Nine Footer Vs Bar Box

[ironman]

First off, you are putting two of the most gifted players up against someone else. Second, you assume Archer never plays on the 7' tables. He does. I don't know about Efren, but his extraordinary position play sure won't hurt him any.

Next, you are also talking about 14.1 and one pocket. Two games that few bar box specialist will play due to the extreme difficulty of them on a 7' table. But I noticed you left out banks?

If take the normal games played on a 7' table- 9ball and 8ball, then take the barbox specialist vs. anyone other than the very best in pool, and you would be surprised how well the specialist will fair.

One example- Kirkwood. Known as a barbox specialist, but he did pretty well in the IPT!

Most good players in time will adjust to either table. Like Matlock and Buddy just to mention a couple.

Iver the years there have been all these barbox players trying to trap the big table players. "ALMOST" always, in time the big table player will adjust and get the money. They no more and play better.

 

[radge69]

Let me pose this questions to all players and gamblers then.

If a typical 9' table champion say Archer, Reyes or anyone else of my choosing were to set up a match where they played equal amounts of races on both 9' tables and 7' tables against your barbox champion.

Examples
1. race to 50 in 9ball
2. race to 20 in 8ball
3. race to 150 in 14.1
4. race to 5 1pocket

Who is going to bet on the 9' champ verses the 7' champ as being the overall winner of this match.

If someone knows how to set this up as a poll feel free as I would like to see what the general consensus is going to be.

I'll put up SVB against them. How about Jesse Bowman? The box is just a different animal, more clusters, pinpoint position, heavy cue ball.


Bottom line, most players in this country play on the boxes, so you barbox haters better start realizing that the boxes will not be going away at any point. Maybe start accepting that it takes just as much skill to play excellent pool on a box. It's just different areas of the game that are tougher on each type of table, IMO.

 

[SJDinPHX]

Playing on a 7' table is like playing Basketball with 8' high rims........Even white guys can slam dunk...

Good observatuion ! Almost anyone can be a champion on a bar box.

Of course you still have to be able to stand the heat (pressure).otherwise it doesn't matter what
whether you're playing on a 6x12 or a 3x6.

Dick

 

[HitHrdNDraw]

I'll put up SVB against them. How about Jesse Bowman? The box is just a different animal, more clusters, pinpoint position, heavy cue ball.


Bottom line, most players in this country play on the boxes, so you barbox haters better start realizing that the boxes will not be going away at any point. Maybe start accepting that it takes just as much skill to play excellent pool on a box. It's just different areas of the game that are tougher on each type of table, IMO.

You'll put SVB up against them?? you have balls of solid rock.... FYI SVB is a 9' champion in case you haven't heard. None of them have to like it playing him on a 9' much less a barbox

 

[Poolhalljunkie]

$$$$$

I have heard and seen many times a great 9' player get cracked on the box, because they are an entirely different game, especially if you consider most places have the dirty balls and slow nap cloth that wreaks havoc on the precision player.

 

[worriedbeef]

I have heard and seen many times a great 9' player get cracked on the box

but isn't that more because bar boxes are a huge equaliser? as opposed to the nine foot player struggling?

 

[akinnyz]

I have seen many barbox players get snapped off on a 9', but I seldom see a 9' champion that can't play just as well on a barbox.

 

[ironman]

I have heard and seen many times a great 9' player get cracked on the box, because they are an entirely different game, especially if you consider most places have the dirty balls and slow nap cloth that wreaks havoc on the precision player.

Sometimes.

Lets just take the state of Texas though for example: Jeremy, Hillbilly, and Rafael are the three best players in Texas without really much to chllenge and I'm sure some will argue Sylver.

There are many pretty good bar table players in Texas as well that don't play particularly well on the big tables. As well as they play on the bar box, they couldn't begin to challenge any of those three on any table.

 

[Keith McCready]

This question has come up many times on AZ, or something similar. After much thought (I have a lot of time on my hands) I don't think I've every read where you don't need nearly as good basics or fundamentals on a Bar Table as you do on a Nine-footer. On the nine you have a lot many more long shots than the average shots you have on a bar table.

I think this is why a lot of people play jam-up on a bar table but much worse on a nine-footer. The nine is not as forgiving when you get out of line long.

I know I was an A or A- on a bar table, but never made it past B on a nine. I believe this to be mainly because I never had good basics. What do you all think of this observation? Johnnyt

Johnny, I sort of agree with you. It is a little harder to play on a 4-1/2 by 9 than it is on a bar table, but you have to learn how to play on a bar table first to make it easier.

For example, playing 8-ball on a bar table is a lot harder than playing 8-ball on a 4-1/2 by 9 because of the balls getting tied up. Balls will get tied up on a 4-1/2 by 9 as well, but they tie up more on a bar table.

I always liked playing bar table with a big cueball. That was my specialty. They sort of took the big ball out in the '80s. A lot of people couldn't play with the big cueball because of how heavy it was, but believe it or not, when you got used to it, it was much easier to play with a big one than it was the smaller one because you could get through the cueball better, if you know what I mean.

The 9-footer was harder to learn because of the long shots and all the englishes that you have to master. That is why a lot of people when they go from playing on a big table and they go to a bar table, the table looks a lot easier, which it is, but you still have to know your englishes and get position when you have to.

The nap of the cloth and the tightness of the table have a lot to do with it, too. Every table seems like it's a little different. I think being able to adjust to each and every equipment is probably one of the most important things to being an all-around player. I liked practicing in a real tight snooker table when I was preparing to knock somebody in the tub. The only thing you had to adjust to is the size of the balls, but once you did, those 4-1/2 by 9 tables and those 4 by 8 bar tables and then the 3-1/2 by 7, they looked like the pockets were as big as a watermelon! LOL!

 

[Johnnyt]

Johnny, I sort of agree with you. It is a little harder to play on a 4-1/2 by 9 than it is on a bar table, but you have to learn how to play on a bar table first to make it easier.

For example, playing 8-ball on a bar table is a lot harder than playing 8-ball on a 4-1/2 by 9 because of the balls getting tied up. Balls will get tied up on a 4-1/2 by 9 as well, but they tie up more on a bar table.

I always liked playing bar table with a big cueball. That was my specialty. They sort of took the big ball out in the '80s. A lot of people couldn't play with the big cueball because of how heavy it was, but believe it or not, when you got used to it, it was much easier to play with a big one than it was the smaller one because you could get through the cueball better, if you know what I mean.

The 9-footer was harder to learn because of the long shots and all the englishes that you have to master. That is why a lot of people when they go from playing on a big table and they go to a bar table, the table looks a lot easier, which it is, but you still have to know your englishes and get position when you have to.

The nap of the cloth and the tightness of the table have a lot to do with it, too. Every table seems like it's a little different. I think being able to adjust to each and every equipment is probably one of the most important things to being an all-around player. I liked practicing in a real tight snooker table when I was preparing to knock somebody in the tub. The only thing you had to adjust to is the size of the balls, but once you did, those 4-1/2 by 9 tables and those 4 by 8 bar tables and then the 3-1/2 by 7, they looked like the pockets were as big as a watermelon! LOL!

Thank you for stepping in here Kieth. I too liked to play with the big ball and in the last ten years of playing I had trouble finding tables with them. I also went out and shot for an hour on a nine-foot before I hit the seven's in the bars. All I know is I played many of the top players down here in Florida and ALWAYS did better against them on the bar box. GET BACK ON THE TABLE, we miss you. John

 

[pooltchr]

Keith hit on the very thing that makes both sizes challenging, but for different reasons. Smaller tables require much better cue ball control.
The playing surface on a 9 foot table is approximately 40 sq ft.
The playing surface on an 8 foot table is approximately 32 sq ft.
The playing surface on a 7 foot table is approximately 24 sq ft.
The space taken up by a rack of balls is approximately 5 sq ft.

This means there are fewer places for balls to go that aren't in close proximity to other balls. And the open space for the cue ball to move cleanly around the table is far less on the smaller table. Granted, most shots are shorter in distance, but the odds of another ball blocking the path for the shot are greater on the smaller table.

Two completely different sets of issues depending on which size table you play on.

Steve

 

[Tokyo-dave]

Having moved from Japan where there is no such thing as anything other than 9 footers, I've been very frustrated with the 7 and 8 footers because I've actually found them to be equalizers. I've been beaten in 8 ball on 7 footers in short races by guys that I know don't have half my game. And I'm not talking about guys that play good and specialize on the smaller tables like Cory, or Keith. I'm talking about guys that generally can shoot straight and pocket most of what they're trying to, but have no clue and don't even try to move the rock around for position. In my first 6 months of exposure to 7 footers, I've pretty much decided that on a 7 footer, it seems that ANYBODYS game is vulnerable regardless of how good they are. I know that for myself, I wouldn't even play a banger for any serious amount of cash on a 7 footer simply because I think that the more skills, knowledge, and abilities that I would have as compared to a banger wouldn't matter as much on a 7 footer playing 8 ball as they would on a 9 footer playing 9 ball.
dave

 

[ridewiththewind]

I always liked playing bar table with a big cueball. That was my specialty. They sort of took the big ball out in the '80s. A lot of people couldn't play with the big cueball because of how heavy it was, but believe it or not, when you got used to it, it was much easier to play with a big one than it was the smaller one because you could get through the cueball better, if you know what I mean.

At most of the weekly tournaments around these parts, the use only the large cueball....as well as the leagues in the area. Lordy, how people b*tch about the large cueball!...LoL!!

Back in the 70's...*cough* iamold *cough* that was all there was to be found on most tavern and juke joint tables was the large CB. It was kind of a necessity back then...what with crappy cloth, and usually dead rails. The extra mass was needed just to get the ball around the table! LoL. I have people tell me all the time that they just cannot get any draw out of the large CB. I don't get it myself....I learned pretty quickly how to draw, and follow with the larger CB just fine.

I think that some players forget that the larger CB means larger mass, which will carry momentum a lot further, especially with some of today's faster cloths....and they do not adjust their ball speed for this. I find that for me, some shots are actually easier for me to make with the larger CB.

With regards to table sizes....I have always felt that 8 Ball is much tougher than 9 Ball on an 8ft box. I liken it to trying to maneuver through rush hour traffic...LoL...while I find 9 Ball on an 8 ft box to be more akin to both players working a one way street. Then again, I myself, like to, playing 8 Ball on a bar box, soft break the rack...usually pocketing a ball, but leaving a big group all clustered in the center. I have no problem working clusters...just one ball at a time. But it really gets into the head of those players who are used to walking to the table with an open broken rack, with the intent of running out...very few of them can do it.

I, myself, have never really had a tough time adjusting to playing 9 Ball on a 9 ft table...you just need to fudge your angles a bit...but then again, even with my old eyes, long shots have never been an obstacle...I am more likely to goof the short distance shot than the long.

Lisa

 

[nancewayne]

The 1st time I ever played a bar box, I constantly missed shape and thought the rails were super fast. I couldn't draw the cue ball much at all.

Then I discover one BIG difference.

It is the cue ball!

Because bar box tables are coin op. pay tables, the cue ball has to separate when it is pocketed for it to return for more play. Most bar box cue balls are magnetic. Some of the earlier (or cheaper) cue balls are much heavier than the standard 6 oz. balls and much more difficult to control the speed. Even the best cue ball (magnetic particles surround the ball instead of an iron core) are a little heavier and a little more difficult to apply english than a standard (no magnetic) cue ball. If the table uses the slightly oversized cue ball (no magnetic), play is even tougher.
F.Y.I.

 

[ironman]

Johnny, I sort of agree with you. It is a little harder to play on a 4-1/2 by 9 than it is on a bar table, but you have to learn how to play on a bar table first to make it easier.

For example, playing 8-ball on a bar table is a lot harder than playing 8-ball on a 4-1/2 by 9 because of the balls getting tied up. Balls will get tied up on a 4-1/2 by 9 as well, but they tie up more on a bar table.

I always liked playing bar table with a big cueball. That was my specialty. They sort of took the big ball out in the '80s. A lot of people couldn't play with the big cueball because of how heavy it was, but believe it or not, when you got used to it, it was much easier to play with a big one than it was the smaller one because you could get through the cueball better, if you know what I mean.

The 9-footer was harder to learn because of the long shots and all the englishes that you have to master. That is why a lot of people when they go from playing on a big table and they go to a bar table, the table looks a lot easier, which it is, but you still have to know your englishes and get position when you have to.

The nap of the cloth and the tightness of the table have a lot to do with it, too. Every table seems like it's a little different. I think being able to adjust to each and every equipment is probably one of the most important things to being an all-around player. I liked practicing in a real tight snooker table when I was preparing to knock somebody in the tub. The only thing you had to adjust to is the size of the balls, but once you did, those 4-1/2 by 9 tables and those 4 by 8 bar tables and then the 3-1/2 by 7, they looked like the pockets were as big as a watermelon! LOL!

I always loved that big ball too. Of course, that is what I came up with. Once I got over the "Fear" of drawing the big ball, away I went. I agree with you that you could do things with that you can't do with the peanut.

When they took the big ball out, they took the stroke out of the game. Same with the nappy cloth.

If I were to play on one of those ole 4 x 6 Fischer"s with those pockets and the big ball today, well, for a while, it would be intresting.

 

[TX Poolnut]

Keith hit on the very thing that makes both sizes challenging, but for different reasons. Smaller tables require much better cue ball control.
The playing surface on a 9 foot table is approximately 40 sq ft.
The playing surface on an 8 foot table is approximately 32 sq ft.
The playing surface on a 7 foot table is approximately 24 sq ft.
The space taken up by a rack of balls is approximately 5 sq ft.

This means there are fewer places for balls to go that aren't in close proximity to other balls. And the open space for the cue ball to move cleanly around the table is far less on the smaller table. Granted, most shots are shorter in distance, but the odds of another ball blocking the path for the shot are greater on the smaller table.

Two completely different sets of issues depending on which size table you play on.

Steve

A square foot is 12 inches by 12 inches or 144 square inches.

The playing surface of a 9' table is 100 inches by 50 inches or 5,000 square inches total.

5,000 square inches divided by 144 square inches equals 34.72 square feet of playing surface on a 9' foot table.

Am I doing this wrong?

You also said a rack of balls takes up 5 square feet (720 square inches) of playing surface. Huh?

Am I missing something here?

Somebody splain this to me please.

 

[ironman]

A square foot is 12 inches by 12 inches or 144 square inches.

The playing surface of a 9' table is 100 inches by 50 inches or 5,000 square inches total.

5,000 square inches divided by 144 square inches equals 34.72 square feet of playing surface on a 9' foot table.

Am I doing this wrong?

You also said a rack of balls takes up 5 square feet (720 square inches) of playing surface. Huh?

Am I missing something here?

Somebody splain this to me please.

I'm still trying to figure out how to catch the downtown bus!!!!

 

[Johnnyt]

A square foot is 12 inches by 12 inches or 144 square inches.

The playing surface of a 9' table is 100 inches by 50 inches or 5,000 square inches total.

5,000 square inches divided by 144 square inches equals 34.72 square feet of playing surface on a 9' foot table.

Am I doing this wrong?

You also said a rack of balls takes up 5 square feet (720 square inches) of playing surface. Huh?

Am I missing something here?

Somebody splain this to me please.

It's a big ass rack with Bocci Balls. Johnnyt

 

[TX Poolnut]

Sorry for hijacking your thread Johnny. His numbers just didn't seem right.

I didn't do the math for the other tables because I didn't know the playing surfaces of the smaller tables.

 

[Johnnyt]

Sorry for hijacking your thread Johnny. His numbers just didn't seem right.

I didn't do the math for the other tables because I didn't know the playing surfaces of the smaller tables.

No problem TX. Johnnyt