I'm sure that's true for many players - and I'm sure the opposite is true for many others. I think it depends on who you are.
pj
chgo
Non-Traditional Banking
- Thread starter SpiderWebComm
- Start date
I'm sure that's true for many players - and I'm sure the opposite is true for many others. I think it depends on who you are.
pj
chgo
Patrick Johnson said:
Respectfully, and strongly disagree. I'd double your bank game before you finished your first beer. Keep an open mind and stop c*ck-blocking your progress because you don't believe what is, is.:thumbup:
Powerfull video . . . I'm not sure I buy the bank theory but I'd buy a car from you in heartbeat.
I think feel is what comes from experience, and is a necessary addition to any system, but especially to these "one aim" systems. I think experience/feel are much more important in these systems than the minimal systematic aspects of them.
pj
chgo
Patrick Johnson said:
I think unless you were really knowledgeable with them, not sure how you could say that. Feel is required far less than traditional methods you refer to. I bank with all methods, so I would know how much feel I'm using for what. I hope we bump into each other so you can stand over me when I do this and I tell you where the tip will be before I even get into my stance. That's not feel, PJ.
SpiderWebComm said:
I can live with that. :smile:
If you'll buy the beers until my bank game doubles I'll let you.
Funny that you're always the one talking about keeping an open mind but I'm always the one spending time analyzing your ideas.
pj
chgo
Patrick Johnson said:I can live with that. :smile:
If you'll buy the beers until my bank game doubles I'll let you.
Funny that you're always the one talking about keeping an open mind but I'm always the one spending time analyzing your ideas.
pj
chgo
Did you try the technique in the video yet? Just curious.
SpiderWebComm said:
I would if I knew the systematic way to "pivot". If I'm just supposed to pivot until it looks right to me, that's just doing it by feel.
Remember I did try your reflected lights system - even went to the trouble to devise a test that would ensure I wasn't just aiming by feel. I bet that's more trouble than you ever took to test it.
pj
chgo
Patrick Johnson said:
I dont use feel with that either...i just connect the dots, with either a 1/2 tip of outside, no english or 1/2 tip of inside for everything. Although that works really well.... it's nothing compared to this information.
For the other guy asking about the pivot. For the center-center system, you can either just use back-hand english to pivot your tip 1/2 tip from center, or you can body-pivot by moving your hip (the way i showed in the video).
The air-pivot is more complicated. Just pivot the same way for that as I demoed in the first segment for ease of use. Eventually, you develop an air pivot after manually pivoting a million times. The motion is the same, really. I just like sliding in with an air pivot so my aim/sight/stick line are the same.
Patrick Johnson said:
The systematic way to pivot is to start with your tip dead-center and then pivot your body (not arm) so your tip moves 1/2 tip from center. That's systematic, right? It's like a BHE pivot except your bridge rotates with the stick.
The way I tested the reflection system is I followed the directions and watched whether the ball went or not
A few Q's for the unitiated:
When you pivot either direction (from the center-to-center position), aren't you putting english on the cue ball?
Also, is the pivot dependent on distance between the cue ball and the OB? i.e. more pivot for closer shots, or more for longer shots.
Can you shed some light on how this helps non-banks?
Thanks,
-td
Fraid not. Systematic would be if the system told me how much tip movement I need for what kind of shot. If you're telling me 1/2 tip works for all shots, I'll have to say "nuh uh".
What does "bridge rotates with the stick" mean? The bridge moves sideways to move the tip sideways, like with fronthand english? Do you hit offcenter and apply sidespin or do you end up hitting the cue ball in a different direction with centerball?
Don't you think these are essential details if you want somebody to be able to copy your actions?
pj
chgo
I wish that you had a close up overhead zoom camera to show how much you pivot for a given angle to the pocket and distance from the CB to the OB to the pocket etc.
I would seem that with either the center to center or center to edge method, the tip of the cue would be at the same angle for the same shot in both to get the "exact" same result.
I would seem that with either the center to center or center to edge method, the tip of the cue would be at the same angle for the same shot in both to get the "exact" same result.
Dave,
OK my turn. Your method looked reasonable. I see no issue with what you showed except (their is always a but) the Pivot method that PJ mentioned.
I've seen pivot methods taught by others and I'm sorry but I don't care for them. It's kind of like applying a formula and not understanding the theory. This is OK for most but sorry not for me. The pivot method does apply English as you illustrated and can/will work. My small problem with them is that they seem to be speed distant dependent. I know everything is but I find them somewhat "non-linear". I suspect you hit your shot warp 7 because you've "learned" how much squirt the cue ball will generate and how much check/throw the object ball will receive. You maintain your speed because that becomes your constant.
I've seen something comparable for shooting shots with inside English taught be a top pro. In the middle of his class he asked me in front of 20 students how I hit the shot (he was trying to possibly show me up...ok I was snickering on a adjoining table). I told him that I hit the ball with the required pace and adjusted my aim based on the amount of squirt I expected the cue to derive at required speed/distance and offset. To complicated he said and asked me to hit a few balls...my personal specialty. Well after I launched in 10 from various distance and speeds he said that that was "unteachable". Well I retorted that pool was a complicated game and if he wanted simple then he should take up darts. I asked him to demo his method. Well he made 5 in a row. Then I asked him to try a couple real firm and then a couple slow. Well we all know the rest. He missed all but one badly. The problem was his system had been tuned to ONE SPEED.
I like your bank skills and I'm sure it will help some on the board. Good job.
Nick "My Wife took my Tin Foil" Beretanos
OK my turn. Your method looked reasonable. I see no issue with what you showed except (their is always a but) the Pivot method that PJ mentioned.
I've seen pivot methods taught by others and I'm sorry but I don't care for them. It's kind of like applying a formula and not understanding the theory. This is OK for most but sorry not for me. The pivot method does apply English as you illustrated and can/will work. My small problem with them is that they seem to be speed distant dependent. I know everything is but I find them somewhat "non-linear". I suspect you hit your shot warp 7 because you've "learned" how much squirt the cue ball will generate and how much check/throw the object ball will receive. You maintain your speed because that becomes your constant.
I've seen something comparable for shooting shots with inside English taught be a top pro. In the middle of his class he asked me in front of 20 students how I hit the shot (he was trying to possibly show me up...ok I was snickering on a adjoining table). I told him that I hit the ball with the required pace and adjusted my aim based on the amount of squirt I expected the cue to derive at required speed/distance and offset. To complicated he said and asked me to hit a few balls...my personal specialty. Well after I launched in 10 from various distance and speeds he said that that was "unteachable". Well I retorted that pool was a complicated game and if he wanted simple then he should take up darts. I asked him to demo his method. Well he made 5 in a row. Then I asked him to try a couple real firm and then a couple slow. Well we all know the rest. He missed all but one badly. The problem was his system had been tuned to ONE SPEED.
I like your bank skills and I'm sure it will help some on the board. Good job.
Nick "My Wife took my Tin Foil" Beretanos
SpiderWebComm said:
Nick B said:
The system is actually a modified mirror system. The reason why you get the same results over such a wide range of angles is because the pivot sends you to the mirror point. With the center-to-edge system, the pivot is always the same....my tip ends at center every time (reverse BHE). With center-to-center, my tip starts at center, and depending on the shot is offset in a multiple of 1/2 tip every time.
I realize it looks like I'm feel banking, but I'm not. I hit firmly because it's how I personally bank. I can redo the video and pocket speed everything with the same results.
Hehe, this post will probably show just how untrained I really am.
First off, let me just say that I am not a 'player'. I'm just a "schnook" as you put it. And banking is definitely not my forte. In fact, I'll shoot an 80 degree cut or shoot a combination before I'll bank in most cases. I just don't usually feel comfortable shooting banks I think because I usually can't see the pocket I'm shooting at.
That said, about two years ago I started shooting banks experimenting with the "center-to-center" method. No one taught it to me, I was just trying to remove as many variables from the shot as possible and decided that by starting C2C would allow me to do that. Since adopting this method I have seen my accuracy go up on banks, though I can't remember ever making four or five in a row as you did in the video.
I do have one question: do you find this method as effective with reverse banks or cross banks?
Thanks for the video, by the way. Now that I've seen someone use it that obviously has a more defined understanding of it I think I can improve this part of my game even further.
First off, let me just say that I am not a 'player'. I'm just a "schnook" as you put it. And banking is definitely not my forte. In fact, I'll shoot an 80 degree cut or shoot a combination before I'll bank in most cases. I just don't usually feel comfortable shooting banks I think because I usually can't see the pocket I'm shooting at.
That said, about two years ago I started shooting banks experimenting with the "center-to-center" method. No one taught it to me, I was just trying to remove as many variables from the shot as possible and decided that by starting C2C would allow me to do that. Since adopting this method I have seen my accuracy go up on banks, though I can't remember ever making four or five in a row as you did in the video.
I do have one question: do you find this method as effective with reverse banks or cross banks?
Thanks for the video, by the way. Now that I've seen someone use it that obviously has a more defined understanding of it I think I can improve this part of my game even further.
Patrick Johnson said:
I'm confused how do you not understand this stuff. I've had like 15 people send me messages about how they can't believe they bank so well that way and you're grinding on it. Call Ron Vitello for a phone lesson. I'm wore out
P.S. I gave you bad info, my bad. I was thinking about something different. The bridge doesn't rotate. Just move your hip. Pretend it's BHE but don't move your back arm, rotate around the hip.
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rkim99 said:
Good question. No. I use a different method for those shots. Maybe when I get back from the event I'll do a quick video on that.
