9baller said:
Or...........
Maybe it was all a practical joke.
Toe MAY toe...
Toe MAH toe....
Russ
NACPBA Fails To Launch
- Thread starter 9 Ball Girl
- Start date
Or...........
Maybe it was all a practical joke.
Toe MAY toe...
Toe MAH toe....
Russ
watchez said:
Very sad news.
I remained optimistic, but I guess this one has also failed to materialize. The sad part is that many of us have had our hopes dashed once again - we just want to make money at what it is we do best.
Hey Voodoo Daddy... reference that long conversation we had before DCC ... My heart is now saying yes. Given the circumstances, how can I say no?
Unnamed investors
As I stated before, the reason the backers were to remain unnamed and secret was because if this venture failed to materialize or became a bad investment (unprofitable), they wouldn't have to feel the ridicule from their personal and business associates for making such a HUGE bad investment. C'mon folks, 22 million per year isn't chump change, and it wasn't slated to be charity either. They just played to someone's fantasy long enough to scope it out to see if had real potential.
The investors were more than likely looking to see how many advertising sponsors would be on the affirmative signup list as of today. If there were no contracts waiting in the the wings from potential paid advertisers, there was no income to repay the investment. Investment !!! NOT Charity!
Poor Tim Dennis, dreamer that he is, just got played like the ignorant pawn that he was. I would be willing to bet he doesn't have a membership to play golf with his so called investors. Now he is left with the bruises from the airbag deployment, while the "potential" investors can play their golf game and still smile and look each other in the eye unscathed.
They didn't get wealthy sticking their necks out.
As I stated before, the reason the backers were to remain unnamed and secret was because if this venture failed to materialize or became a bad investment (unprofitable), they wouldn't have to feel the ridicule from their personal and business associates for making such a HUGE bad investment. C'mon folks, 22 million per year isn't chump change, and it wasn't slated to be charity either. They just played to someone's fantasy long enough to scope it out to see if had real potential.
The investors were more than likely looking to see how many advertising sponsors would be on the affirmative signup list as of today. If there were no contracts waiting in the the wings from potential paid advertisers, there was no income to repay the investment. Investment !!! NOT Charity!
Poor Tim Dennis, dreamer that he is, just got played like the ignorant pawn that he was. I would be willing to bet he doesn't have a membership to play golf with his so called investors. Now he is left with the bruises from the airbag deployment, while the "potential" investors can play their golf game and still smile and look each other in the eye unscathed.
They didn't get wealthy sticking their necks out.
jay helfert said:Sorry, I have to disagree with this line of reasoning. I don't think anything that was said and done on here had any effect whatsoever! JMHO
Perfectly stated. Pool would be great to have a million dollar tour but I think if they had 20 stops with $100K in price money at each stop, that would be a good start. When I hear something like this 22 million dollar tour, I unfortunately don't give it any credibility. The more money makes it less credible, in my mind.
Too bad this guy wasted Greg Diamond time but I am sure that being in business, Greg is used to it. The table order should have been the last thing on Tim's list. Not the first.
our_auctionguy said:
No, they probably got wealthy BECAUSE they stuck their necks out. But what they DIDN'T do was make fools of themselves by advertising in no uncertain terms that the tour was a done deal and even placed orders (subsequently canceled) for a bunch of tables, when the money was not IN THE BANK!
Jim
Voodoo Daddy
One Pocket 101
Blackjack said:
Brother Dave...say the word and I leave the confinds of my local HD dealership, and head up to O-town to plan the next move.
I AM DEAD FUGGIN SERIOUS TOO
I agree with the other posters that give Tim Dennis credit for trying.
Looking to the future, lessons learned for the next aspiring tour:
1. Do not leak any information until you are ready to launch, especially dollar figures. If the business model hasn't been hashed out yet, don't announce anything. Once any information gets leaked, time that needs to be spent putting the tour together will now be spent answering questions and doing PR.
2. Putting sponsorship and marketing deals together takes longer than you think. The spirit of a deal may be agreed upon in a month, but once the lawyers and accountants get involved, you'll be lucky to have it signed in six months.
3. Low-ball the dollar figures. If you announce that you will run a $5 million dollar tour, a $1 million dollar tour looks like a failure. Announce $500,000 and bump it up to a $1 million if the deals fall into place.
Any others that I've missed?
The silver lining is that each failed attempt at a tour gives everyone else some new information about the elements that may and may not work.
Looking to the future, lessons learned for the next aspiring tour:
1. Do not leak any information until you are ready to launch, especially dollar figures. If the business model hasn't been hashed out yet, don't announce anything. Once any information gets leaked, time that needs to be spent putting the tour together will now be spent answering questions and doing PR.
2. Putting sponsorship and marketing deals together takes longer than you think. The spirit of a deal may be agreed upon in a month, but once the lawyers and accountants get involved, you'll be lucky to have it signed in six months.
3. Low-ball the dollar figures. If you announce that you will run a $5 million dollar tour, a $1 million dollar tour looks like a failure. Announce $500,000 and bump it up to a $1 million if the deals fall into place.
Any others that I've missed?
The silver lining is that each failed attempt at a tour gives everyone else some new information about the elements that may and may not work.
ColoradoCueClub
Registered
POOP lol!!
It is rather sickening that this keeps happening, the bottom line has to be marketability to the masses....Perhaps we need a new version of the game: "Billiard Gladiaters"-Its like speed pool with pads. Two tables in close proximity...as the players try to run their racks they can check the other player to slow him/her down. "4 in the corner, Whap!! neck shot!!"
It is rather sickening that this keeps happening, the bottom line has to be marketability to the masses....Perhaps we need a new version of the game: "Billiard Gladiaters"-Its like speed pool with pads. Two tables in close proximity...as the players try to run their racks they can check the other player to slow him/her down. "4 in the corner, Whap!! neck shot!!"
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9baller said:Maybe one of the reasons it failed was the lack of positive response from poolplayers and here on AZ. Before any big tour like this can save pool, we have to offer our support and give it a chance. I am not saying it is all our fault, but I think we are partially to blame. Pool will never be succesfull if we dont change. I understand that people were skeptical about it but it might have worked if we had offered more interest and support for the tour instead of criticism. Now begin the flaming
Like jay said, i dont think a bunch of pessimists on an internet forum was the reason this fell through. It was a pretty grandiose plan to start with. Might have had a better shot at it if they started small and built it up.
Now we're talkin'
As long as it is ruled a foul for spearing your opponent with your cue, I could get into this! LMSAO (S=Silly)
ColoradoCueClub said:
As long as it is ruled a foul for spearing your opponent with your cue, I could get into this! LMSAO (S=Silly)
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About half of these posts are about how unfortunate this situation has become and now no tour will be developed. The other half stand back and ridicule what could have been a great tour. I'll be the first to admit that 22,000,000 is a bit of an over-reach but something could have or might have been done to accompolish one of the most treasured goals of having a ligitimate decent money pool tour.
I don't know the number of "registered" pool players we have but this info. could found out through the APA and the BCA, they being the most prevelent pool organizations in our sport.
How many of you guys are really interested in have a $$$ tour and are willing to put a few bucks behind your desires? This is the key question you must ask yourselves. I for one would be willing to put up $10 bucks per month for the next 10 months. This would be a total of $100.00. Now let's say the APA & BCA had a total of 10,000 members who would contribute likewise. This would amount to $1,000,000.00 bucks. Now let's say the APA & BCA were to kick in 10K each. Now we have $1,020,000.00 to put on a tournament with a pot of approx. 700K or maybe 800K with the winner taking 400K and the rest paid down 20 deep.
The first tournament would be regional in nature and would rotate throughout the country. Breaking the country up into 4 regions would be resonable and if successful this could be held on yearly basis in EACH region.
The point I'm making is that if we are all serious about this type of venue we dont need some unknown "businessmen" backing anything. We can do this ourselves. When this is accompolished we can seek out sponsors.
All we need is $10.00 per month of 10 months and we an do this ourselves.
What are YOUR thoughts on this idea?
I don't know the number of "registered" pool players we have but this info. could found out through the APA and the BCA, they being the most prevelent pool organizations in our sport.
How many of you guys are really interested in have a $$$ tour and are willing to put a few bucks behind your desires? This is the key question you must ask yourselves. I for one would be willing to put up $10 bucks per month for the next 10 months. This would be a total of $100.00. Now let's say the APA & BCA had a total of 10,000 members who would contribute likewise. This would amount to $1,000,000.00 bucks. Now let's say the APA & BCA were to kick in 10K each. Now we have $1,020,000.00 to put on a tournament with a pot of approx. 700K or maybe 800K with the winner taking 400K and the rest paid down 20 deep.
The first tournament would be regional in nature and would rotate throughout the country. Breaking the country up into 4 regions would be resonable and if successful this could be held on yearly basis in EACH region.
The point I'm making is that if we are all serious about this type of venue we dont need some unknown "businessmen" backing anything. We can do this ourselves. When this is accompolished we can seek out sponsors.
All we need is $10.00 per month of 10 months and we an do this ourselves.
What are YOUR thoughts on this idea?
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I think that you are correct in your thinking. Not too long ago people on here where looking for a battle of the sexes match. I had the ability to put it together but I needed $5.00 from as many people as possible to try and make it happen. Guess what? I got blasted for asking people for money, all the resons in the world came out. "I don't know you, you can't have my card number, I need a business plan" I onluy asked for a verbal commitment. So I really agree with what you are saying but getting the $$ from anyone will be tough. There are a few on here that will have no problem if they think it helps but it would be a rough job. If we could follow your plan and and also get it on PPV or free internet and get some kind of response then the networks would have no choice but to take notice. I have done a number of things with Pro Pool and getting sponsorship is like selling snakes in most cases. Again you are on the right track in IMO.Dawgie said:
Let's face it... pool is a middle class pastime with no sponsors
Now. that statement will rile some of you up and that is fine. I am not saying you can't be wealthy and love the games of billiards, but if you step back outside of yourself and do some comparisons between pool and golf or pool and bowling, you might catch my drift.
Answer these questions with either pocket billiards, bowling, or golf.
Which sport is played in the out of doors the majority of time?
Which sport has the highest use fees just to play?
Which sport almost always charges rental fees to use needed equipment?
Which sport is most likely to have in-season sports recap on the nightly news?
If you randomly polled 500 men and women with household incomes of less than $100,000/year, which sport would be the one that fewer had most likely ever participated in?
Which sport is likely to have the most advertising dollars?
---
I was fortunate enough to get "invited" to one invitational golf tournament in my life. The best part was all the free food and alcohol supplied by the sponsors at the sponsor tents. I think Hogan came through the hole I was watching with one thing on his mind.... getting another drink. I do not play golf, because the cost is prohibitive to do it on a regular basis, yet somehow, the networks can get me to sit down once in a while every summer on a lazy day and actually watch for an hour or so of a major tournament. How do they do that??
I would bet more people have played pool or bowled than played golf, yet golf has got the big money behind it. Figure out how to put the kind of sponsirship $ behind pool that graces the NFL, NBA, Golf, NASCAR, and even tennis, then you have the makings for establishing the PCA (Professional Cueists Association) similar to the PGA. Ask any second grader if he or she has heard of Tiger Woods. Now, how about Earl Strickland, Efren Reyes, or maybe a world beater bowler? I can't even name a bowler either. Yep, it is viewed as a middle class pastime, not a professional sport.
Now. that statement will rile some of you up and that is fine. I am not saying you can't be wealthy and love the games of billiards, but if you step back outside of yourself and do some comparisons between pool and golf or pool and bowling, you might catch my drift.
Answer these questions with either pocket billiards, bowling, or golf.
Which sport is played in the out of doors the majority of time?
Which sport has the highest use fees just to play?
Which sport almost always charges rental fees to use needed equipment?
Which sport is most likely to have in-season sports recap on the nightly news?
If you randomly polled 500 men and women with household incomes of less than $100,000/year, which sport would be the one that fewer had most likely ever participated in?
Which sport is likely to have the most advertising dollars?
---
I was fortunate enough to get "invited" to one invitational golf tournament in my life. The best part was all the free food and alcohol supplied by the sponsors at the sponsor tents. I think Hogan came through the hole I was watching with one thing on his mind.... getting another drink. I do not play golf, because the cost is prohibitive to do it on a regular basis, yet somehow, the networks can get me to sit down once in a while every summer on a lazy day and actually watch for an hour or so of a major tournament. How do they do that??
I would bet more people have played pool or bowled than played golf, yet golf has got the big money behind it. Figure out how to put the kind of sponsirship $ behind pool that graces the NFL, NBA, Golf, NASCAR, and even tennis, then you have the makings for establishing the PCA (Professional Cueists Association) similar to the PGA. Ask any second grader if he or she has heard of Tiger Woods. Now, how about Earl Strickland, Efren Reyes, or maybe a world beater bowler? I can't even name a bowler either. Yep, it is viewed as a middle class pastime, not a professional sport.
bfdlad said:
IMO the proof of concept has already been done perhaps even unknowingly by Billy Incardona and Diamonds in Dallas. In the first/only big 1 pocket tournament they had a decent turn-out and had anywhere from 15-30 people watching at $10 a head on each day. Not great... but not bad for one of the first tournaments. They also had a lot of people watching online. I think that was a great "pilot" for what can be done on a larger scale. (with food and alcohol!!)
-Back2good1
bfdlad said:
To alleve any feelings that the money would be spent as stated; what do you guys think of this approach to keeping the money safe. We go to a local bank and explain what we are trying to do. We have the bank collect the money in any way you would like to make a deposit. Also have NO money released unless that bank is acquainted with the payee along with three approved signatures. I think this is fair and would keep the money safe.
This along with returning all monies if we don't meet a particular dollar amount.
No offense, but I doubt any bank is going to want to get involved with something that is five bucks here, five bucks there, from a lot of people. It's got that "rinky-dink" air about it.
Frankly, the whole "give us five bucks, we'll give it back later if things fall through" idea is silly as well. It would require massive amounts of paperwork/tracking/etc.
Now, if you worked it like "Give us five bucks, if this goes through great - if not, we'll donate the WHOLE PILE to (something)" - something being a charity, or to a juniors pool program, or whatever - I think that would be a good way to go. People aren't going to sweat losing a fiver if they know (or at least, believe) their cash will go to good use one way or the other.
That way, the administrative overhead is a tiny fraction of what it would be otherwise, which means much less chances of errors.
Frankly, the whole "give us five bucks, we'll give it back later if things fall through" idea is silly as well. It would require massive amounts of paperwork/tracking/etc.
Now, if you worked it like "Give us five bucks, if this goes through great - if not, we'll donate the WHOLE PILE to (something)" - something being a charity, or to a juniors pool program, or whatever - I think that would be a good way to go. People aren't going to sweat losing a fiver if they know (or at least, believe) their cash will go to good use one way or the other.
That way, the administrative overhead is a tiny fraction of what it would be otherwise, which means much less chances of errors.
The problem I see with trying to get a high $ tour is the flood of existing tours. reading here on AZ it seems every state has a couple of tours on the go. Most look to be sponsored. Since these tours are started by people trying making money running them, it would be hard to bring them all together for 1 big tour. I do think the $$ would be there if this could happen. Total the added money for the events from the list of tournaments on the homepage you would get $22,000 or more per event. With a BCA type membership and qualifier structure you could easily hit $100,000 per event with free entry for the players. We just need someone able to run/organize and not take money until the tour is turning a profit. If the tour was called PBA ( I know the name is taken) have an online store for all billiard products with money going to tour, Internet coverage instead of relying on TV. Have table installers pay to be a PBA approved installer etc. Milk the hell out of every available avenue for making money for the tour (PLAYERS!!!). The biggest change would be GET THE PRO'S TO PROMOTE POOL WHEN NOT IN TOURNAMENTS INSTEAD OF GAMBLING... I don't think you would ever see a top level pro show at a poolroom and just beat balls around to help build interest in the sport. Have you ever had a top player in a room come up and ask to play without putting a $ on the game.
We are going to need a lot of people playing for "the love of the game" before anyone is ever going to make a living instead of a quick buck.
We are going to need a lot of people playing for "the love of the game" before anyone is ever going to make a living instead of a quick buck.
double post