So it's better to punish the whole field than the 2 players holding up the tournament
No Rule Change for DCC One Pocket This Year
- Thread starter lfigueroa
- Start date
So it's better to punish the whole field than the 2 players holding up the tournament
Maybe but I would hate to be the one trying to stall against Alex for a long period of time
The whole premise of this request does not make any sense. The tournament staff are the only people with the knowledge to answer the question: "What should be the max match length permitted?" The tournament staff are the only ones who can see directly how the tournament is impacted for a 2 hr limit, 3 hr limit, etc.
Greg is a great guy, I thank him every year at the DCC, and went on his factory tour a few times. That said, does he actually run anything anymore? Its my understanding he is no longer part of the day-to-day operations either at Diamond or at the DCC, and is semi-retired. Anytime I see him at the DCC he is socializing. If he no longer handles the day-to-day tournament duties, he may be out of touch with what exactly is going on with the slow matches in banks and one pocket.
IMO:grin-square::grin-square:
Hell, if they change anything, please start with recording scores on all the disciplines so we can add it to the Fargorate database, and redoing the entire match announcement system. That scrolling thing is messed up every single year (for the years I attended), and more times than not when it does work its only the main screen, and the cell phone version does not.
Fixing that scrolling system alone will get people to matches quicker, reduce confusion, and make the crowd near the screens smaller.
IMO:grin-square:
Fixing that scrolling system alone will get people to matches quicker, reduce confusion, and make the crowd near the screens smaller.
IMO:grin-square:
For anybody that thinks a shot clock will work ,here are some things I know for fact,after playing thousands of games with all levels and personalities of players.
They cannot afford to have a score keeper at every table , so the clocks will be the responsibility of the players.
1.Many players have a terrifically hard time, remembering to get their balls out of the return after their inning.
Somehow, these same players ALWAYS remember, that the balls in the return, are theirs.
2. Anyone who has not used a shot clock playing chess, has no idea how hard it is to remember, until you get used to it .
So, be ready for tons of arguments and controversy, over the clocks and running out of time , because they forgot to hit the button.
Also, when time gets short, if the game is close, watching 2 guys running back and forth, shooting and hitting the clock, as fast as they can , should cause no limit to anger and difficulty, of the people playing around them, until they get in the same situation.
Then the whole room will look like a Chinese fire drill.
Here's a chess game of Blitz , imagine this in a room full of pool tables and players and the clock is at one end and they are shooting at the other end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzrap8Vtyq8
Balls getting knocked all over the table, lol
Chess Clocks at a tournament, run by the actual players , will not work.
They cannot afford to have a score keeper at every table , so the clocks will be the responsibility of the players.
1.Many players have a terrifically hard time, remembering to get their balls out of the return after their inning.
Somehow, these same players ALWAYS remember, that the balls in the return, are theirs.
2. Anyone who has not used a shot clock playing chess, has no idea how hard it is to remember, until you get used to it .
So, be ready for tons of arguments and controversy, over the clocks and running out of time , because they forgot to hit the button.
Also, when time gets short, if the game is close, watching 2 guys running back and forth, shooting and hitting the clock, as fast as they can , should cause no limit to anger and difficulty, of the people playing around them, until they get in the same situation.
Then the whole room will look like a Chinese fire drill.
Here's a chess game of Blitz , imagine this in a room full of pool tables and players and the clock is at one end and they are shooting at the other end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzrap8Vtyq8
Balls getting knocked all over the table, lol
Chess Clocks at a tournament, run by the actual players , will not work.
Chess clocks can be set with an increment that adds to the total time after every turn, such that the player never has less than say, 1 minute 15 seconds to take a shot and hit their clock, even if they let their clock run down to 1 second every turn.
And everybody doesn't have to use the clocks. The tournament staff can assign chess clocks based on the total time of the player's previous matches, so slow players can be identified and addressed before things get out of hand over multiple rounds.
And to give incentive to play faster, the players can choose to complete their matches in a timely manner, or the next round, they get assigned a chess clock with time set to a slightly faster clip than they might like. The general gist of it is, "Play at a good moderate pace, or you'll be playing your next match at that pace minus 15%.
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He asked Steve to ask the members of onepocket.org for ideas over 6 months ago. We came up with these same ideas discussed. Lot of hardliners dont want change and dont care if tournament matches last three weeks and tournaments fail as long as the game rules stay the same. A few of us have created members only tournaments that have the Grady rule installed after 2 hours of play in a race to 3. Both these tournaments have 100.00 entry fees and have sold out within 48 hrs with players coming in from all over the country. In my view it's not a big deal to most players, just a small portion of very vocal hard liners afraid of any kind of change.
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I had a two conversations with Greg today.
And my take away is that Greg knows *exactly* what’s going on at the DCC, particularly with the 1pocket, which I believe is his first love. He was citing very specific times, number of contestants, and match numbers. I believe you would be surprised how on top of it he is and how deeply he cares about the event.
Lou Figueroa
My personal opinion is that you would have similar problems with guys who have been playing 1pocket for decades, with nary a care about balls in the kitchen, suddenly being responsible for spotting them up over and over.
Lou Figueroa
You got a few guys, that wanted to get together and see and play each other for a variety of reasons, which is not the same as getting hundreds of players together from all over the world that want to play 1pocket for reasons that have nothing to do with being part of a small knitting group
Lou Figueroa
If this is true, please communicate the desire to have match results recorded, so they can be added into Fargorate. This is the ONE thing I would like to see happen, as this is the only tourney I play any more, and it would be nice to track my improvement.
I will do that.
However, the DCC is such a massive beast, with only so many guys at the tournament desk — who by the way work their asses off for nine loooong days — that I’m not sure you can ladle this too onto their plate.
Lou Figueroa
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You got a few guys, that wanted to get together and see and play each other for a variety of reasons, which is not the same as getting hundreds of players together from all over the world that want to play 1pocket for reasons that have nothing to do with being part of a small knitting group
Lou Figueroa
You mean a group of hard core one pocket fanatics.
Here is my idea. How about a simple poll of all the players registered in this years event to see if they would be for or against the Grady rule for next years event? That would be a darn good sampling. Should be simple to ask each one at registration and put a check down on a y/n piece of paper
I will pass on your suggestion.
However, my personal opinion is that it is DOA. And the reason is that only the hard core fanatics have any clue as to what "Grady's Rules" are. And I believe that once you try to launch into an explanation about balls past the side pockets and the head string people's eyes are going to glaze over and they'll say, "Screw that, let's just play 1pocket."
I'm curious if anyone from the fanatical group can tell us if the Grady Rule has ever been implemented at any kind of major 1pocket tournament? My recollection is that Grady himself did not use those rules at his own events, to include his two last big soirées, the World One-pocket Championship he held in Portland ME in 2000, nor the Gulf Coast Classic, held in Gulfport MS in 2004.
Lou Figueroa
Im curious if you are a Varner Wedge player/fan?
No, I am not.
But that was Varner, and he became known for the wedge, based upon a few video taped matches. I know it occasionally happens in other matches too but not like with Varner.
Lou Figueroa
For what it's worth I also would really like to see the results entered into Fargorate. I play a lot of pool and my Fargo rating reflects literally nothing I've done in the last 3 or 4 years (my number of games in their system hasn't changed).
Absolutely agree with the spotting balls in the kitchen , it, like anything else, takes practice.
I also agree that most players eyes would glaze over and they would say f that , just play.as you said.
Its obvious to me that a couple of the posters who think chess clocks are the answer, have never actually seen one.
In their minds, it's a great idea, the problem is ,the clocks are not as sophisticated as they think, and therefore would only add to the problem .
I agree the slow play is hard on the venue, but I also don't believe it is caused by the guys who get in the banks or one pocket for a free weekly pass, which I find nothing wrong with.
In fact , I would think that was one of the factors, that made this such a successful tournament.
I don't remember a buy back in at the first couple of Derbys ,maybe there were, but that eliminates 90% of the wannabes so if they are any factor at all , it is only the first day or 2 tops.
The slow play I have witnessed has almost always come from the better players.
I personally think the only way to address it is by setting a time limit on the matches. Whoever is ahead at that time , wins.
Especially in the beginning rounds.
Is it perfect ,no, is it fair , yes , both of you know how much time there is , if you don't factor it in ,it's your fault , no one elses.
Especially in the beginning rounds.
That keeps the lower players {if I am wrong and they are the cause}, from slowing it down, and keeps at least the first day or two of each discipline on perfect schedule. Then if there is a problem, it won't be as hard to deal with.
This would also help with some of the scheduling snafus that have happened , you would know what time you played, and it wouldn't change .
I think for most players , it would not affect much of anything, the habitually slow players would be the ones it bothers the most ,and that is how it should be, they are causing the problems.
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I have used electronic chess clocks in two pool leagues. They are a lot more sophisticated than the old mechanical ones. There are some details of the rules you have to get right but that's not too complicated. They do speed up the slow players. The slow players do not like them, as expected.
Is there some specific problem you see?
My first match last year started at 10:30, and ended at 1:30 a.m. having gone hill / hill. This is the LONGEST match I have played at the DCC. To me, a three hour or three and a half hour match seems reasonable...for a race to three. After that, it would seem there might be issues with a guy taking too long to shoot (most likely) or not shooting at all.
I do not totally hate the rule change, I do hate the rule change announcement two weeks before the tournament, after my reservations are made, entry fee paid, with no time on the table to practice under the new rule...with yet ANOTHER new cue ball.
My Suggestions
I am not totally against the new rule, but I wanted more time to prepare.
I had a match last year on a diamond upstairs that had its pockets shimmed, so that they were significantly tighter than a pro-cut diamond. The cloth was a little worn, and the balls had some dust on them, and it was very difficult to pocket routine shots for players at a high amateur skill level. ALL the tables should have regular pockets. Having regular pockets on all the tables will help. If two guys at a lower skill level drew that nasty ass table I played on, I would expect the match to take 5 hours.
I don't mind a three hour limit or three and a half hour limit, but if that were to happen, I feel like there also has to be a shot clock, or else I could see guys putting the stall on at 2:45. I am not sure about the logistics of instituting a shot clock, but I would love it, if it were doable. To me, guys taking too long to shoot is the single biggest problem.
I wouldn't mind starting matches earlier in the day. I know other people might hate this, but it would allow for more time to get matches in. IF the tournament starts to fall behind, they can move tomorrow's start time up.
kollegedave
I do not totally hate the rule change, I do hate the rule change announcement two weeks before the tournament, after my reservations are made, entry fee paid, with no time on the table to practice under the new rule...with yet ANOTHER new cue ball.
My Suggestions
I am not totally against the new rule, but I wanted more time to prepare.
I had a match last year on a diamond upstairs that had its pockets shimmed, so that they were significantly tighter than a pro-cut diamond. The cloth was a little worn, and the balls had some dust on them, and it was very difficult to pocket routine shots for players at a high amateur skill level. ALL the tables should have regular pockets. Having regular pockets on all the tables will help. If two guys at a lower skill level drew that nasty ass table I played on, I would expect the match to take 5 hours.
I don't mind a three hour limit or three and a half hour limit, but if that were to happen, I feel like there also has to be a shot clock, or else I could see guys putting the stall on at 2:45. I am not sure about the logistics of instituting a shot clock, but I would love it, if it were doable. To me, guys taking too long to shoot is the single biggest problem.
I wouldn't mind starting matches earlier in the day. I know other people might hate this, but it would allow for more time to get matches in. IF the tournament starts to fall behind, they can move tomorrow's start time up.
kollegedave