I've been down at the Riviera for the past week watching my friends in the 9 ball tournament and now in the 8 ball tourney. I didn't notice in the mini mania room, but the main tournament room has the new redesigned valley barboxes. The corner castings are inset flush with the rail as well as the pocket liner being flush. I have watched a total of about ten matches and the new tables are spitting balls back up onto the table after they go in the pocket...What a ***** !!! your opponent leaves you tough but you make a great shot to escape the trap only to have the ball hit the bottom of the pocket and bounce back up on the table!!! I have seen it 5 or 6 times already and hear the screams from surrounding tables where they were experiencing it also. Maybe a few kinks still to be worked out on the new Valley. Nice looking table though!!
New valley tables at APA Nationals
- Thread starter PUTT4DACA$$H
- Start date
If balls spitting back out is such a common problem there right now, I'm kinda wondering how this flaw wasn't caught earlier?
Maybe the tournament players are the guinea pigs?
Do they not haqve any pool players at Valley to test a new table design BEFORE it goes into production? If I owned a company as big as Valley I'd pay a few bar box champs to try it out at the factory for a few hours each before I sent the tables out the door...WTF were they thinking? Johnnyt
Playing catch-up
I had heard that the APA had a plan to shift over to diamond tables after their current contract was up with valley, after next year I think. maybe that was some of the fire that got lit under valley to redesign their table, along with moving their operation back to the good ol' USA, Richland Hills, Texas it says on the tables. maybe that gave them a captured audience to try their experiments on for 3 or four tournament sessions (1 spring - 1 fall/ per year). If they are on that path that would also account for the fact that they didn't even have the new table in their booth yet at the BCA tradeshow this summer. I found that kinda odd, the first redesign in 25 or so years and they weren't proud of it enough to display it to the industry??? anyway, their headed in the right direction or so it seems. JMO
I had heard that the APA had a plan to shift over to diamond tables after their current contract was up with valley, after next year I think. maybe that was some of the fire that got lit under valley to redesign their table, along with moving their operation back to the good ol' USA, Richland Hills, Texas it says on the tables. maybe that gave them a captured audience to try their experiments on for 3 or four tournament sessions (1 spring - 1 fall/ per year). If they are on that path that would also account for the fact that they didn't even have the new table in their booth yet at the BCA tradeshow this summer. I found that kinda odd, the first redesign in 25 or so years and they weren't proud of it enough to display it to the industry??? anyway, their headed in the right direction or so it seems. JMO
Now your talking common sense, wtf are you thinking lol
First they came with a free trick cue ball and now they gone an invented a new fangled ball return, what next built in sex toys?
Oh God! There I go. Now, how to safely navigate my way out of the minefield you've put me in? You're probably a hell of a one pocket player! lol
Thanks a lot Johnnyt. Now I'm just glad I don't own a horse.
I think I'll just shutup now and let the screwed up Valley's take center stage.
Valley Tables at APA
I have seen this happen and it is crazy. You don't event have to hit it that hard! Bad design!!
As far as I know, there are no plans to use Diamond Tables at the APA Nationals. The tables are available and Diamond is willing to provide - but APA seems hung up on the fact that I own BCAPL and also a partner in Diamond.
I wish everyone could just try to do what is best for the players. Diamonds have shone they are the best table for playability. I wish the APA would allow their players to enjoy them!!
Mark Griffin
I have seen this happen and it is crazy. You don't event have to hit it that hard! Bad design!!
As far as I know, there are no plans to use Diamond Tables at the APA Nationals. The tables are available and Diamond is willing to provide - but APA seems hung up on the fact that I own BCAPL and also a partner in Diamond.
I wish everyone could just try to do what is best for the players. Diamonds have shone they are the best table for playability. I wish the APA would allow their players to enjoy them!!
Mark Griffin
Is that a reference to "The Godfather" or spaghetti westerns? :grin:Would you say that Diamonds are constructed with more expensive materials than Valleys ? They both seem to be constructed with a plywood carcass , a synthetic material for the rail caps , Valley's have some sort of laminate and Diamond's have some sort of material that seems to be something ground up and then pressed in shape and bonded with adhesives for rail caps.
I don't think Diamonds are constructed with that much more in material costs , probably it is labor. There is about a 2000 dollar difference in price between a Valley and Diamond 7 foot coin-op . If they got close to Valley's in cost they would dominate the bar table sales.
NOT ground up and pressed into shape. It's actual wood that has been impregnated with resin and pigment, called Dymondwood. They also offer regular woods for the rails also.
Not even close buddy. First of all, for the cabinets...there's a pretty big difference in the price of 3/4" particle board vs 1 1/2" thick plywood. There's also a huge difference between the cost of laminate and Dyamond wood on the surface of the rails. Then, the cost of the electronics to use a red circle cue ball vs magnetic ball....huge reduction of the cost of a magnet. Hmmmm...what else, OH...I know...how about 3/4" undersized slate cost vs 1" over-sized. Then how about the labor to finish the rails vs snapping together a kit table like a Valley.
You probably think a Cooper Mini and a Mercedes SL65 should cost about the same too.....because after all.....they both have 4 tires each...right?
Glen
PS, forgot to mention the fact that a Diamond has a 26 point leveling system, whereas a Valley only levels by the 4 legs!
PS, forgot to mention that the Diamond tables have a leather bi-level pocket design....designed to keep them nasty balls from jumping back up on the table....after they've been pocketed!
Last edited:
Not even close buddy. First of all, for the cabinets...there's a pretty big difference in the price of 3/4" particle board vs 1 1/2" thick plywood. There's also a huge difference between the cost of laminate and Dyamond wood on the surface of the rails. Then, the cost of the electronics to use a red circle cue ball vs magnetic ball....huge reduction of the cost of a magnet. Hmmmm...what else, OH...I know...how about 3/4" undersized slate cost vs 1" over-sized. Then how about the labor to finish the rails vs snapping together a kit table like a Valley.
You probably think a Cooper Mini and a Mercedes SL65 should cost about the same too.....because after all.....they both have 4 tires each...right?
Glen
PS, forgot to mention the fact that a Diamond has a 26 point leveling system, whereas a Valley only levels by the 4 legs!
PS, forgot to mention that the Diamond tables have a leather bi-level pocket design....designed to keep them nasty balls from jumping back up on the table....after they've been pocketed!
You tell 'em Glen! As far as I'm concerned there are Diamonds and then there is everything else. When it comes to bar tables, Diamonds have lapped the field!
Not even close buddy. First of all, for the cabinets...there's a pretty big difference in the price of 3/4" particle board vs 1 1/2" thick plywood. There's also a huge difference between the cost of laminate and Dyamond wood on the surface of the rails. Then, the cost of the electronics to use a red circle cue ball vs magnetic ball....huge reduction of the cost of a magnet. Hmmmm...what else, OH...I know...how about 3/4" undersized slate cost vs 1" over-sized. Then how about the labor to finish the rails vs snapping together a kit table like a Valley.
You probably think a Cooper Mini and a Mercedes SL65 should cost about the same too.....because after all.....they both have 4 tires each...right?
Glen
PS, forgot to mention the fact that a Diamond has a 26 point leveling system, whereas a Valley only levels by the 4 legs!
PS, forgot to mention that the Diamond tables have a leather bi-level pocket design....designed to keep them nasty balls from jumping back up on the table....after they've been pocketed!
Okay , you've made some distinctions that could account for cost differences . Valley says they use a 3/4 inch solid core plywood for the cabinet/carcass.
You probably think a Cooper Mini and a Mercedes SL65 should cost about the same too.....because after all.....they both have 4 tires each...right?
Well a Toyota Corolla is going to use less gas than the Mercedes and they'll move more units than Mercedes . You analogy is good because it speaks to the business end .
People will have to decide if the features offered on the Diamond warrant spending the extra money. While i think the Diamond is better table , it is how much better? , and to the person who has a business and is a buyer that will be a factor.
To the knowledgeable tavern owner it might weigh in ,in the case of the bar owner who just wants another revenue stream it might not . Have to give Valley a little credit , they are trying to make improvements , don't see this from the others in the market .
Does Diamond make a home version of the smart tables minus the coin-op features at a reduced cost ?
Without the coin op... yes..reduced cost...don't know. They do have a setup to help buyers get what they need reasonably. Also bulk order specials. Valley may also have that sort of thing. Also you can pick up on great deals on Diamond tournament smart tables I believe.
Regardless of price point, supplying tables to one of the largest pool events in the world that has pockets that spit out balls as described so far is simply unexcusable. I guarrantee you if what the OP is saying is true, there will be a major shitstorm when those players get back home.