No way to treat a Customer ..

[manwon]

First let me say that I am the "Bob" that Don referred to. When I went to Don's house and rolled the Bender butt on his table the joint did lift off the table about an 1/8". At that time I considered it warped. I ended up buying another Bender cue that is perfectly straight when rolled on a pool table and in a lathe (Greg Sowder check it for me). Greg also told me about the Parabolic taper in these type of cues could be misleading and must be turned on a lathe to verify straightness.

I then started researching Bender, SW, and Bluegrass cues regarding the Parabolic tapers on them. I verified that cues built this way need to be turned on a lathe by a experience cue maker (to make sure the cue is dead center on both ends of the cue). This prevents the misleading "warp" in these cues when its simply the Parabolic taper showing up.

Don, I think your Bender cue is in fact straight and we both at the time thought it was warped simply because we didn't understand the Parabolic taper on these type of cues. Had we both known this we would of taken it to Greg Sowder to check it on a lathe.

I recommend when you get the cue back to take it over to Greg Sowder and have him check it on a lathe. If nothing else it would give you a better piece of mind knowing the cue is infact straight.

Partner if you buy that and you are happy it really matters not. However, I can help you find some additional Cues with that taper that have the same problem. Just like your's it runs true in a lathe when between centers, the only problem with this, is that it will not show a small difference in the overall roundness or trueness. The only way to do this is to move the dial indicator over ever centimeter of the entire cue front to back.

Like I said I have seen this problem many many times. This should not be acceptable, but like I also said if you are happy that is all that matters.

 

[manwon]

A test for folks with dead straight cues. Roll your cue on a flat surface and verify that it shows to roll true on that surface. Then tape a penny to the side of the forearm and see how the cue rolls. I strongly suspect it will hop like a rabbit.

Is the cue still straight or not?

Hu

Hu you are on to something here, but I would take it a step further, and spin it between centers with the penny firmly attached (no movement). I suspect that the cue would still run true depending upon where the penny was located and the speed at which the cue was turned.

I may be wrong, and it certainly will not be the first time, or the last!!!!!

 

[ShootingArts]

bumps or out of round

Hu you are on to something here, but I would take it a step further, and spin it between centers with the penny firmly attached (no movement). I suspect that the cue would still run true depending upon where the penny was located and the speed at which the cue was turned.

I may be wrong, and it certainly will not be the first time, or the last!!!!!

The slightest bump or out of roundness can be magnified by the distance from the joint. The natural imperfection in a leather wrap, a missed bump in the linen, a little bulge in the glue, even not turning the shaft as the finish dries causing it to be a little thicker on the bottom or if it was let dry vertically a little sag on one side that is unperceivable to the eye.

If people have a lathe handy then between centers and a dial indicator or a pair of them will tell the story quickly enough as you mention. If not some of the home testing can cause a lot of needless concern and a loss of confidence in a stick.

Of course you already knew these things but I hope others are reading too.

Hu

 

[JoeyInCali]

Partner if you buy that and you are happy it really matters not. However, I can help you find some additional Cues with that taper that have the same problem. Just like your's it runs true in a lathe when between centers, the only problem with this, is that it will not show a small difference in the overall roundness or trueness. The only way to do this is to move the dial indicator over ever centimeter of the entire cue front to back.

Like I said I have seen this problem many many times. This should not be acceptable, but like I also said if you are happy that is all that matters.

Let's say you indicate the pilot of the pin, it has half a thou of runout.
You indicate the A joint buzz ring , it has 2 thou of runout.
You indicate the buttsleeve, it has 1 thou runout.
You indicate the face and it has 1 thou runout.
You indicate the middle of the wrap, it has 5 thou of runout.

Straight or not?

 

[qbilder]

Let's say you indicate the pilot of the pin, it has half a thou of runout.
You indicate the A joint buzz ring , it has 2 thou of runout.
You indicate the buttsleeve, it has 1 thou runout.
You indicate the face and it has 1 thou runout.
You indicate the middle of the wrap, it has 5 thou of runout.

Straight or not?

Straight. It wouldn't wobble enough to notice to the naked eye, unless you have super man eyes. In order to see a wobble, there needs to be a considerable variation.

I don't understand the fuss. I can understand the owner to a point, but the cue is 3 years old & he admitted Bender made two remarks hinting of the cue being abused. But it's his cue & if he has issues with it then he can feel any way he wants. It's an issue between him & Bender, not a public matter & should not be an open free for all bash fest on the man.

Bender has won awards for his perfect execution & flawless techniques. He has been a top teir builder since Omega DPK, where he worked with & shared knowledge with one of the greatest legends of the craft. He was judged by his peers & awarded for his perfection. Who does any builder on this site think they are to judge & ridicule his techniques & bash his integrity as a person? It's wrong. It's disrespectful. It's shameful.

 

[powerlineman80]

Let me help you out here, first of all changing tips will not and should not void any warrenty by any cue maker. This is not considered a repair, it is maintenace, and whether some hack at your local pool hall changes a tip you do it really has nothing to do with this subject.

I wish you well with your first Custom, and I hope it is all you could possible want it to be!!!!!!

So you are telling me if the local guy screwed the stick up somehow that Bender is still responsible for it? What if he changed ferrules and screwed the stick up? What if there was other work done that the guy has not mentioned? Would Bender still be responsible? Why should he take the heat if someone that 'tried' to work on the cue messed it up? I didnt quite word the post like I wanted to.

BPG24-I know a guy that repairs tips. Just paid for one to be done. Most customs come with 2 shafts and I'd rather wait and let the man that built the cue to work on mine, instead of getting it done 'in time'.

For all we know the stick wasnt taken care of. I'm not judging anyone on this issue until I hear from both sides, and I dont know if we'll hear the other side or not as I have no clue if Bender posts here or not.

 

[LoGiC]

Straight. It wouldn't wobble enough to notice to the naked eye, unless you have super man eyes. In order to see a wobble, there needs to be a considerable variation.

I don't understand the fuss. I can understand the owner to a point, but the cue is 3 years old & he admitted Bender made two remarks hinting of the cue being abused. But it's his cue & if he has issues with it then he can feel any way he wants. It's an issue between him & Bender, not a public matter & should not be an open free for all bash fest on the man.

Bender has won awards for his perfect execution & flawless techniques. He has been a top teir builder since Omega DPK, where he worked with & shared knowledge with one of the greatest legends of the craft. He was judged by his peers & awarded for his perfection. Who does any builder on this site think they are to judge & ridicule his techniques & bash his integrity as a person? It's wrong. It's disrespectful. It's shameful.

TTT!

I was thinking the same thing. I don't understand why people come here and complain against a cue maker, especially one as established as Bender. Its private business and should be handled as such.

Props to everyone who said they would like to see what Bender says about this.

Some day I'll get a ST straight form the source...
Some day...

 

[manwon]

Straight. It wouldn't wobble enough to notice to the naked eye, unless you have super man eyes. In order to see a wobble, there needs to be a considerable variation.

I don't understand the fuss. I can understand the owner to a point, but the cue is 3 years old & he admitted Bender made two remarks hinting of the cue being abused. But it's his cue & if he has issues with it then he can feel any way he wants. It's an issue between him & Bender, not a public matter & should not be an open free for all bash fest on the man.

Bender has won awards for his perfect execution & flawless techniques. He has been a top teir builder since Omega DPK, where he worked with & shared knowledge with one of the greatest legends of the craft. He was judged by his peers & awarded for his perfection. Who does any builder on this site think they are to judge & ridicule his techniques & bash his integrity as a person? It's wrong. It's disrespectful. It's shameful.

You know you have a very good point, however, no two cues are a like, one may be judged perfect and others may not be. This really has nothing to do with any single cue maker, and all have turned out products that may have not been up to their normal standards, for what ever reason things happen, no one is perfect.

So let us talk about problems that stem from certain techniques if not executed perfectly. Now everyone has the right to choose how and what techniques that will be used to build their cues. If you choose a design that requires near perfection, and you are getting paid the big dollars to produce a perfect product, then you should do no less. I am very clear on the double or parabolic taper developed and used by David Paul Kersenbrock. I am also familiar with some of the cue makers / companies using this technique, Omgea DPK, South West, Bender, and many others.

There is also another cue maker who posts on this forum known as Billy Webb AKA Spiderweb. I have handled a number of Bills cues over the last 3 years and Bill uses this taper on his cues. I have talked with Billy on many occasions concerning this specific taper and how try as you will sometimes if every exterior portion of the cue is not perfect the finished product will have this wobble. Can it be corrected during facing certainly, only a few thousands will make this occur due to the taper. Like I said before, while it will not effect the cue concerning play, however, it effects the visual esthetic's of the cue.

Now every one knows that some people can and will allow this to effect their mental game. It also gives people an impression that things are not right, if they can see something and not understand it's cause to that individual that is imperfection. You or no one else can tell someone that a problem that can be seen is nothing, most will not listen.

Today many collectors, and dealers are in fact discounting cues with this taper that have a wobble. This is not conjecture, this is fact, so why should this problem not be disclosed during a sale of a cue and why should a customer be where the buck stops.

Again this really has nothing to do with Mr. Bender specifically, but to say because some one has done this or that, they can do no wrong, is the wrong thing to say, because no one is perfect.

The easiest way to make these discussions stop is to correct the problem, not to say that there is no problem in the first place.

Just my opinion, and you are certainly entitled to your's!!!!!

 

[manwon]

So you are telling me if the local guy screwed the stick up somehow that Bender is still responsible for it? What if he changed ferrules and screwed the stick up? What if there was other work done that the guy has not mentioned? Would Bender still be responsible? Why should he take the heat if someone that 'tried' to work on the cue messed it up? I didnt quite word the post like I wanted to.

BPG24-I know a guy that repairs tips. Just paid for one to be done. Most customs come with 2 shafts and I'd rather wait and let the man that built the cue to work on mine, instead of getting it done 'in time'.

For all we know the stick wasnt taken care of. I'm not judging anyone on this issue until I hear from both sides, and I dont know if we'll hear the other side or not as I have no clue if Bender posts here or not.

So you are telling me if the local guy screwed the stick up somehow that Bender is still responsible for it? What if he changed ferrules and screwed the stick up? What if there was other work done that the guy has not mentioned? Would Bender still be responsible? Why should he take the heat if someone that 'tried' to work on the cue messed it up? I didnt quite word the post like I wanted to

No one is telling you anything, you are the one in the post clearly STATED TIP REPLACEMENT. Now, you are going on to say Ferrules and other things that may have happened. We can continue to make assumptions, but my comments throughout have not even been directed only to this cue or Mr. bender but mainly to the technique used for cues tapered in this manner.

I am not ridiculing you in any way only stating what I believe to be a fact. I hope you understand my point, because cues are being made with these problems, and hopefully it will not happen to you. It is very easy to say what people want to hear, but to me saying something you do not believe is selling out. In addition when we sell out, we allow a problem to continue and never fix it, and from there where will it end.

No disrespect intended toward you or anyone else including Mr. Bender.

 

[JoeyInCali]

The easiest way to make these discussions stop is to correct the problem, not to say that there is no problem in the first place.
Craig,
how would they correct it?
Get rid of that old table saw machine they have that still uses the same taper bar but because it uses a 10-ince saw blade, the pivot point/arc might be too tough for the saw blade to follow? Switch to CNC router system, make the collar thicker ( so it hugs the felt instead of floating ) and make the forearm's taper closer to that of the handle?
I'm interested in your viewpoint in solving this .

 

[Poolshootindon]

Its a players cue..

I bought this Bender cue to play with...Not to shuffle it around like many do here on AZ.. Like someone said the cue is 3 years old. It is not perfect. But it is 98% and that is good enough for me..

The main reason for the post was to show my dissapointment in the way that i have been ignored as a customer...

Powerlineman... Greg Sowder is no pool hall joe blow...He is very well respected in these parts.

So in you opinion i should spend $40 to ship the cue to Mike, then an addtional $20-$30 for each tip and then pay return shipping.

While cue building is an art, and Mike does make a great looking cue, he still needs to make sure that the customer is happy.. Mike did say he ran the cue on a lathe..I asked him to roll the cue on a flat surface to see the pin lift..no reply from him..

So my opinion in this matter is not important? At least give me piece of mind..

The cue was for sale.. How am i supposed to sell a cue to someone if the pin and joint lift of the table?

If i had sold the cue to someone here and they got the cue i bet i would have gotten an email right away about the lift in the pin...

I dont do business that way.. That is why i have not sold the cue.

Joey..The cue does have points..It is the cue in my avatar..

Thanks Bob for explaining about the lift..

At this time all i want is the cue back. Don

 

[BPG24]

BPG24-I know a guy that repairs tips. Just paid for one to be done. Most customs come with 2 shafts and I'd rather wait and let the man that built the cue to work on mine, instead of getting it done 'in time'.
.

If he ships the cue back to Alaska, he takes the chance of the cue being warped, stolen, or lost. That doesn't include time lost and huge cost for just a tip job. I guess you may not understand how those factors can come into play. Paying $20 for a local professional is a much better idea than spending $75 to ship it both ways and pay the cuemaker to put on a tip. Too many things can go wrong, especially when climate change is involved. I know guys that work at Fed Ex and UPS, I promise you that they do not care that you have a "fragile" package. Another factor

 

[SCCues]

Parabolic taper

First let me say that I am the "Bob" that Don referred to. When I went to Don's house and rolled the Bender butt on his table the joint did lift off the table about an 1/8". At that time I considered it warped. I ended up buying another Bender cue that is perfectly straight when rolled on a pool table and in a lathe (Greg Sowder check it for me). Greg also told me about the Parabolic taper in these type of cues could be misleading and must be turned on a lathe to verify straightness.

I then started researching Bender, SW, and Bluegrass cues regarding the Parabolic tapers on them. I verified that cues built this way need to be turned on a lathe by a experience cuemaker (to make sure the cue is dead center on both ends of the cue). This prevents the misleading "warp" in these cues when its simply the Parabolic taper showing up.

Don, I think your Bender cue is in fact straight and we both at the time thought it was warped simply because we didn't understand the Parabolic taper on these type of cues. Had we both known this we would of taken it to Greg Sowder to check it on a lathe.

I recommend when you get the cue back to take it over to Greg Sowder and have him check it on a lathe. If nothing else it would give you a better piece of mind knowing the cue is infact straight.

Thanks for clearing this parabolic taper issue up for a lot of us who didn't understand it. I've heard it mentioned before, but until I read your post I wasn't clear on it.....

James

 

[td873]

I would suggest trying to telephone...emails aren't always reliable.

If most cuemakers answered the phone all day, they would never get any work done. I believe email is a good method to communicate with them - and there is a written record in case something goes wrong.

And WRT the original post, it was too hard to decipher. Try using paragraphs or something. I gave up about 10 lines in.

-td

 

[ShootingArts]

making e-mail more reliable

If most cuemakers answered the phone all day, they would never get any work done. I believe email is a good method to communicate with them - and there is a written record in case something goes wrong.

And WRT the original post, it was too hard to decipher. Try using paragraphs or something. I gave up about 10 lines in.

-td

To add to that, it is possible to request a return receipt for an e-mail. All the receiver does is click on a button. Then the sender knows the e-mail has been opened. If you don't get a return receipt, you can assume that the person you sent it to didn't see the e-mail for any of a dozen reasons and send another or use a different form of communication.

Hu

 

[manwon]

The easiest way to make these discussions stop is to correct the problem, not to say that there is no problem in the first place.
Craig,
how would they correct it?
Get rid of that old table saw machine they have that still uses the same taper bar but because it uses a 10-ince saw blade, the pivot point/arc might be too tough for the saw blade to follow? Switch to CNC router system, make the collar thicker ( so it hugs the felt instead of floating ) and make the forearm's taper closer to that of the handle?
I'm interested in your viewpoint in solving this .

Joey, first are you agreeing that some cues that have this taper do have this problem?

The problem is not about the forearm hugging the felt or being raised. It comes down to the fact that when the front of the forearm is not in contact with the table it should still not wobble. Now since this only occurs with certain cues and not all cues there must be a difference / problem with the cues that have this wobble.

So my question is simple, if some cues do not have the problem and some do, and all the cues in question are made by the same person on the same equipment, there must be another answer other than the equipment used.

Now, I suspect that you use this taper on your cues, so please give me your prospective on why this happens. I suspect you have encountered it, and I also suspect that most likely more than me know what causes it.

I am also interested in how to solve this problem, and since you know that it occurs, I suspect you also know how to correct it or have some better idea's than I do.

No disrespect to Joey, I am interest in your opinion on this subject.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Joey, first are you agreeing that some cues that have this taper do have this problem?
On parabolic tapered cues with wraps, yes.
The "problem" I think is when they cut the wrap groove or the buttcap, they may not be dead-on nuts or round for that matter. And/or when they hand sand the A-joint area where there is drastic change of angle from forearm to handle.
When you roll the butt on the table, since the joint is OFF the felt, it is magnified. Straight taper butts might have this problem too but you just don't see it as much b/c the forearm sinks to the felt.
But, how would those V-points be dead-on nuts if there is a wobble on the joint and pin? I think that would be impossible. So therefore that forearm, pin center and center of the hole at the bottom is dead on nuts. They have to be. Not saying they don't warp either.

So my question is simple, if some cues do not have the problem and some do, and all the cues in question are made by the same person on the same equipment, there must be another answer other than the equipment used.
That I can't answer. I have not seen their taper machine.
Now, I suspect that you use this taper on your cues, so please give me your prospective on why this happens. I suspect you have encountered it, and I also suspect that most likely more than me know what causes it.
I don't. I don't have a parabolic taper bar. Besides, if it's DPK's taper, I won't copy it out of respect.
I am also interested in how to solve this problem, and since you know that it occurs, I suspect you also know how to correct it or have some better idea's than I do.
I think ALL major cue dealers should have a turner. Two dead-on nuts live centers.Stick the butt in there and if the pin, A-joint area and buttsleeve do not wobble based THOSE CENTERS, the butt is not crooked.
NOW, if you have this turner, now it gets more fun b/c you can now also spin straight-taper butts and see if they really have no wobble .

 

[qbilder]

You know you have a very good point, however, no two cues are a like, one may be judged perfect and others may not be. This really has nothing to do with any single cue maker, and all have turned out products that may have not been up to their normal standards, for what ever reason things happen, no one is perfect.

So let us talk about problems that stem from certain techniques if not executed perfectly. Now everyone has the right to choose how and what techniques that will be used to build their cues. If you choose a design that requires near perfection, and you are getting paid the big dollars to produce a perfect product, then you should do no less. I am very clear on the double or parabolic taper developed and used by David Paul Kersenbrock. I am also familiar with some of the cue makers / companies using this technique, Omgea DPK, South West, Bender, and many others.

There is also another cue maker who posts on this forum known as Billy Webb AKA Spiderweb. I have handled a number of Bills cues over the last 3 years and Bill uses this taper on his cues. I have talked with Billy on many occasions concerning this specific taper and how try as you will sometimes if every exterior portion of the cue is not perfect the finished product will have this wobble. Can it be corrected during facing certainly, only a few thousands will make this occur due to the taper. Like I said before, while it will not effect the cue concerning play, however, it effects the visual esthetic's of the cue.

Now every one knows that some people can and will allow this to effect their mental game. It also gives people an impression that things are not right, if they can see something and not understand it's cause to that individual that is imperfection. You or no one else can tell someone that a problem that can be seen is nothing, most will not listen.

Today many collectors, and dealers are in fact discounting cues with this taper that have a wobble. This is not conjecture, this is fact, so why should this problem not be disclosed during a sale of a cue and why should a customer be where the buck stops.

Again this really has nothing to do with Mr. Bender specifically, but to say because some one has done this or that, they can do no wrong, is the wrong thing to say, because no one is perfect.

The easiest way to make these discussions stop is to correct the problem, not to say that there is no problem in the first place.

Just my opinion, and you are certainly entitled to your's!!!!!

I never once said anybody can do no wrong. My point was that you are hardly qualified to critique Bender or any other master veteran builder, or their techniques. Study them all you wish, but to begin critiquing in public is wrong. If Bender or any veteran builder uses faulty methods, who are you to point it out & make the decision that these methods are wrong? One wobbly cue report is all it took for you to begin ranting on in-depth cue making methodology & criticizing our veteran builders. They have built & earned their reputation through years of consistently making customers happy. When you have become a veteran builder, and have a couple thousand cues under your belt, and have so few unsatisfied customers as Bender, then we can talk about how you are worthy of passing judgement. Until then, it's not your place.

This topic is about a customer who had a bad experience with a builder & felt the need to publicly vent, even before the transaction had come to a close. Right or wrong as he may be, it's the subject of the thread & that is what should be discussed. Discussing building techniques is for the cuemaker forum. Discussing a man's integrity should be a private matter & should be done only by those who know him on a close personal level. But this thread is a man venting his frustrations, and is not an open invitation to begin thrashing on our veteran builders.

I apologise to any I offend. That's not my intentions. I just don't like seeing this kind of thing. Bender does not belong to AZ & does not even read it. When he finds out, he won't even care that people are bashing him. But it's still inappropriate.

 

[manwon]

Joey, first are you agreeing that some cues that have this taper do have this problem?
On parabolic tapered cues with wraps, yes.
The "problem" I think is when they cut the wrap groove or the buttcap, they may not be dead-on nuts or round for that matter. And/or when they hand sand the A-joint area where there is drastic change of angle from forearm to handle.
When you roll the butt on the table, since the joint is OFF the felt, it is magnified. Straight taper butts might have this problem too but you just don't see it as much b/c the forearm sinks to the felt.
But, how would those V-points be dead-on nuts if there is a wobble on the joint and pin? I think that would be impossible. So therefore that forearm, pin center and center of the hole at the bottom is dead on nuts. They have to be. Not saying they don't warp either.

So my question is simple, if some cues do not have the problem and some do, and all the cues in question are made by the same person on the same equipment, there must be another answer other than the equipment used.
That I can't answer. I have not seen their taper machine.
Now, I suspect that you use this taper on your cues, so please give me your prospective on why this happens. I suspect you have encountered it, and I also suspect that most likely more than me know what causes it.
I don't. I don't have a parabolic taper bar. Besides, if it's DPK's taper, I won't copy it out of respect.
I am also interested in how to solve this problem, and since you know that it occurs, I suspect you also know how to correct it or have some better idea's than I do.
I think ALL major cue dealers should have a turner. Two dead-on nuts live centers.Stick the butt in there and if the pin, A-joint area and buttsleeve do not wobble based THOSE CENTERS, the butt is not crooked.
NOW, if you have this turner, now it gets more fun b/c you can now also spin straight-taper butts and see if they really have no wobble .

Joey, I agree with everything you have said, and everything is completely what I have been thinking. The only thing I would say in addition is that if any part of the finishing creates this occurrence at the joint it still is a imperfection that should be corrected. I am certain we both know by using a dial indicator the location of the problem can be found and corrected.

Thanks Joey, I appreciate / respect your knowledge and insight into this issue. Unlike others who wish to dismiss it as an attempted attack. In my opinion no one's insight should be dismissed and problems should not be denied only corrected. A good craftsman should never take offense to any issue that really exists, in fact they should be grateful that some one had the balls to say something.

Thanks again Joey!!

 

[manwon]

I never once said anybody can do no wrong. My point was that you are hardly qualified to critique Bender or any other master veteran builder, or their techniques. Study them all you wish, but to begin critiquing in public is wrong. If Bender or any veteran builder uses faulty methods, who are you to point it out & make the decision that these methods are wrong? One wobbly cue report is all it took for you to begin ranting on in-depth cue making methodology & criticizing our veteran builders. They have built & earned their reputation through years of consistently making customers happy. When you have become a veteran builder, and have a couple thousand cues under your belt, and have so few unsatisfied customers as Bender, then we can talk about how you are worthy of passing judgement. Until then, it's not your place.

This topic is about a customer who had a bad experience with a builder & felt the need to publicly vent, even before the transaction had come to a close. Right or wrong as he may be, it's the subject of the thread & that is what should be discussed. Discussing building techniques is for the cuemaker forum. Discussing a man's integrity should be a private matter & should be done only by those who know him on a close personal level. But this thread is a man venting his frustrations, and is not an open invitation to begin thrashing on our veteran builders.

I apologise to any I offend. That's not my intentions. I just don't like seeing this kind of thing. Bender does not belong to AZ & does not even read it. When he finds out, he won't even care that people are bashing him. But it's still inappropriate.

I never once said anybody can do no wrong. My point was that you are hardly qualified to critique Bender or any other master veteran builder, or their techniques. Study them all you wish, but to begin critiquing in public is wrong. If Bender or any veteran builder uses faulty methods, who are you to point it out & make the decision that these methods are wrong? One wobbly cue report is all it took for you to begin ranting on in-depth cue making methodology & criticizing our veteran builders. They have built & earned their reputation through years of consistently making customers happy. When you have become a veteran builder, and have a couple thousand cues under your belt, and have so few unsatisfied customers as Bender, then we can talk about how you are worthy of passing judgement. Until then, it's not your place.


My point is that anyone is qualified, to make an observation, especially having seen many cues by different makers with this problem. The methods are not in question, the perfection of a finished product is, and anyone who deals with these products as a dealer / retailer / repairman / and a assembler can make an educated comment based upon their knowledge concerning these products. I do not need to talk with you or prove to you anything regarding this subject. You apparently feel that you are the last word on this subject, and I think while you may be an experienced cue maker, you do not have a very good understanding or knowledge of this issue. In addition, it is not your place to tell me anything about my place, be concerned about your place, and what you do. In both posts all I have heard you comment on is status, status, and status. You appear to be the kind of person who would not admit you made a mistake if confronted with one, the first think you would think is who is this person that brought this to me, they are not my equal, they have not done what I have, so how can they say anything.

In my opinion to bring up issues like these can help everyone, those who have made the products with this problem may stop and think why is that happening, and correct it. These same people may not even know that it exists or how it is viewed by some. The question here is not disrespectful, or even being critical, it is however something that is based upon fact. Now, I am certain top cue makers like Mr. Bender or any others who use this design want their products to be perfect. They also want their customers to be happy, and anyone can make an educated comment based upon personal experience without it being an attack. The only people who feel attacked by comments about a real problem are closed minded and out of touch with the real world. In addition, when anyone feels that they can not learn something new every day they are either DEAD, or they are GOD. You see those at the top of any profession do understand this, and this is what gives them the edge needed for sucess.

In closing, I do agree that MR. Bender is a great cue maker, I personally love his designs and his cues. But, in the beginning of this thread the joint wobble was mentioned and this is not an isolated incident for cues using this taper, I have seen other cues with this problem by MR. Bender and other Top cue makers. This is more of an industry problem, that must either be accepted or corrected, however, no one including you, can say that it is not something that happens.

Have a nice day, we can agree to disagree, oh and by the way, this is not an attack it is however, a response and no disrespect is intended to you or any one else.