Nit/Locksmiths as Opposed to Smart/Shrewd Gamblers

Gerry said:
Like I have said before....in threads like this there are ....

> players trying to make a name for themselves, and will get into a less then perfect matchup to try and outrun the nuts.....or gain some respect.

> Gamblers, who will try to lock you up, and if it wont work, will give you a close to even shot if the game is right....but you wont like it!

> there are losers who will never win, but try damn hard along the way....and help out the road agents in the process...sometimes they are hard to beat!

> and the lock artists....give em the nutz, but its not enough....the nuts + the break....almost.....the nutz and the break, and odds on the $$$.....and they jump up to life!.....:cool:

> and guys like me...I'll play anyone heads up. I don't ask for weight, I rarely give out weight, but I will play as hard as I friggin can for $20, or $200 and NOT complain.....I'm just not sure what to call myself.

G.
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Anyone that plays their heart out for 20 dollars is probably classified as a nit.
 
Fast Lenny said:
Hey Russ,a funny story from NY was Mike Immonen.My friend goes into the room seeing him practicing and ask if he wants to play some cheap $100 sets,Mika said no.After watching my friend for awhile he figures he is going to be winner and takes the bet,he won $300 off my buddy.When he told me the story I was in disbelief that a World Champion player would decline a $100 challenge. :cool:
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That's pretty sad. If Thorsten gambled, I could not see him ever doing that. HE would either play the guy for free, or immediately take the bet.

Ida know. Seems to me Mika's personality might have taken a turn for the worst since he started playing much better the last few years. Hopefully someone else has a story that belies this perception?

Russ
 
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roosterman said:
Anyone that plays their heart out for 20 dollars is probably classified as a nit.
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Okay, so I am a nit. I play just as hard for $20 as I do a set for a few hundred.

AND?

Russ
 
Hey Fast L. In a previous post I declared to Freddy I dont consider Mika from NY even though he might live there.
 
I'm with Gerry & Russ....

roosterman said:
Anyone that plays their heart out for 20 dollars is probably classified as a nit.
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You play half speed for $20.00? You don't "try" for only $20.00? At what amount do you tune it up? $31.77? $41.04?

Anybody who plays their heart out for $20.00 shows they are very competitive, which, if you ever shot for money, you would know is a good trait to have.

I shoot my heart out when I'm playing the "ghost" and nobody else is around. I try my hardest to never lose when I'm playing for the fun of it.

How does your game advance if you only concentrate on $21.00 sets and above?
 
Fast Lenny said:
Dont forget Irving Crane on that list,he used to gamble it up and was even at JC.He gambled with Cisero too and Cisero couldnt win for the cash again Irving. :)
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I always heard that Irving Crane did not like gambling. Not that he didn't at times.
I think the guys their takling about were the ones that were not afraid of matching up or that matched up alot. thats probably they didn't mention Crane, Murphy or Mosconi. I may be wrong though.
 
Error, error !!!

Terry Ardeno said:
This thread may be my personal favorite so far in 2008. So many great posts!

Freddy,
With ALL THE RESPECT in the world, I have to disagree with you on your list. Grady deserves very honorable mention in the gunfighters HOF. BUT, even though he played lots out of San Fran & Colorado Springs, I'm going to claim him as an "EAST COASTER" by proxy of having lived in Maine & SC. And Lassiter was from Elizabeth City, NC. The town was on the ATLANTIC OCEAN! Any further "east" and he'd be in Europe! DiLiberto was born in Buffalo, lived in AZ for a "little while" and then has been in Hallendale, Fla for YEARS. Sigel is also east coast, no matter what. So I say a recount may be in order there Beard!

Also, where's Allen Hopkins on your list? East coast gunfighter on mine.
Gambled big, still does. World Champion in assorted disciplines. A real good sense about him as well.

*******************************************************
Now, not to Freddy, but just for the record. If I was a professional roadman and could have ANYONE who EVER lived "manage" me on the road, i.e., select games, spots, match ups, etc, etc. I would pick Billy Incardona. I think he's a pool genius and as close as anyone can humanly get to being the total package when it comes to matching up.

As much as I love Grady, I think he had TOO much courage when matching up. He stayed with a bad game just to prove he could win over great odds and he wasn't afraid of anyone. "Tombstone courage" is not always a good asset when playing for lots of $. Grady should be in the "gunfighter's" HOF on just cajones alone! Not even counting his skill and savant pool mind.

DiLiberto & Richie Florence would also rank high on my "potential manager" list.
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Hi Terry, Your usually impecable postings shall be called into question on
the last sentence in your post. " potential manager " ??? Danny Di maybe,Cardone for sure,
but you can't say, Richie Florence and manager, in the same sentence.
He could not sleep with money in his pocket. He was a "gunfighter" and a
real warrior, but a manager he was NOT! Loved him like a brother but he made most of his better scores when he was "being managed".
Quite often he would give up the nuts, and outrun them by sheer talent and heart.
However, he just had no quit in him and was always a threat to empty out
up against a bad game. Surprised no one called you on that my friend.

Dick

P.S. With VERY few exceptions, I'm in Freddie's corner on N.Y.C. "gamblers". One poster said, in their defense "they bet it up on sports and horses." However,its been my experience, they have to know you well enough to sleep with you to match up a fair pool game.($10 a game, 2 barrel max) JMHO
 
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You're 100% right Dick

SJDinPHX said:
Hi Terry, Your usually impecable postings shall be called into question on
the last sentence in your post. " potential manager " ??? Danny Di maybe,Cardone for sure,
but you can't say, Richie Florence and manager, in the same sentence.
He could not sleep with money in his pocket. He was a "gunfighter" and a
real warrior, but a manager he was NOT! Loved him like a brother but he made most of his better scores when he was "being managed".
Quite often he would give up the nuts, and outrun them by sheer talent and heart.
However, he just had no quit in him and was always a threat to empty out
up against a bad game. Surprised no one called you on that my friend.

Dick

P.S. With VERY few exceptions, I'm in Freddie's corner on N.Y.C. "gamblers". One poster said, in their defense "they bet it up on sports and horses." However, they have to know you well enough to sleep with you to match up a fair pool game. ( for ten bucks, two barrel max) JMHO
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Dick,
You're absolutely right about Richie Florence.

And I know that right now, NOBODY is going to believe me when I tell you what happened. But this is the TRUTH!:eek:

I "meant" to type Allen Hopkins name in with DiLiberto's. In fact, I thought I did. I was thinking how good he was not only as a player and as matching up, but look how smart he's been parlaying his idea of a get together for pool enthusiasts into the "Super Billiard Expo". I stopped typing to try and remember who was the successful player who turned promoter on the west coast. And that would be Richie.

Now, here's the part where everybody calls BS.....Just as I was thinking all that, my wife came downstairs to ask me if I wanted to go with her to get more flowers. Far as I know, I typed in Hopkins instead of Florence. I must have been still thinking of Richie when I typed, since my mind was obviously divided in attention.

If you wouldn't have caught that, I probably wouldn't have either. So, great call. And thanks for correcting me. I would not want future generations of pool historians to think we did not know what we're talking about. This shows you DO know what you're talking about.

Now, least anyone think I'm making all this up, I promise that I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. Especially if it concerns details in pool.
Ultimately, it was MY responsibility to proof read what I enter into a post, so the burden falls on me as far as accurate or not.

Nonetheless, you are right. I was wrong for posting Florence instead of Hopkins.

So, officially, I'm GUILTY of being a dummy, but would like it if I could just plead "NO CONTEST"
:D :D :D
 
Terry Ardeno said:
Dick,
You're absolutely right about Richie Florence.

And I know that right now, NOBODY is going to believe me when I tell you what happened. But this is the TRUTH!:eek:

I "meant" to type Allen Hopkins name in with DiLiberto's. In fact, I thought I did. I was thinking how good he was not only as a player and as matching up, but look how smart he's been parlaying his idea of a get together for pool enthusiasts into the "Super Billiard Expo". I stopped typing to try and remember who was the successful player who turned promoter on the west coast. And that would be Richie.

Now, here's the part where everybody calls BS.....Just as I was thinking all that, my wife came downstairs to ask me if I wanted to go with her to get more flowers. Far as I know, I typed in Hopkins instead of Florence. I must have been still thinking of Richie when I typed, since my mind was obviously divided in attention.

If you wouldn't have caught that, I probably wouldn't have either. So, great call. And thanks for correcting me. I would not want future generations of pool historians to think we did not know what we're talking about. This shows you DO know what you're talking about.

Now, least anyone think I'm making all this up, I promise that I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. Especially if it concerns details in pool.
Ultimately, it was MY responsibility to proof read what I enter into a post, so the burden falls on me as far as accurate or not.

Nonetheless, you are right. I was wrong for posting Florence instead of Hopkins.

So, officially, I'm GUILTY of being a dummy, but would like it if I could just plead "NO CONTEST"
:D :D :D
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OK Terry I'll buy your story. The only reason I know for sure is that RF and I,(as well as we got along) soon found out we were not suitable road buddies. It became a race to see who went off first. We wore out Western Union sending for money. The only thing we ever managed real well was partying. We both excelled at that.

Dick
 
Tap Tap Tap

SJDinPHX said:
OK Terry I'll buy your story. The only reason I know for sure is that RF and I,(as well as we got along) soon found out we were not suitable road buddies. It became a race to see who went off first. We wore out Western Union sending for money. The only thing we ever managed real well was partying. We both excelled at that.

Dick
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Dick, your a funny guy really,and your read on Florence is right on,perfect description.Richie was clearly a gun fighter with little management. When he made a game he was a through ticket if he lost,but he was very difficult to beat. Huge heart. I really miss Richie, he was a special person/player.
 
Russ Chewning said:
Freddy,

I've often been curious. What EXACTLY do you think is the reason for the players in the New York City area being so nitty? (In general) I mean, we've all heard the stories, but not the WHY. What is your opinion on this?

Russ
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In the 60's, Johnny Ervolino came to California and was holding court in the coffee shop at Five Points Bowl and somebody asked him why the East Coast players were coming out here. I had just beat him out of $50 playing golf on a 5 x 10 snooker table and he was steamed that a California sucker clould beat him at any pool game. His reply to the question was that he played at the 7/11 in New York & if you wanted to make some $$ in there, you better not miss a ball and then you better be tough enough to get out with the $$. In California, he says, guys like this (pointing at me) run around with $500 in their pocket and will bet it. THATS why we are in California. John Henderson
 
Tap Tap Tap

SJDinPHX said:
OK Terry I'll buy your story. The only reason I know for sure is that RF and I,(as well as we got along) soon found out we were not suitable road buddies. It became a race to see who went off first. We wore out Western Union sending for money. The only thing we ever managed real well was partying. We both excelled at that.

Dick
Click to expand...
Dick, your a funny guy really,and your read on Florence is right on,perfect description.Richie was clearly a gun fighter with little management. When he made a game he was a through ticket if he lost,but he was very difficult to beat. Huge heart. I really miss Richie, he was a special person/player.
 
Tap Tap Tap

SJDinPHX said:
OK Terry I'll buy your story. The only reason I know for sure is that RF and I,(as well as we got along) soon found out we were not suitable road buddies. It became a race to see who went off first. We wore out Western Union sending for money. The only thing we ever managed real well was partying. We both excelled at that.

Dick
Click to expand...
Dick, your a funny guy really,and your read on Florence is right on,perfect description.Richie was clearly a gun fighter with little management. When he made a game he was a through ticket if he lost,but he was very difficult to beat. Huge heart. I really miss Richie, he was a special person/player.
 
tap tap tap

SJDinPHX said:
OK Terry I'll buy your story. The only reason I know for sure is that RF and I,(as well as we got along) soon found out we were not suitable road buddies. It became a race to see who went off first. We wore out Western Union sending for money. The only thing we ever managed real well was partying. We both excelled at that.

Dick
Click to expand...
Dick, your a funny guy really,and your read on Florence is right on,perfect description.Richie was clearly a gun fighter with little management. When he made a game he was a through ticket if he lost,but he was very difficult to beat. Huge heart. I really miss Richie, he was a special person/player.
 
tap tap tap

SJDinPHX said:
OK Terry I'll buy your story. The only reason I know for sure is that RF and I,(as well as we got along) soon found out we were not suitable road buddies. It became a race to see who went off first. We wore out Western Union sending for money. The only thing we ever managed real well was partying. We both excelled at that.

Dick
Click to expand...
Dick, your a funny guy really,and your read on Florence is right on,perfect description.Richie was clearly a gun fighter with little management. When he made a game he was a through ticket if he lost,but he was very difficult to beat. Huge heart. I really miss Richie, he was a special person/player.
 
wincardona said:
Dick, your a funny guy really,and your read on Florence is right on,perfect description.Richie was clearly a gun fighter with little management. When he made a game he was a through ticket if he lost,but he was very difficult to beat. Huge heart. I really miss Richie, he was a special person/player.
Click to expand...
I'm not trying to be redundant but shit happens sometimes.
 
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