He won the biggest 8-ball payday not 9-ball. In the 90’s, Nick Varner made him look stupid for the cash. Overall talent, Efren is the GOAT. But this thread was specifically about 9-ball.
No dispute that Efren is the GOAT, but who is the 9 ball GOAT?
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Here's a 2012 AZB Forum Thread about Buddy. Lots of stories from those who saw him in his back room and pre-ACCU-Stats days. Just because they weren't on video doesn't mean they didn't happen.
I am suprised Sigel is not mentioned. He was tough as they come, great, great player.
He is certainly mentioned often if you read all the posts in this thread, along with Lassiter, Strickland, Hall and Varner.
Everyone mentioning Buddy Hall should mention Howard Vickery, both are huge stains on the game and you should just stop talking about them
This is not about popularity or overall skill or kicking, but about 9 ball. Actual results is he won less tournaments than many of the other pro players, in 9 ball. Did he make great fun neat shots, yes. Did he play one pocket ahead of everyone else, yes. Did he play 9 ball to the level of the other few top players, not quite. There are several ahead of him, not many, and he is in the running, but I would not give him the top 9 ball, or even 10 ball player title in any decade or 5 year span. World 9 Ball, US Open, DCC results in 9 ball are really the measure of things and simple to find the results there, maybe put in Sands as well since that was the time of those in the Efren era were in their prime. Davenport had the most top 3 finishes it seems in that event with 14 but only 2 wins. Next top was tied for Archer and Strickland with 8. Hall never won and only one 2nd but had 2 3rds and 3 4th.
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Hangthe9 said it pretty well. I love Efren but this is not a popularity contest or about his special moments like Hangthe9 said. Lassiter, Buddy, Sigel, Varner, Earl, Johnny, SVB, are the bare minimum that are without question better than Efren at 9ball. You could throw another ten players in there and have a debate about Efren. Reyes got beat by a lot of folks for the cash. Just like everyone has. He is not some mythical, unbeatable deity. His tournament record is nowhere near other players. I think Efren is in the discussion for top 4 or 5 all time greatest players. Again we all love Efren but please let him put his clothes back on and take a shower
What did Buddy do?
I think, not %100, but Earl mentioned something about a tournament where everyone dumped on purpose and side bet on the winner who I think was Mike LeBron. Challenge of Champions maybe. Think Buddy was in the finals with LeBron. Helfert or someone else will know more exactly
Raph Cleary
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Efren did win the Tokyo 9-Ball Open in 2001 which was the largest pay-out of any tournament at the time, he also won the World Pool Championship in 1999, which I believe was the largest pay-out of any tournament at the time, I'll double check that one.
If this is true he would have won the largest pay-out in a tournament on 4 different occasions.
It's sacrilege to even suggest that Mosconi might have competition on AZB, but some people would put Miz at even or ahead of Mosconi on the 14.1 front.
Sort of reminds me why Ali is the considered the boxing GOAT. Ali did not have the best record, was not the fastest, nor the hardest hitting. But he's the boxing GOAT to most people. Because there's boxing "before" and "after" Ali.
Just like there's pool "before" and "after" Efren (at least I think so).
This stuff is fun to think about. Hard to achieve consensus.
A player of Buddy's caliber should not have missed that combo,and to miss it that bad was so obvious it was laughable.
Even more than the missed combination I get a kick out of his repeated attempts to scratch in the side.
Notice he missed the 9 to the right trying to give Lebron an easy shot on the 8 which failed but left a fairly easy rail first shot.
The final shot on the 9 was not easy and could have been missed, what then?
I've analyzed this match in detail before:
Buddy keeps trying to scratch and in general does anything in his power to carry Mike over the finish line, and Mike fails to pocket easy shots. It wouldn't have been quite so obvious if Mike played better. It really is a good question what to do if you get left a hanger after the opponent misses the easy shot you left him, and you have to dump. Scratching behind the ball just cannot be done at this level. I suppose one could thin it for a controlled scratch in the opposite corner. Maybe load up with top and try to overspin the ball into the adjacent corner? I dont' think its easy to get away with anything like this, at this skill level. And they didn't.