New direction for the players

I am certain that if Freddy refused to sign an autograph for someone, there was a reason for it. At least based on any of the interactions that I have had with him.

However, forum users referring to other forum users as assholes is not something we allow around here.

You are now, so I will assume you didn't know.

Mike

SureShotScot said:
Thank you for saying that and I hope that Freddy reads your post. I was one of those kids who got excited about being in the presence of pool greats and Freddy "the Beard" ruined all my excitement of professional pool players, by being an asshole to a know nothing kid who admired him. Kids are the future of the game and I only respect people who are nice to kids.
 
Quite a thread. I admire Freddy for the spirit of his post, which aims to give the players an additional source of income.

But....................

To me, there are sports that have made it, the ones that have already reached out to their fans and created a big demand for their product, and, in turn, a big following for their players. Then, there are the sports still fighting for respect and for a bigger following. One of the easiest ways for the players in these sports to reach out to their fans is by making themselves accessible to them. Pool is one of these sports.

An often forgotten point about pro pool is that it is a product often given away for free. Pro A plays a ten ahead race against Pro B at Poolroom C. Anyone who is there watching is getting the pro pool product for free. You can't go down to the local golf course and watch two PGA pros gambling with each other and follow along with them. You can't go to the local tennis club and watch two top tennis professionals gamble with each other. Go to the local gym and you won't see two world class boxers squaring off. The truth is that few sports give their product away for free the way pro pool does. Unfortunately, pool does not attract an affluent demographic in the world of sports, and many fans figure that if they can get the pro pool product for free, why pay for it, a subtle reality that I believe reduces fan appetite for pro events.

I am fine with the sale of signed memorabilia at events and at poolrooms with the pros getting their fair share of the proceeds. On the other hand, if professional pool players who routinely give the pro pool product away for free start charging for autographs only at events where the attendees have paid for admission, that, to me, is an insult to the paying fans, and an act of foolishness on the part of the players.

Pool players need to manage their sport, not nickle and dime their most loyal fans. Just one man's opinion.
 
Sorry if this has already been pointed out

But I caught this late and didn't read through all 17 pages of posts - only about 1/2 of them.

A large part of Freddy's point is that everytime a pro player makes an *appearence* they charge for autographs of anything. This is because at say a Baseball card convention if they bring A-Rod there they are going to pay him 100K just to be there for 2 hours. The convention will pay A-Rod, and the convention collects all the fees from the autographs (+ extra entry fees that his appearence draws). That is the real reason that autographs at events that are not the actual competative sport are charged for.

There are very few pro athletes in any sport/game that will not sign pretty much anything you put in front of them. There are some I have heard of that wont sign - generally these players get a terrible reputation and are in a tiny minority of all pros.

It is true that like any other job being a pro can be time consuming, that's why say at a ball game a popular player may only sign autographs for 10 minutes, and probably he's going to sign for kids for those 10 minutes and ignore the older guy with the highly collectible card - we know he's there only to make his thing more valuable, not for the love of the game.

So my point - if there were an open to the public pool convention that didn't also involve competition. And the organizers for this event were going to pay 5 player 10K each to be there specifically to sign autographs, then there is nothing wrong with charging for those autographs. But at something like the DCC where everyone is there to compete - spending that 10 seconds signing a cue ball for an adoring fan is PART OF THE F*CKING JOB. Pool players may not make a lot of money, but being a celebrity and playing that role is part of what comes with wanting to be a celebrity (even a small one).

Trying to organize all players to not sign any autographs on memorbillia at a popular event is quite distasteful.
 
If I want an autograph, I join a tourney where a pro is playing and when I play them I ask them to sign my 'scorecard' that I carry around. Generally these autographs end up costing me $20 - $75 or so, along with a bruised ego! :)
 
This would be another step back to get fans involved in pool. I have autographs from professional baseball, football players, and also NASCAR drivers and I have never been asked to pay for an autograph. I actually find it hard to believe that any pro pool player would feel this way.
 
I'm Beginning To Like Freddy More & More... imo

Freddy The Beard may be on to something completey new to Forums. He is a true innovator.

Freddy starts a thread here at AZB about his new idea, it receives over 8200 Views by people and 245 Replies. Most are in support of Freddy, but many take offense at his new business venture.

The posters in opposition have so upset Freddy, that he's decided to 'take time off from AZB' and settle his dispute over at onepocket.org by posting nine of HIS replies to the 245 post thread here at AZB.

In other words, he's omitted all the back & forth of THIS thread and simply posted NINE seperate posts of HIS to sum up what was said here. This is a new and novel approach in forum land. Take your thoughts and replies to another Forum and just leave out everyone elses input. VIOLA !

Here's Freddy's new innovation: http://onepocket.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1777

Doug
( I am reminded of the old opening to the TV show People's Court:
"These people are NOT actors, they are the actual litigants. They have decided to drop their case in court and have their dispute settled right here in our Forum, The People's Court" ) :)




.
 
heh I can see wanting to drop out of a forum just in general, when the overall vibe is too negative... but fred's handling of it seems a little silly (for the reasons smorg's pointing out, and because I just think it's generally a little thin skinned and melodramatic to break from the forum over just one thread that got a little spicy).

He seems like a nice guy with good intentions though. I hope he can see that most of the people are reasonable here, even if a handful of them forget their manners. I don't think AZB has a 'vicious' atmosphere at all, if you look at the overall scene.

As for autographs, I don't fault anyone if they don't feel like signing them, but I think charging for them is asinine. It's one of those things that someone somewhere is willing to pay for, therefore someone will charge money for it, that's just how things work... but I never really got the appeal and it's nothing I'd buy. I don't see pool in general benefitting from it either.
 
billychips said:
You seem to come up with one absolutely ridiculous post every few months! Wow! At least you made me smile today. I am sure that you will get rich from forcing fans of pool to pay for an autograph of their favorite player and then pay you a cut on top of it! These guys play pool for goodness sakes. You need to go write another fiction book and autograph it! Good luck

EDITED after a PM with Billychips.

JAM
 
Last edited:
SJM...Great post! Succinct and to the point...and definitely NOT just one man's opinion!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

sjm said:
Quite a thread. I admire Freddy for the spirit of his post, which aims to give the players an additional source of income.

But....................


Pool players need to manage their sport, not nickle and dime their most loyal fans. Just one man's opinion.
 
There isn't much more to be said, I agree with the common opinion here, this would not be a good idea.

Pool players do need to make more money, because the money they make right now is a joke, but this is most definitely not the way to do it.
I'm not 100% sure what IS the way to do it, but trying to squeeze what few fans we actually have out there for autograph money is just a step in the wrong direction.
 
JCIN said:
Holy Necropost Batman!!! :D :p :D

I hoped this had been buried for good.

lol I just looked at the the post date before today, had no clue it was this old... who revived this?! Damnit JAM!
 
AZE said:
lol I just looked at the the post date before today, had no clue it was this old... who revived this?! Damnit JAM!

I know, I know. I cannot tell a lie! Twas me. :p

But on a good note, I did happen to see Kim Davenport playing in a pool tournament in Upstate New York in 2005. :)

JAM
 
Freddy has a good idea it just doesn't fit well in the pool world. If any money were to be made it would be a pittance and most likely anger many pool fans.
 
freddy the beard said:
I now realize that so many of you were right and it was foolish to pursue my idea. So what I propose to do is donate the thousands of dollars I have made for myself and the players, selling the autographed memorablilia, to my favorite charity, Hookers Anonymous. If you would like to add to that noble fund, attend my websites, Http://www.bankingwiththebeard.com/cueballs.html
and http://www.bankingwiththebeard.com/ballsets.html.

the Beard
I don't know about givin' any more...........but if it is going to H.A. I will help you donate your proceeds. ;) :)
 
freddy the beard said:
I now realize that so many of you were right and it was foolish to pursue my idea. So what I propose to do is donate the thousands of dollars I have made for myself and the players, selling the autographed memorablilia, to my favorite charity, Hookers Anonymous. If you would like to add to that noble fund, attend my websites, Http://www.bankingwiththebeard.com/cueballs.html
and http://www.bankingwiththebeard.com/ballsets.html.

the Beard

Beard...

You weren't foolish at all. It was very noble of you to try. I think many of us are cynical with anything positive happening with our sport - which is why people responded the way they did.

Furthermore, it's very nice of you to help the ladies of the night... our sweet painted ladies.
 
cor said:
Hey >

Long post but I assure you worth reading!!:

I am an avid reader (daily) of this forum - and I never reply - until now.

I am a young up and coming pool player (a/open speed) (under 21) .. and I can say this is the worst idea I've ever heard of and actually makes me sick.

I can recall going to Super Billiards Expo in PA and 2 World Class Players were sitting by a UPA booth giving autographs. I might of been 16 or 17 at the time and I was impressed and actually nervous to meet them. I went up for an autograph and they told me "25$" or whatever price they were charging. I said "oh" and only having $10 in my pocket I turned around.

It was a disappointing day. As I left the Expo Allen Hopkins was talking to someone from my local pool hall and they called me over. Allen greeted me and signed a poster and handed it to me. It was the coolest thing ever.

Autographs sure may be collectibles but I feel you take away from what it really is. It's somthing you can hang on your wall , admire, and say to your kid/nephew/neice/whoever - I met one of the greats etc.. (not to sound cliche - but some people may feel this way)...

Now as I play more - and I get to play these top players in tournaments I don't feel the same way anymore but I definitly know there are the young crowd out there who feel the SAME way I used to.

I HOPE HOPE HOPE I get to step in the box with these "paid to autograph" players , - BEAT THEM - and sign autographs for every kid in the stand for free.

This gives me even more incentive.

My two cents. Take it for what you may.



That my friend was very good, and so true for me as well as most at that young age.I'm not a young man anymore,but when I took my son (now 20) to Johnny Archers house to just hang out with him and Corey, I saw in his eyes what was in mine a long time ago. They both played a few games with them. That is how the game will grow!!!!!!!

Your Friend: Mark Gregory
 
freddy the beard said:
I am putting together an organization that will insure that the players get paid for their autographs. No more cue balls, shirts, photos, or sticks signed for nix. Every other sports celebrity in the world gets paid big money to sign sports gear, but not our guys. I am going to try and change all that. I talked to all the major players at the Olympics in Louisville this Nov. To a man they were all excited by the idea. To start it off I paid all of them -- in front-- to sign some cue balls and other stuff. I am going to have them, and other top players, from Efren on down, pre-autograph sports gear to be marketed from my booth at DCC and then on my website with the boys getting a cut of everything they sign -- in front. At Derby City I will be at a booth that will have, among other things, pre-autographed memorabilia, and the ability to provide -- on request -- autographs on whatever memorabilia the fans provide, their shirts, sticks, whatever. The players will get paid for every signature. I am then going to take it further and solicit the big billiard supply companies and allow them to advertise and sell, officially autographed memorabilia, balls, cues, clothing, etc. I'm also going to hit on the cuemakers and allow them to sell their sticks with a real autograph on them, not a machine print. Naturally, that would allow the cuemakers to charge a few bucks extra for a special edition cue. For this service they would pay our organization a fee. The players I talked to have agreed to not sign anything for free at DCC. They will refer all requests to my booth. To give an idea of what the marketing for this stuff might look like on a suppliers catalog page, I'm including a preview of some of the marketing I am going to do on my webpage where I am going to solicit requests for autographed cueballs and display cases. A fan can reserve an autographed cueball and trophy case and I will get his ball signed for him at Derby City in Jan.

The Beard
(exception: the Bugs signed cueballs on display below are not for sale)


Freddy, I think in some ways your idea is fine, but other ways are really bad for pool. To sale product to people not in attendance of that tournament is one thing, but to ask players not to sign autographs
at the tournament where spectators have already paid money to watch us play, is over kill.

Mark Gregory
 
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