No one has yet proposed an explanation to the question "Why are only new cue sales banned ?"
Anyone? All we can do is guess until we get something from the owners.
Gary
No new cues on WANTED/FOR SALE anymore?
- Thread starter Killer Miller
- Start date
No one has yet proposed an explanation to the question "Why are only new cue sales banned ?"
Anyone? All we can do is guess until we get something from the owners.
Gary
I know for a fact that Joe Barringer is responsible for some of the legal fees that have been stated as the reason for a significant burden on the management of this site. A few months back, AZ management made a post stating this, but then they removed the post, no doubt fearing yet more legal action. I stated this same thing at that time, and I was called a "gossip" by some moron, just because he didn't hear the information first hand. Well, now this "gossip" has become at least part of the reason behind real changes that will affect everyone on this site.
To me, it's sad that a person who is not even an active member of this site is able to impact it in such a negative way. And not only that, but many here are his customers. What is wrong with this picture???
To me, it's sad that a person who is not even an active member of this site is able to impact it in such a negative way. And not only that, but many here are his customers. What is wrong with this picture???
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I believe I did. Read post #18.
feel free to post all your cues on my site,,,,,,,I'd love to have you,,,,,especially the custom cue makers
Not to stir the pot here but.....I go to several forums regularly, that operate in that fashion 24/7, and some of them are 3 times larger than AZ....
Oh and the things that are sold there 24/7 are (Guns / Knives/ and various other weapons) I don't know how, but the lawyers are kept at bay....
I look at it as:
I am a guest here, I don't always like the rules, but most of the time, I try to follow them. New cues whether it be Cue makers or Dealers are taking the hit. Why not just get rid of the For sale section all together, At least it would be across the board instead of just new cues. Treat all of it the same. Some people speak a lot about the club member thing, That's fine but, The ATCM section is what it is because of the Cue makers and repair people that offer helpful solutions to problems for the inexperienced, whether it be, someone just starting out or in general, just to offer insight to what may go into a cue. We ask for nothing in return except maybe a little respect and courtesy, NOT:
I'd be happy to answer your question, what's your paypal so I can charge for the answer. So, Give me a break about the club. Myself and others pay with a lot more than a few dollars.
I am a guest here, I don't always like the rules, but most of the time, I try to follow them. New cues whether it be Cue makers or Dealers are taking the hit. Why not just get rid of the For sale section all together, At least it would be across the board instead of just new cues. Treat all of it the same. Some people speak a lot about the club member thing, That's fine but, The ATCM section is what it is because of the Cue makers and repair people that offer helpful solutions to problems for the inexperienced, whether it be, someone just starting out or in general, just to offer insight to what may go into a cue. We ask for nothing in return except maybe a little respect and courtesy, NOT:
I'd be happy to answer your question, what's your paypal so I can charge for the answer. So, Give me a break about the club. Myself and others pay with a lot more than a few dollars.
The way I understand it, this is not just about new cues but any new product whether it be cues, cases, tips, dvds, books, racks, ball sets, etc.
Also if I've read it right, a dealer (or cue maker) can still post a new product for sale here but simply must link it to an Ebay listing or some such other thing where the sale is completed.
So if I was a cue maker I would rather post a thread linking to an Ebay offering than not have the For sale forum at all.
It seems to me this is more about the interests of the site's paying advertisers than about legal costs and that's why the distinction between new and used. I mean, a disgruntled buyer could drag AZB into a lawsuit over misrepresentation or fraud on a used item the same as a new item, right? BTW, I'm not saying this isn't a legitimate reason for the change. After all, isn't advertising the site's main source of revenue that keeps this whole thing going for the rest of us?
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So you are saying that you receive no benefit from this site worth paying less than $40 for? Intended or not, this response feels rather pompus.
Look, the game of pool is shrinking along with the market for cues. If the people who benefit directly from the industry won't support it, then what kind of future can it have?
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No Sir:
Very sorry for the way you took it, You might be right, However, some people on here take it as, if your not a club member, your not supporting AZ. I beg to differ. I am saying that myself and others give more than $40 worth of helpful information that as a whole makes this section very strong. For those of us that use our real name, no smoke an mirrors, we benefit. Not everyone will agree with my statement either, If people want me to respect their opinions as they see fit to post. Respect mine,
2 cents
my thoughts is that the reason for no new products is
because the paid advertisers.
problem is that it is impossible to say a cue is used or new by looking at a picture of a cue that has been lighy played
making impossible to enforce the new rule fairly.
as far as i know everyone was asked politely not to post their new products.
but there is alot un answer questions.
getting rid of cue and case makers and their dealers with 250/100 i trader. and saying they are the reason azb is in court doesnt add up.
mike
my thoughts is that the reason for no new products is
because the paid advertisers.
problem is that it is impossible to say a cue is used or new by looking at a picture of a cue that has been lighy played
making impossible to enforce the new rule fairly.
as far as i know everyone was asked politely not to post their new products.
but there is alot un answer questions.
getting rid of cue and case makers and their dealers with 250/100 i trader. and saying they are the reason azb is in court doesnt add up.
mike
Hi Mike
You are right in your thoughts, I openly admit, I didn't even ask the "why" question to the owners here. I'm a guest, if they ask me not to do something, I try to oblige, I don't need to know why. But that's just me.
The practicalities of life demand more than just a balance of "perceived" value exchange. In other words, AZ can't pay their bills with good advice.
IMO, everyone that feels that they are getting personal benefit from their participation on this site should feel obligated to drop a few bucks on a membership to support the further operation and growth of the site. Although I feel that at times I to provide benefit to others with my posts here, I also receive benefit, and so I also give back with a few actual dollars. It costs real money to operate this site, and it needs to come from somewhere.
As far as your seemingly out of place comment about using your real name and smoke and mirrors, I don't know where you were going with that, and it doesn't really matter since it has no bearing on the topic anyway. I'm not trying to force you to accept my opinion, I'm simply stating mine.
And as always, I respect your opinion without questioning it. But I respect it as your handle name,
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RBC
Deceased
From what I have read and understand, the WFS section was originally meant to be like a "Garage Sale". It was intended for individuals who either had a cue they didn't want anymore, or were looking for something specific. Unfortunately, it's turned into a free sales platform for too many who aren't really just an individual wanted to sell or trade a cue.
One thing I find interesting about the pool business is that the public typically doesn't recognize the difference between, dealing with a company that has a reputation and investment in the industry, and dealing with an individual who buys and sells cues as a hobby or "other income" source. I think this is why you see so many threads about someone getting screwed because the cue maker had personal issues and doesn't come through with his promises. Company's can have problems and issues too, but they have much more invested in their reputation and in the industry, so they handle things differently. I'm not trying to knock the one man shop cuemakers. There are many great cuemakers out there, and I feel privileged to know some of them. I just think its crazy when they are held to expectations typical of a large publicly traded corporation.
As for advertising, AZ does provide for those of us who are truly "in business" to advertise our goods. Yes, it costs money. The cost may be too much for the smaller one man shops, and if that's the case, then that's the way it should be. What I mean is, what good does it do to spend money to get more sales than you can fill. It's just wasted money. Of course, I'd like to see my ads get more traffic to my site, but then again, I really need to change them too.
Anyway, the WFS section, at least from what I understand, should really be the "Garage Sale" section. I think that's what was intended anyway.
OB Cues
Get serious about your game
One thing I find interesting about the pool business is that the public typically doesn't recognize the difference between, dealing with a company that has a reputation and investment in the industry, and dealing with an individual who buys and sells cues as a hobby or "other income" source. I think this is why you see so many threads about someone getting screwed because the cue maker had personal issues and doesn't come through with his promises. Company's can have problems and issues too, but they have much more invested in their reputation and in the industry, so they handle things differently. I'm not trying to knock the one man shop cuemakers. There are many great cuemakers out there, and I feel privileged to know some of them. I just think its crazy when they are held to expectations typical of a large publicly traded corporation.
As for advertising, AZ does provide for those of us who are truly "in business" to advertise our goods. Yes, it costs money. The cost may be too much for the smaller one man shops, and if that's the case, then that's the way it should be. What I mean is, what good does it do to spend money to get more sales than you can fill. It's just wasted money. Of course, I'd like to see my ads get more traffic to my site, but then again, I really need to change them too.
Anyway, the WFS section, at least from what I understand, should really be the "Garage Sale" section. I think that's what was intended anyway.
OB Cues
Get serious about your game
Royce, you are a prime example of a person who "gets it." Your sponsorship of TAR events, and small tours, along with your AZ advertising, benefits others in the industry while hopefully providing additional returns for your business.
I feel that there are too many in this already very very small and still shrinking industry, who are only concerned with themselves, and want to belly ache about how few cues they sold at the last show, or how few players were in the last tournament. IMO, we need to be willing to re-invest a portion of our profits to promote the game and to reverse the current shrinking of our customer base. Doing the same thing that we've always done (thinking only of ourselves) and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.
Royce, wether you know it or not, you, Mark Griffin, and Justin C are the new movers and shakers of the pool industry, due to your willingness to invest your time and money for the betterment of the game and the industry. Unfortunatley, there are many, many, others who are willing to sit on the sidelines and ride on your coat tails rather than do something themselves.
I may be just a "handle" on AZ, but I am also a cue maker and pool player who puts his money where his mouth is.
I feel that there are too many in this already very very small and still shrinking industry, who are only concerned with themselves, and want to belly ache about how few cues they sold at the last show, or how few players were in the last tournament. IMO, we need to be willing to re-invest a portion of our profits to promote the game and to reverse the current shrinking of our customer base. Doing the same thing that we've always done (thinking only of ourselves) and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.
Royce, wether you know it or not, you, Mark Griffin, and Justin C are the new movers and shakers of the pool industry, due to your willingness to invest your time and money for the betterment of the game and the industry. Unfortunatley, there are many, many, others who are willing to sit on the sidelines and ride on your coat tails rather than do something themselves.
I may be just a "handle" on AZ, but I am also a cue maker and pool player who puts his money where his mouth is.
selling new cues
the owners of azbilliards have not posted all the problems
they are going through.
so it really is impossible to understand the new rules and agree with them.
and if they did post the problems it could lead to more legal actions
and i think thats the reason they havent posted them.
as of right now there is no rule saying you have to be a paid member
to voice your opinion.
me i im a wood nut ..... plus i enjoy showing and selling pool cues,
the best part is i can give you a list of people around the world that their deeds match what they say. 100% honesty. thats the rewards of honest trade.
i dont want to be a thorn in the owners of azbilliards side.
the new rules hurt my feelings it makes me feel like i did somthing wrong.
one other thing is of the azers that have a great i trader ratings.
my hat is off to you. you are part of what makes this forum great.:clapping: job well done.
mike
the owners of azbilliards have not posted all the problems
they are going through.
so it really is impossible to understand the new rules and agree with them.
and if they did post the problems it could lead to more legal actions
and i think thats the reason they havent posted them.
as of right now there is no rule saying you have to be a paid member
to voice your opinion.
me i im a wood nut ..... plus i enjoy showing and selling pool cues,
the best part is i can give you a list of people around the world that their deeds match what they say. 100% honesty. thats the rewards of honest trade.
i dont want to be a thorn in the owners of azbilliards side.
the new rules hurt my feelings it makes me feel like i did somthing wrong.
one other thing is of the azers that have a great i trader ratings.
my hat is off to you. you are part of what makes this forum great.:clapping: job well done.
mike
Mike, my comments about not supporting the site were never aimed at anyone such as yourself or Royce or a slew of others. It was aimed at the people that have never done anything here but sell, sell, and sell. But yet those are the majority of the people that have spent a lot of time the last 2 weeks complaining of the 'new' rules. People such as yourself, Dickie, KJ, Ryan, Eric, Jerry, Brent, and many others, have been providing alot of help and great assistance for a long while and IMO, should get a free club member status for helping to make this place what it is. It would be at least an acknowlegdement of your good deeds for this site, if you will. I agree with your statement of the fact that the owners own it, and therefore can regulate it as they see fit. I have only sold a few things here, some joint pins and a reversing switch assembly to help others that can't do the wiring. I have received some really good advice and help by many members here over the years, including you.That is why I am a club member on my second year now, to help keep it going and to support a good site. I try to give help if I am able to, but giving money to keep the forum going helps to make up for my lack of knowledgable help. I may not always agree with the selective screening that happens, but nothing is perfect, including me
.
Hopefully it all dies down, and the new free sites pickup the sales, etc. and we can go back to normal, more or less.
Dave
.Hopefully it all dies down, and the new free sites pickup the sales, etc. and we can go back to normal, more or less.
Dave
Mike, my comments about not supporting the site were never aimed at anyone such as yourself or Royce or a slew of others. It was aimed at the people that have never done anything here but sell, sell, and sell. But yet those are the majority of the people that have spent a lot of time the last 2 weeks complaining of the 'new' rules. People such as yourself, Dickie, KJ, Ryan, Eric, Jerry, Brent, and many others, have been providing alot of help and great assistance for a long while and IMO, should get a free club member status for helping to make this place what it is. It would be at least an acknowlegdement of your good deeds for this site, if you will. I agree with your statement of the fact that the owners own it, and therefore can regulate it as they see fit. I have only sold a few things here, some joint pins and a reversing switch assembly to help others that can't do the wiring. I have received some really good advice and help by many members here over the years, including you.That is why I am a club member on my second year now, to help keep it going and to support a good site. I try to give help if I am able to, but giving money to keep the forum going helps to make up for my lack of knowledgable help. I may not always agree with the selective screening that happens, but nothing is perfect, including me
Hopefully it all dies down, and the new free sites pickup the sales, etc. and we can go back to normal, more or less.
Dave
Hi Dave:
I know, yesterday was just a dickish kind of day, Didn't mean to offend anyone.
There is a solution to this problem but it requires the collection of 'selling fees'
and the manpower to process said fees. I've wondered for years why AZB doesn't charge
a fee for the right to sell an item, new or used.
What would happen if AZB charged a percentage of the stated selling price, to be paid
in advance of the posting? You pay the fee (in advance) whether your item sells or not.
I see several things happening with this proposal.
First, the size of the WANTED/FOR SALE section would be greatly reduced, maybe by 1/2.
The commercial dealers would no longer have a free ride.
You want to post 100 new cues? Fine, pay a percentage of the asking price on every one
of them in advance of the posting. OH, and good luck with your sale.
The dealers would immediately stop taking advantage of the intent of the forum.
Paid memberships to the forum would be eligible for a reduced percentage rate for their sales.
Second, the asking price of a lot of items would get a lot more realistic.
Do you want to pay a greater fee on your exaggerated price knowing that there is a very
real chance that your item won't sell?
AZB has a right to make a buck, particularly in the WANTED/FOR SALE section.
By the very nature of the forum, they have a 'target audience'.
99 percent of the visitors to this forum are involved in pool in one form or another.
They are the prime potential buyers of your product. It doesn't get any better than that.
I think it's about time that AZB got paid for the market-place that they have created.
The cue-maker, the related products craftsmen and the individual looking to sell his cue,
new or used, shouldn't have a problem with a small fee per item.
It's part of the cost of doing business and what better place to do it?
This is one of the greatest billiards market-places in the world.
Pay for the right to access that market-place. You don't advertise your item in the local
newspaper for free, why should you here?
I don't sell my cues on AZB though that may change if we get this worked-out.
Seyberts sells my cues and I pay them a commission for that service. I do that gladly.
Why, because they are one of the largest billiards related dealerships in the world.
They provide incredible exposure to my 'target audience'. That's definitely worth something.
If it's all about the money, start collecting it.
and the manpower to process said fees. I've wondered for years why AZB doesn't charge
a fee for the right to sell an item, new or used.
What would happen if AZB charged a percentage of the stated selling price, to be paid
in advance of the posting? You pay the fee (in advance) whether your item sells or not.
I see several things happening with this proposal.
First, the size of the WANTED/FOR SALE section would be greatly reduced, maybe by 1/2.
The commercial dealers would no longer have a free ride.
You want to post 100 new cues? Fine, pay a percentage of the asking price on every one
of them in advance of the posting. OH, and good luck with your sale.
The dealers would immediately stop taking advantage of the intent of the forum.
Paid memberships to the forum would be eligible for a reduced percentage rate for their sales.
Second, the asking price of a lot of items would get a lot more realistic.
Do you want to pay a greater fee on your exaggerated price knowing that there is a very
real chance that your item won't sell?
AZB has a right to make a buck, particularly in the WANTED/FOR SALE section.
By the very nature of the forum, they have a 'target audience'.
99 percent of the visitors to this forum are involved in pool in one form or another.
They are the prime potential buyers of your product. It doesn't get any better than that.
I think it's about time that AZB got paid for the market-place that they have created.
The cue-maker, the related products craftsmen and the individual looking to sell his cue,
new or used, shouldn't have a problem with a small fee per item.
It's part of the cost of doing business and what better place to do it?
This is one of the greatest billiards market-places in the world.
Pay for the right to access that market-place. You don't advertise your item in the local
newspaper for free, why should you here?
I don't sell my cues on AZB though that may change if we get this worked-out.
Seyberts sells my cues and I pay them a commission for that service. I do that gladly.
Why, because they are one of the largest billiards related dealerships in the world.
They provide incredible exposure to my 'target audience'. That's definitely worth something.
If it's all about the money, start collecting it.
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