Has anyone slammed balls around on a table with a no-ferrule shaft to test resilience? If so, what were your results? I've been wondering about no-ferrule shafts for a while but never actually used one.
No-ferrule shaft abused on purpose?
- Thread starter Hierovision
- Start date
Good question. I used a flat laminated ferruleless for awhile and altho the cue makers use a tip pad to protect the shaft, I wouldn't want to break with it.
Chuck Starkey (Desi on AZ) makes these shafts so hopefully he'll see this.
Chuck Starkey (Desi on AZ) makes these shafts so hopefully he'll see this.
I think you could destroy any shaft configuration by blindly slamming the balls around. This is not a proper test for resiliency. I have been shooting with our ferrule-less shaft for over a year without any resiliency problem. Lots of forced follow and hard draw shots, shots you would encounter playing the game, all the while our ferrule-less shaft design has never failed.
I'm just wondering if someone HAS broken with it... and a lot. I'd like to know what people have discovered as the limit for a ferrule-less configuration.
I can tell you our shaft is not designed to be used on the break. The performance enhancement our shaft produces is not necessarily beneficial to a break shot. The analogy I would use would be using a square grooved Iron in place of a Driver. The s/g Iron gives you excellent spin and control and the Driver gives you power and distance. Two totally different clubs, but both useful in the game.
no ferrule
i do not remember who, but someone about a 1 1/2 years ago from azb turned me on to the no ferrule.
i have sold about 20 - 25 no ferrule shafts and no one has returned a shaft with a problem.
i have been playing about a year with the cue i am currently using, and i break with this cue, as i do with all my cues. the no ferrule has stood up with no problems on my cue so far, but might explode next week. i would not recommend using the no ferrule as a breaking cue. i believe a misscue or miss hit real hard might damage the shaft.
chuck starkey
i do not remember who, but someone about a 1 1/2 years ago from azb turned me on to the no ferrule.
i have sold about 20 - 25 no ferrule shafts and no one has returned a shaft with a problem.
i have been playing about a year with the cue i am currently using, and i break with this cue, as i do with all my cues. the no ferrule has stood up with no problems on my cue so far, but might explode next week. i would not recommend using the no ferrule as a breaking cue. i believe a misscue or miss hit real hard might damage the shaft.
chuck starkey
I'm not interested in using it as a break cue, I just wanted to know if anyone has explored the limits (perhaps with break shots), and what they discovered if they had.
I think you will find the answer is moot, the ferrule-less shafts are designed specifically for shots after the break. Used as designed, they hold up as well as any other shaft used the same way. They are not designed for jump shots and break shots, they are Thoroughbreds designed for high performance, not Mules designed for pulling a plow.
I think you may have made a bit of an overstatement when you said they are designed for high performance.
Ferrels have, and continue to offer two advantages for their being on the end of a cue shaft. They are decorative, for one, and they offer a certain amount of protection to the shaft end.
In addition, if the last 5/8 to 1 inch of the shaft is a ferrel made from a lightweight polymer, shaft mass is reduced and cue ball squirt is lessened, albeit slightly.
I think you may have made a bit of an overstatement when you said they are designed for high performance.
Ferrels have, and continue to offer two advantages for their being on the end of a cue shaft. They are decorative, for one, and they offer a certain amount of protection to the shaft end.
In addition, if the last 5/8 to 1 inch of the shaft is a ferrel made from a lightweight polymer, shaft mass is reduced and cue ball squirt is lessened, albeit slightly.[/QUOTE]
So no ferrule at all would reduce the end mass even more, requiring uptra-premium, tight, straight grained shaftwood, and thus present the "high performance" aspect of the shaft...low end mass with feel. Did I miss something?
Last edited:
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that 99% of ferrule material is more dense/has higher mass than 99% of hard rock maple. I understand it helps reduce deflection... I'm not interested in that aspect alone. If I were I would shoot with a Z-2. If I were to acquire a no-ferrule shaft it would be for the balance of feedback and low-deflection. I was just wondering if someone could give me a relatively definitive answer to exactly how resilient they are.
No-ferule shaft abused on purpose?
Chuck,
Do you use a pad under the tip (such as the thin carbon fiber pad used on all the OB shafts)?
Chuck,
Do you use a pad under the tip (such as the thin carbon fiber pad used on all the OB shafts)?
I had my local cue maker - Dan O'Brian - build a no ferrule shaft for me. He did a great job matching the ring work on my old Schon. Had it since Jan 7th and loved every minute.
The only way you will know it you like it is to get one for yourself. I would recommend it.
I will say that it is easy to get chalk into the shaft right under the tip. Im more concerned with performance than looks so it doesnt bother me. Other people might feel differently.
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn43/MoonshineMattK/P1270067-1.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn43/MoonshineMattK/P1270065.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn43/MoonshineMattK/P1270068.jpg
The only way you will know it you like it is to get one for yourself. I would recommend it.
I will say that it is easy to get chalk into the shaft right under the tip. Im more concerned with performance than looks so it doesnt bother me. Other people might feel differently.
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn43/MoonshineMattK/P1270067-1.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn43/MoonshineMattK/P1270065.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn43/MoonshineMattK/P1270068.jpg
Last edited:
Ferruless shafts
I have had my cues made for several years now with no ferrules on the shafts. I put a pad on the end of the shaft and use them for breaking without ever having a problem. Ferrules are a non performance item, imo. As for offering deflection benefits I would think it would take a very sensitive scale to weigh the amount of wood chips removed to fit a ferrule. Most likely any ferrule will weigh more than the chips and I doubt the most sensitive hands would be able to tell the difference. However, with that said I hope they don't quit putting ferrules on shafts because I make money replacing them. I agree they look better and are a good buffer protection for those rookie chalk rings.
I have had my cues made for several years now with no ferrules on the shafts. I put a pad on the end of the shaft and use them for breaking without ever having a problem. Ferrules are a non performance item, imo. As for offering deflection benefits I would think it would take a very sensitive scale to weigh the amount of wood chips removed to fit a ferrule. Most likely any ferrule will weigh more than the chips and I doubt the most sensitive hands would be able to tell the difference. However, with that said I hope they don't quit putting ferrules on shafts because I make money replacing them. I agree they look better and are a good buffer protection for those rookie chalk rings.
I think I will give it a shot.
I think you may have made a bit of an overstatement when you said they are designed for high performance.
Ferrels have, and continue to offer two advantages for their being on the end of a cue shaft. They are decorative, for one, and they offer a certain amount of protection to the shaft end.
In addition, if the last 5/8 to 1 inch of the shaft is a ferrel made from a lightweight polymer, shaft mass is reduced and cue ball squirt is lessened, albeit slightly.[/QUOTE]
So no ferrule at all would reduce the end mass even more, requiring uptra-premium, tight, straight grained shaftwood, and thus present the "high performance" aspect of the shaft...low end mass with feel. Did I miss something?
Indeed you did. If that last 1 inch to 5/8 inch of the shaft is a lightweight polymer, such as Muecci, or Predator uses, it will be lighter than that last 1 inch to 5/8 inch of only wood. Lighter equals less mass.
I don't oversell or overstate, that being said, I invite you to try our shaft before making statements about it you can not back up with first hand experience. Buy one from me and test it out, then give an honest opinion, not a gratuitous assertion. Money back if you are not convinced.
Indeed you did. If that last 1 inch to 5/8 inch of the shaft is a lightweight polymer, such as Muecci, or Predator uses, it will be lighter than that last 1 inch to 5/8 inch of only wood. Lighter equals less mass.[/QUOTE]
OK, I see what you're saying, the ferrule you describe weighs less than the wood it may be replacing, so maybe it is even less deflection and therefore "higher performance". Maybe, have you tested them? Meucci ferrules had a lot of problems... What I'm saying, is that any low deflection shaft is typically described as "high performance". Ferrule-less shafts are indeed low deflection, and, unlike other LD shafts, are not made out of laminated plywood... they're usually made out of premium select tight-grained maple, providing feedback that others do not. To me, this is high performance, but that's just my opinion...I guess there's other definitions of high performance...
OK, I see what you're saying, the ferrule you describe weighs less than the wood it may be replacing, so maybe it is even less deflection and therefore "higher performance". Maybe, have you tested them? Meucci ferrules had a lot of problems... What I'm saying, is that any low deflection shaft is typically described as "high performance". Ferrule-less shafts are indeed low deflection, and, unlike other LD shafts, are not made out of laminated plywood... they're usually made out of premium select tight-grained maple, providing feedback that others do not. To me, this is high performance, but that's just my opinion...I guess there's other definitions of high performance...
Thank you, no, but I appreciate the kind offer.
My guess is that in the long term there may well be very little difference in the performance characteristics of the ferreled cue shaft versus the unferreled cue shaft. But, having said that, asthetics alone would be enough for me to keep the ferrel.
So if arguably , there's little to no difference in end mass with or with out ferrule , then why would you NOT use of for the strength that it offers?
What 'performance' is gained by taking it off ?
FWIW , I use capless ferrules without pads so we're talking the same or more wood to wood 'feel' offered by ferrule-less or that and a pad.
What 'performance' is gained by taking it off ?
FWIW , I use capless ferrules without pads so we're talking the same or more wood to wood 'feel' offered by ferrule-less or that and a pad.