New direction for the players

[Scott Lee]

JAM...There's nothing wrong with that idea...as stated here. The problem lies with the "advice" NOT to sign things outside of this enterprise. Most of us here believe that both ideas should be able to coexist...creating, and selling "signed" merchandise, and poolplayers signing autographs at will (at public venues), for mostly whoever asks them (I think most of them are smart enough to know if they were being hustled...for autographs ). This option makes it a win-win for both the fans and the players.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Those are what I am referring to. Pat Fleming of Accu-Stats is one of the players on those cards, and so is J.R. Calvert of InsidePOOL.

If they were sold with autographs on them, they could be collector items someday. What Freddy was intending to do was something similar, providing a product with the autograph on it. The project was to be initiated at his expense, I might add, up front.

JAM

 

[cplayermagic]

I am putting together an organization that will insure that the players get paid for their autographs. No more cue balls, shirts, photos, or sticks signed for nix. Every other sports celebrity in the world gets paid big money to sign sports gear, but not our guys. I am going to try and change all that. I talked to all the major players at the Olympics in Louisville this Nov. To a man they were all excited by the idea. To start it off I paid all of them -- in front-- to sign some cue balls and other stuff. I am going to have them, and other top players, from Efren on down, pre-autograph sports gear to be marketed from my booth at DCC and then on my website with the boys getting a cut of everything they sign -- in front. At Derby City I will be at a booth that will have, among other things, pre-autographed memorabilia, and the ability to provide -- on request -- autographs on whatever memorabilia the fans provide, their shirts, sticks, whatever. The players will get paid for every signature. I am then going to take it further and solicit the big billiard supply companies and allow them to advertise and sell, officially autographed memorabilia, balls, cues, clothing, etc. I'm also going to hit on the cuemakers and allow them to sell their sticks with a real autograph on them, not a machine print. Naturally, that would allow the cuemakers to charge a few bucks extra for a special edition cue. For this service they would pay our organization a fee. The players I talked to have agreed to not sign anything for free at DCC. They will refer all requests to my booth. To give an idea of what the marketing for this stuff might look like on a suppliers catalog page, I'm including a preview of some of the marketing I am going to do on my webpage where I am going to solicit requests for autographed cueballs and display cases. A fan can reserve an autographed cueball and trophy case and I will get his ball signed for him at Derby City in Jan.

The Beard
(exception: the Bugs signed cueballs on display below are not for sale)

this is the most ridiculous idea ive ever heard in my entire life. 'from efren and down' ... way to be a condescending fool. i bet every other player who is 'under efren' will be thrilled to know he/she is getting paid less for an autograph since they are 'lower'

with what authority do you form this organization? with your beard?
are you planning to be able to gather every pool player 'under efren' and convince them to join this cult of morons you're forming? santa claus?

sounds to me like you're broke or desperate for attention. learn to bank.

 

[cleary]

You weren't foolish at all. It was very noble of you to try. I think many of us are cynical with anything positive happening with our sport - which is why people responded the way they did.

Like so many others, Freddy was just trying to kickstart the pool economy. I dont think people were cynical, just realistic... because like so many others, I dont see this as a step in the right direction. The whole sport is in such a delicate state and everyone knows it. Everyone knows that something needs to happen but nobody know what. I admire freddy's spirt and hopefully someone will find the answer, soon!

 

[gpeezy]

I myself don't really care to get an autograph from a pool player. Although I do have yours Freddy from the DCC this year in my Banking with The Beard copy. You signed it there for me and it was more than a nice gesture it was taken as a compliment to me. Thats what I think of with an autograph. Its kinda of a personal experience between fan and the admired. Like say I don't really care to go chase down anyone for their autograph but I do remember getting yours well. I don't think badly of someone trying to get more money for the players. I don't think charging for an autograph is the best way.

 

[vagabond]

A year ago I went to see the state fair in Albuquerque,NM. Miss New Mexico had been going round signing autographs.She came to me and in a polite way asked me whether I liked to have her autograph.I was boorish and with a scrowl on my face shouted at her " No ".I thought I would get arrested by the state troopers who were standing few feet away from me but they let me go.

By the way what do people do with somebody`s signatures?

 

[worldison2]

By the way what do people do with somebody`s signatures?

A lot of people try to sell 'em. I can't believe what some people are willing to pay.

 

[punter]

this is the most ridiculous idea ive ever heard in my entire life. 'from efren and down' ... way to be a condescending fool. i bet every other player who is 'under efren' will be thrilled to know he/she is getting paid less for an autograph since they are 'lower'

with what authority do you form this organization? with your beard?
are you planning to be able to gather every pool player 'under efren' and convince them to join this cult of morons you're forming? santa claus?

sounds to me like you're broke or desperate for attention. learn to bank.

WOW ! Very classy ........ NOT !

 

[freddy the beard]

Thanks Punter

WOW ! Very classy ........ NOT !

Thanks Punter,
Just for meanness I looked up all of "CDPlayswithhimself's" posts. All 55 of them. They were, as I had figured, pretty much all in the same insulting, childish, worthless vein. So save for this post, he gets no more ink from me. Plus I think its time this thread went back to sleep.

the Beard

 

[Bigtruck]

Good Product

I now realize that so many of you were right and it was foolish to pursue my idea. So what I propose to do is donate the thousands of dollars I have made for myself and the players, selling the autographed memorablilia, to my favorite charity, Hookers Anonymous. If you would like to add to that noble fund, attend my websites, Http://www.bankingwiththebeard.com/cueballs.html
and http://www.bankingwiththebeard.com/ballsets.html.

the Beard

Bad Marketing.

I actually took a look at your website and it looked very interesting.

I have many autographs that I received for free. If you have the pleasure of meeting up with a Pro Player and they want to give you an autograph for free, I think it's the right thing to do. But, on the flip side, I would like autographed memorabillia of players that I have not had the chance to meet in person. For this, I think your service is awesome.

I have been to numerous "Pro" events and have never caught up with Efren. I would like the Efren cueball.

I think you just hit the rail with the wrong english!

Thanks Freddy!

Bank on!

Ray

 

[vagabond]

A lot of people try to sell 'em. I can't believe what some people are willing to pay.

If they are selling them that is unfair to the player who signed.well,that is life I guess...

 

[Scott Lee]

cplayermagic...You are a brand new poster. As such I will give you the benefit of the doubt, that you have no idea who Freddy Bentivegna even is. He is a respected professional player, who has written some excellent books, put his life and heart into this game, and posts here regularly, with some great stories and thoughts. For you to "badmouth" him here, the way you did, shows poor manners, and little knowledge. Although many may agree with your 'platform', you chose a very poor way to promote it.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

this is the most ridiculous idea ive ever heard in my entire life. 'from efren and down' ... way to be a condescending fool. i bet every other player who is 'under efren' will be thrilled to know he/she is getting paid less for an autograph since they are 'lower'

with what authority do you form this organization? with your beard?
are you planning to be able to gather every pool player 'under efren' and convince them to join this cult of morons you're forming? santa claus?

sounds to me like you're broke or desperate for attention. learn to bank.

 

[Roger Long]

cplayermagic...You are a brand new poster. As such I will give you the benefit of the doubt, that you have no idea who Freddy Bentivegna even is. He is a respected professional player, who has written some excellent books, put his life and heart into this game, and posts here regularly, with some great stories and thoughts. For you to "badmouth" him here, the way you did, shows poor manners, and little knowledge. Although many may agree with your 'platform', you chose a very poor way to promote it.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

What Scott said is correct. There's no need to blast someone just because they've presented an unpopular idea.

My approach will be a little different:

Freddy,
I own both of Willie Mosconi's books and I had him autograph them when he came to town for exhibitions in the early eighties. I feel like they should be worth a couple of hundred dollars each. I am willing to let them go, if you are interested in buying them from me.
Roger Long

 

[Purdman]

Mike Segal is the only person that I know of that asked a guy for $20 to sign a cue ball. Good ol' Freddy is trying to make a buck protecting all the players from Efren on down. LOL
Peace, Purdman

 

[jason]

Mike Segal is the only person that I know of that asked a guy for $20 to sign a cue ball. Good ol' Freddy is trying to make a buck protecting all the players from Efren on down. LOL
Peace, Purdman

I think KT bought one or two!

 

[buzzsaw]

Selling signed memorabilia (where you are providing the memorabilia) = fine idea.

Selling autographs = abhorrent to me.

I am a huge pool fan; but will never again pay for an autograph (paid once for Buddy Hall to sign my cueball, told Mike Sigel no thanks when he asked for cash).

Golf, baseball, tennis, basketball, and football greats have routinely signed fans items for free.

Admittedly there are those people that abuse the system, getting multiple autographed items and selling them on e-bay; but a "one autograph/one fan" policy can effectively deal with that.

To me, such a plan demeans both the players and the sport.

I suspect you would do better just selling signed memorabilia. The few dollars you will make selling autographs will never make up for the loss of class the sport will suffer.

Willie has the right idea. This is the business I am in. We have many famous people we sell memorabilia for. They come in and spend an entire day signing "things". However, that doesn't mean they charge a 10 year old fan for an autograph. Pretty bad business descision on their part if they did. For these guys it is big business and can pay quite a few bills.

Freddie, if you would like to discuss this in any detail PM me.

 

[tk_it_ez]

Is it finally over!?!?!?!

Alright, I have been away from the forum for a while and have just recently begun lurking again. I saw this thread and thought Freddy can't be serious so I just spent the last 2 hours or so reading the last 275 or so posts.....Whew, I am worn out.

I want to give my two cents on this issue.

The fastest way to turn a fan into a hater is to refuse to sign an autograph. The ex fan will also go around and tell every person that will listen how much of a jerk so and so is. Equals more haters. This is definitely not what pool needs.

That being said, I think Freddy had good intentions but the delivery was about as bad as it can get. You talk about alienating your target market, this is exactly what happend.

Couple of facts about marketing any product. (including pool player autographs)

People will pay for something that they can sell for more than paid for it. Sorry but this is not the case for pool pros like it is for football, baseball, basketball, etc. You probably wouldn't get much for an autograph of a top dart player or top rated greco roman wrestler either. Sorry but there is just not a big enough demand for them and we have to accept this fact.

People will pay for convenience. Seems that most people on here seem to be under the assumption that all of the pool fans go to the DCC or similar events. I am not so sure about this fact. I have never been so the only way I would be able to get autographed item is to buy them. I should be Freddy's target market, not the DCC crew. And I would support something that helped pool players make a living but if I did attend a DCC and a player refused an autograph, I definitely would not be purchasing one from that player


I am originally from St. Louis, Missouri and now live in Hawaii. When I was younger I used to go to Cardinals baseball games and a few times we waited outside of the stadium after the games to get autographs. The players would always stop and sign autographs FOR FREE. Signing autographs FOR FREE for people that attend the games is what is expected of the players. It is part of the job.

I got many of the Cardinals autographs over the years from seeing them in different places. One example of these players is Ozzie Smith. I probably got Ozzie's autograph 10-15 times over the years at the games and baseball camps. He was always very pleasent and really enjoyed being around his fans. To this day he is one of my favorites.

Todd Zeil on the other hand was a jerk and treated fans like a nuisance. I met him on several occassions and he was always the same. The one time he did offer to sign something at a camp I just turned around and walked away (over towards Tom Pagnozzie sp?? who was also great like Ozzie).

Today, because I will always be a fan I would buy an authorized and certified Ozzie Smith jersey or glove in a frame as something to hang on the wall. This type of product is something that Ozzie probably got a cut from. But it is something different than what a fan can get just by asking for an autograph.

The same goes if I wanted an Albert Pujouls autograph. I live in Hawaii now so it would be difficult for me to get one in person CONVENIENCE. But if I ever did see him and he refused to sign unless I paid, I would never want his autograph again. (and I would tell everyone how much of a jerk he was)

Freddy,
1 Pick your market carefully
2. Don't alienate the fans (also your market)
3. Offer something completely different than what a fan can get on their own.
4. NEVER, EVER, EVER tell a pro not to sign for a fan unless they have 10 or 20 items.
5. Be realistic on the value of your product. It has very little monetary value on the free market so it needs to be positioned for its sentimental value. (MUCH HIGHER)

Just my 2 cents,

Nathan
(good to be back)

 

[cplayermagic]

cplayermagic...You are a brand new poster. As such I will give you the benefit of the doubt, that you have no idea who Freddy Bentivegna even is. He is a respected professional player, who has written some excellent books, put his life and heart into this game, and posts here regularly, with some great stories and thoughts. For you to "badmouth" him here, the way you did, shows poor manners, and little knowledge. Although many may agree with your 'platform', you chose a very poor way to promote it.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

i know exactly who he is. he was a pseudo-professional pool player who is generally regarded as portraying himself as having been much better (in his prime) than he actually was.

aside from this terrible idea about autographs from 'efren down,' his pompous self-promoting attitude is also shown in his newest post (http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=102717). here, he goes out of his way to ensure you that he 'the great beard' is actually the inventor of some wishwash copyrighted idea, and not grady, whom many know to have ACTUALLY been good at pool, even though every one of his posts illustrate him whining like a little girl.

keep up the good work, beered!!