Naysayers Unite

D

duckie

GregH
Silver Member
This thread is for naysayers where we can correct the misinformation brought forth.

Like in the Voodoo Aiming Video thread with the statment that the system works for all shots when in fact thats not true.

It may work for all the shots known to the poster but not for all shots possible in pool. Also the only way to be able to make that statement would be to have shot all the shots in pool with that system in order for that statement to be true.

Its this kinda BS that drives the real pool players nuts.

Also, any system that relies on being able to directly hit/see the OB to get yourself not only on the aim line but also into your stance has major shortcomings.

Get outside the world of 9 ball and you will see that there are way more types of shots that come up where you can not directly hit the OB. Then that system breaks down.

And those shots used in the Voodoo Aiming Video thread to show that the system works, good grief, lets get some tough shots set up. And use it on a shot that goes rail first.


Another statement to bugged me was from Stan about how this is the most accuarte aming system there is which is total BS. It is no more accurate than GB or the Chicken Bone toss.

The accuracy does not come from the system but the application of the system not matter what is is. The application comes from the person so any system is only as accuarte as the person using it, even the chicken bone toss.

It this kinda suff and this is the biggest. CTE can not be proven on paper as a aiming system, but there is the belief it is a aiming system. If it cannot be proved on paper like GB then it ain't a aiming systm.
 
It would be pretty sweet if all the naysayers and haters could just spew their stuff in this thread, instead of shitting up perfectly good threads. That way I can just stay out and judge things for myself.
 
And can the yaysayers plox stay out of this thread, so we can have an honest discussion and rebuttal of exaggerated claims?
 
Look it is what it is. The pro CTE guys have found magic in a bottle...or so they believe. The point with great glee at a hand full of pro's who they proclaim use aforementioned system (mostly unconfirmed). I don't know if this was the case why do I see almost every pro and his mama walk around and either visualize where they want to hit the ball or even point with their cue tip where they want to make contact. According to the CTE kids they would just do CTE, pivot, shoot and win.

I can attribute 75% of my misses to trying to do something for position etc. Having to spin the rock and/or hit the cue ball at a curtain pace/spin forces my hand at times. All these adjustments I put through my computer adjust and shoot. I could probably make 90% of the required shots in pool with 5 aim points (full, 3/4, 1/2, 1/4, 1/18 ball) and derive the results required with spin (I don't do this). I started out as a snooker guy. In that game you either build up your fundamentals or you go home. The tolerances and distances will just eat you up. Do I believe you can get certain placebo results with CTE? Yes on "full-ish" shots. 9/8th's to 1/2 ball hits. Even these require the pivot to operate and my believe is this where the problem lies. We the GB/CP players look for the fraction/spot and adjust from there for Throw, Curve, Squirt, built in stroke issues and fire. CTE kids work from a couple of reference spots, shift and adjust. The problems I believe are:
1. They adjust the pivot be feel by using memory to do what needs to be done.
2. The wheels fall off the system when you go to the edges for the thin cuts

For me I have no problem debating this with making it into religious debate. I'm just waiting for the CTE-Jihad. PJ, Lou and others have debated this on many threads for the most part I believe we have acted within the parameters of healthy dialog. For the most part (not in all cases) the Pro-CTE guys with the highest resistance are trying to sell something or are just cybre-brats.

1. Our camp is for the most part not running 4" banner ads c/w photos trying to sell something.
2. Are willing to say and demonstrate face to face what they write.
3. Stick to non-personal at tacts (hey we are all human and stray the course from time to time)
4. Don't treat the matter like a religion

In the end the forum is owned by others and they make the rules and enforce them. Do I believe they have acted correctly? It doesn't matter. Their ball. Their game.

Nick
 
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My aiming system is this: Just whack it as hard as you can. All pockets stand by. :thumbup:
 
Even if you could pocket every shot with your magic aiming system, that would be NOWHERE even near good enough to play pro level pool. Position play is critical.

Watch Johnny Archer scratch on that 6 ball in the Mosconi Cup because he says he cut it a bit too thin (still pocketed it). Damn, that shot was probably seven feet long in total - these straight shooters are shading the pocket from longer and longer distances - way more than even the old school greats.

If you want to compete with the top guns, you had better bring a system that allows you to shoot to a specific portion of the pocket on most reasonable shots. You might beat Joe Blow on AZB just by being a good "pocketer", but I can assure you the majority of the young guns will have you for lunch if that is all you aspire to accomplish. It seems very obvious if you watch (or ask some of them).
 
Williebetmore said:
Even if you could pocket every shot with your magic aiming system, that would be NOWHERE even near good enough to play pro level pool. Position play is critical.

Watch Johnny Archer scratch on that 6 ball in the Mosconi Cup because he says he cut it a bit too thin (still pocketed it). Damn, that shot was probably seven feet long in total - these straight shooters are shading the pocket from longer and longer distances - way more than even the old school greats.

If you want to compete with the top guns, you had better bring a system that allows you to shoot to a specific portion of the pocket on most reasonable shots. You might beat Joe Blow on AZB just by being a good "pocketer", but I can assure you the majority of the young guns will have you for lunch if that is all you aspire to accomplish. It seems very obvious if you watch (or ask some of them).
Click to expand...

I was at Cal Billiards watching the 9 ball and one thing that I noticed that was really hurting some players and that was poor position play.

This is why even doing single shot drills, I always think of where I want to put the CB even tho there are no other balls on the table. It helps to always think about position.

I also saw a that some would use draw when follow would have worked better for getting into postion.

Oh and for sure one reason for this was to help keep the BS out of some threads, even tho, I just broke my on rule. My bad.
 
duckie said:
This thread is for naysayers where we can correct the misinformation brought forth.

Like in the Voodoo Aiming Video thread with the statment that the system works for all shots when in fact thats not true.
Click to expand...

No one who is a proponent of the aiming systems under discussion has ever said that they work for "all" shots. They work for all shots where the object ball has a clear path to the pocket. They work for almost all one rail bank shots. They work for shots where the object ball is frozen to the rail as demonstrated by Dave Segal.

You are more than welcome to post your list of shots in the above categories which you think that can't be made using CTE and I will be happy to show you that they can.

It may work for all the shots known to the poster but not for all shots possible in pool. Also the only way to be able to make that statement would be to have shot all the shots in pool with that system in order for that statement to be true.
Click to expand...

The beauty of the system is that a player can come up against a shot he has never seen before and then using it he can make the shot. It's very empowering.

Its this kinda BS that drives the real pool players nuts.
Click to expand...

Or the kind of thing that gives real pool players the nuts.

Also, any system that relies on being able to directly hit/see the OB to get yourself not only on the aim line but also into your stance has major shortcomings.
Click to expand...

What are those shortcomings?

Get outside the world of 9 ball and you will see that there are way more types of shots that come up where you can not directly hit the OB. Then that system breaks down.
Click to expand...

You mean like one pocket? I have been using CTE to play one pocket. For shots where I cannot directly hit the object ball I use whatever system is needed to hit the ball. Jimmy Reid, the US Open champion, taught me the mirror system for one rail kicks that is the nuts.

And those shots used in the Voodoo Aiming Video thread to show that the system works, good grief, lets get some tough shots set up. And use it on a shot that goes rail first.
Click to expand...

Feel free to set up the shots you want to learn and I will teach you how to make them.


Another statement to bugged me was from Stan about how this is the most accuarte aming system there is which is total BS. It is no more accurate than GB or the Chicken Bone toss.
Click to expand...

And you know this how? Wouldn't it be safe to assume that Stan, who coaches professional players, would know all about the GB system and that he has a reputation to lose by making a statement he can't back up?

The accuracy does not come from the system but the application of the system not matter what is is. The application comes from the person so any system is only as accuarte as the person using it, even the chicken bone toss.
Click to expand...

Um, not quite. It should be pretty clear to you that I can make up a "system" that won't get you anywhere near the aiming line no matter how good you are.

It this kinda suff and this is the biggest. CTE can not be proven on paper as a aiming system, but there is the belief it is a aiming system. If it cannot be proved on paper like GB then it ain't a aiming systm.
Click to expand...

Of course it can be proven on paper. It just takes more paper :-)

The reason I call CTE an aiming system is that the steps are systematic. When I use it I do the same three steps every time. Feels like a system to me. In fact I'd call it more a system than ghost ball which relies on imagination and estimation in my opinion.
 
which is more powerful?

knowing systems don't work, and learning nothing from them?

or, believing in and learning from them and having that belief build your confidence in your game?

of course systems work to an extent to deny that is silly, and when you find a shorcoming, you learn a new way to solve the problem. If you doubt this, talk to most any 3 cusion player.....almost ALL of them use systems, only one that I know of who didn't was Sang Lee......an AWSOME player RIP.

to turn your nose up at learning systems is basically like adding many years to your learning curve....I know this because that is what happened to me. It took me years to learn things instead of months....i was very proud of my stubborn ignorance :) "i play by feel, and it took me twice as long to get there" :cool:


I'll say this....after 25 years of playing I was a real good "A" player...with glaring flaws.

Since diving into the world of banking systems, aiming systems, diamond/kicking systems etc. my game picked up more in the last 2 years then in all the others combined.

Actually, it would be great if more players disagreed with systems and never learned them.....easier for the rest of us :)

G.
 
Know what is even more powerful?

Paying attention.

After paying attention, I figure out what I do wrong. After paying attention, I noticed I hit some shots too full and others not full enough. I didn't need a magic compass, a wishbone or a jewelled necklace. Just last night, after paying attention, I realized I had a simple yet problematic flaw in my aiming. I don't need to bend my knees, I don't need to measure with a stick, I don't need to use the CB as a sun dial, nor do I need to make any more adjustments than where I aim at. I realized I was trying, for the most part, to hit all shots in a similar manner and was surprised when it wasn't working out the same in all cases. :eek:

I'm beginning to think all of this CTE stuff is simply shocking a player's stagnated learning back into improvement simply because they are doing something differently, like one would in a regular excersize routine. Most of the people touting the system tend to be people that have been playing for quite a while and sound as though they have been on a plateau for a long time. It is very hard to get better when you're just doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results after already having gotten to a certain level. :boring2:

I always hear people saying that they want a perfect preshot routine.. or maybe a perfect stroke.. or a perfect bridge.. or a perfect cue.. it makes it sound like it would just fix all of their problems. I hear very few people talk about how they missed a shot, or what the balls did when they missed because obviously what they're doing wrong involves something besides the interaction between the stick, CB and OB. :rolleyes:

Blah blah blah blah blah.
 
I draw an imaginary line from the center of the pocket through the middle of the OB and then try to find a landmark on the contact point or very near it…like a place on the number, stripe, or other marking on the ball. If I can’t find a marking on the OB I’ll sometimes use the reflection of the light or use a ghost ball. With a STRAIGHT stroke I hit my mark and the OB goes in. There is a lot of feel to it.
These systems can’t be sold because they are not complicated enough and have been around for years. Johnnyt
 
Well Well Well

Johnnyt said:
I draw an imaginary line from the center of the pocket through the middle of the OB and then try to find a landmark on the contact point or very near it…like a place on the number, stripe, or other marking on the ball. If I can’t find a marking on the OB I’ll sometimes use the reflection of the light or use a ghost ball. With a STRAIGHT stroke I hit my mark and the OB goes in. There is a lot of feel to it.
These systems can’t be sold because they are not complicated enough and have been around for years. Johnnyt
Click to expand...

I use this method as well...I'm just saying...:p..When I stay down, and be still and shoot with a straight stroke, the ball falls. It just does...plain and simple..
 
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