free with free shipping the next day.

That night, I received an email from the member on this forum who sold this person the cue. In this email, this person told the seller that his cue had a broken tip, and the bumper was broken, and he wanted the seller to compensate him.

The seller emailed me, and asked me how much was a new shaft and a new bumper. The seller actually wanted to buy a new shaft and a new bumper for this person for good customer service.

I was very upset about the way this was handled. The buyer paid me for a new shaft, and knew he would receive a bumper for free. He also showed me a picture and the tip on his cue was clearly not cracked at the time. He should not have gone around telling others that the tip on his cue cracked while it was not. If it was cracked, he could send it back for a replacement right away.

When he emailed me, he told me that his cue was a gift. But the seller told me he was the buyer of the cue.

I emailed him back and told him all bets were off, because I felt that he was being very dishonest about the whole thing.

A bit later, this person came on the forum and started a big fuss and created a lot of negative publicity for me, my company and my product over this bumper, which I offered to send to him for free in the first place.

I decided not to respond. I was really busy and those who have dealt with me know full well that is just not the way I operate.

I just want to use my own experience to show that there are always more than one side to a story. We do need to hear the poster's answer to the questions posted before we draw our conclusion.

I do not know who is right and who is wrong, and I am not here to judge. I really do not know the whole story. All I know is that there are always more to the story.

I hope this issue can be resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

Happy holidays,
Richard

 

[Craig Fales]

They've removed all of the "made in USA" from their logos. Its sad really but we are all to blame. Now, there is only one American made production cue left. Good luck Viking!

I figured after Jim sold the company those in charge would sell out to China....
________

 

[X Breaker]

Imagine all the competing products being made in the same Chinese factory with a different logo and a different price tag, that would be interesting.

 

[ratcues]

Imagine all the competing products being made in the same Chinese factory with a different logo and a different price tag, that would be interesting.

There are a lot more than you think.....

 

[ShootingArts]

nothing new

Imagine all the competing products being made in the same Chinese factory with a different logo and a different price tag, that would be interesting.

Nothing new for many brands to come off the same assembly line. Common as dirt with rifle scopes now. Spicer gear company made the same ring and pinion for Ford, Chevrolet, and International years ago. All three sets carried the exact same Spicer part number plus the company part number. Chevy sold the set for $329, International for $379 and Ford for $429!

A friend made farm implements years ago. One day they were painted red for Case, one day blue for Ford, and one day green and yellow for John Deere. Of course the green and yellow ones were clearly the best!

Hu

 

[Fuji-whopper]

That's what I don't understand, so many products are made in China it would surprise many of the "I won't buy anything unless it's made in the US of A" people.

Clothing is probably the biggest culprit, plus I can't name one manufacturer of electronics or textiles that is manufactured entirely in the USA. Sure I am on a retail level, so I won't see where things are made, but judging by the tags and stickers almost nothing is made in the states.

It's like gasoline, there are only about 3 main suppliers yet there maybe 10-15 different companies selling gas. They all claim that their gas is different and better, yet they all come from basically the same souce. What makes them unique to their brand?

If everyone read where things really come from they might understand that "made in China" may not be such a bad thing, and that they are supporting something unknowingly that they don't agree with. I don't want to start an arguement, but it's time that some people realize that they buy products from the places that they would not buy from, if known.

Now places like Egypt and Indonesia are considered the "new China", the products coming out of China and Taiwan are pretty much top quality these days. It's natural for any company to try and lower their cost as long as they keep their quality up to the standard that they are used to. What difference does it make if there is a non-speaking Chinese person working on a Chinese lathe in Canada versus a non-speaking Chinese person working on a Chinese lathe in China?

Yes I think that jobs are being lost in the USA because of outsourcing, but there is a reason for that. If you can USE a country and their resources to manufacture products in the volume that is needed, at a cost that is acceptable................who cares what country it is?

 

[Flex]

If you can USE a country and their resources to manufacture products in the volume that is needed, at a cost that is acceptable................who cares what country it is?

So would you knowingly buy products from a country if you know that country controls/own all the businesses and is exporting terror around the world, and your purchases would help kill innocent people?

 

[MrLucky]

So then....

I can imagine that if a cuemaker warranted against warpage (which is most often not his/her fault) that he would have trouble making any real money. As long as the cue and shaft are straight when purchased, how can the maker know that it was not abused by temperature or other things that the owner may do to the cue.

I have had some very very nice custom cues and once in a while the shaft does warp, I understand that this is my problem since I received it in a straight condition. I understand your frustration also but can understand the manufacturers side as well.

Good luck with your situation. JBK

How is that McDermott will replace a warped shaft with no questions asked? Perhaps because they have very few issues with warpage! I keep my McDermotts in my case in my car at all times and have one that is 20 years old and still as straight as the day I won it! Do they have some secret that no one else has figured out yet? Or do they just do a better job in wood selection and preparation?