Not sure it this is cheating or not.

Bishop

Bishop

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I got into a 9-ball game last night where the guy I was playing took his shot on the 7. The pocket was full of balls and the 7 hit one of the potted balls and poped back out onto the table.

The guy turns to me and says "you saw that, it was in". Then he proceeded to pick up the 7 and drop it in another pocket and continue playing. Now I didn't argue with the guy because it was only a 5 dollar game and I was 99% sure he wasn't going to beat me in this race to 10 since I've matched up with him before but its not something I would have done.

To me if the ball doesn't stay in the pocket its not in. When we were done playing my buddy mentioned to him kinda sarcastically that he should thank me for allowing him to put that 7 down a few racks back considering it was a money game. I didn't make a big to do about it but what would you guys have done.
 
it was a foul......he should have taken some balls out of the pocket. Id prob have given it to him but let him know i was giving it to him and that wasnt the rule.
 
You're right. If the ball ends up sitting on the table, then it's ON THE TABLE. Nice of you to let it be down, but not required.
 
the ball ends up on the table not in the pocket, he scammed you. You should have said something then not later. :cool: really he either hit it too hard but probably with too much spin.......but it sounds like you had already given in to him anyway so why complain lol. Sometimes, just sometimes you have to fight a bit off the table when youre fighting on the table. Look at Earl, he'll do that.....when necessary.
What would have I done. Said 'no way. Your shots over and that ball stays where it is and its ball in hand to me cause you just fouled by touching a ball'. That way, you might have rattled him enough to win...
 
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I think Scotty is correct and generous. Either the player was new and didn't know the rule or was trying to get one over on you.

One important item is to make sure the player is informed of the rule and that the shot was a gift. This would be a good time to judge an opponents character. If the situation was reversed---would you accept the gift or agree with the rule?
 
It's not a foul, but if it's on the table at the end of his turn, then it's on the table, it does not count. It's on the shooter to make sure that he clears the pocket (or in the case of hitting the back of the pocket and not contacting balls down in the leather, that he not hit it quite so hard). It's your shot, just like if he missed the shot.

Per the BCA General Rules of Pocket Billiards:

3.11 POCKETED BALLS
A ball is considered pocketed if as a result of an otherwise legal shot, it drops off the bed of the table into the pocket and remains there. (A ball that drops out of a ball return system onto the floor is not to be construed as a ball that has not remained pocketed.) A ball that rebounds from a pocket back onto the table bed is not a pocketed ball.
 
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Im not sure if its a foul unless neither the cue ball nor the object ball hit a rail. If you shoot a ball in the pocket and it hits the back of the pocket and comes back on the table, and the cue ball doesnt hit a rail, its considered not pocketed. If one of them does hit a rail, then it is not considered a pocketed ball and it is the other players shot. I know in one pocket, if you forget to clean your pocket out and you shoot a ball in and it bounces back on the table, it is not a pocketed ball. It is the shooting players responsibility to clear balls out of the pockets so that they stay down. JMO.

Southpaw
 
No foul, but as mentioned, it is the shooter's responsibility to clear the pocket BEFORE the shot. If it stays out, it doesn't count, and is the incoming players turn. You were being a 'nice guy' to let him slide...and chances are he would have been pissed, and quit you, if you pulled the rule on him, and took possession of the table. So it kinda depends on the situation...gambling for small stakes, no big deal...playing in a tournament, I'd take the mistake, and win the game.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
i guess i was thinking it was a foul because he picked up the 7 and pocketed it by hand......if he had just shot the ball in and it jumped back out it would have been a miss.
 
scottycoyote said:
i guess i was thinking it was a foul because he picked up the 7 and pocketed it by hand......if he had just shot the ball in and it jumped back out it would have been a miss.
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Agreed, but what do you then? Put it back on the table approximately where it was? This comes up a lot in one pocket and straight pool, you are responsible for keeping the pockets from getting filled up.
 
A friend of mine

was playing in the finals of the weekly 9 ball tournament last Saturday night, a handicapped tournament. Hill-to-hill, his opponent missed the 8 and left just right by the jaws on one side of the pocket. Cass goes to shoot the 8 and just come back across the other side for the 9 on the long rail, but he got too much ball which killed his cue ball speed, but the 8 popped down and back out again leaving an easy out for his opponent.

That wasn't the first time it happened on that table, which is usually the table for finals of our weekly tournaments, plus the leveling went haywire on it too.

That 8 ball shot cost Cass $60 since that was the difference between 1st and 2nd prize money.
 
alstl said:
Agreed, but what do you then? Put it back on the table approximately where it was? This comes up a lot in one pocket and straight pool, you are responsible for keeping the pockets from getting filled up.
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well im no referee but id think goin by texas express rules youd just take ball in hand and leave the 7 down.
 
1) Is what the shooter did a foul, assuming a rail WAS hit after contact? Under Texas Express, wouldn't the OP have the option to either leave the 7 where it was moved to (the pocket) or put it back where it was? OR, is it a foul simply because the object ball was moved deliberately? (Assuming cue ball fouls only, of course.)

2) If the shooter HAD NOT picked up the 7, would the shot be a foul, assuming that NO RAIL was hit after contact? What I mean is, does hitting the back of the pocket count as hitting a rail? I think it should.
 
Cuebacca said:
1) Is what the shooter did a foul, assuming a rail WAS hit after contact? Under Texas Express, wouldn't the OP have the option to either leave the 7 where it was moved to (the pocket) or put it back where it was? OR, is it a foul simply because the object ball was moved deliberately? (Assuming cue ball fouls only, of course.)

2) If the shooter HAD NOT picked up the 7, would the shot be a foul, assuming that NO RAIL was hit after contact? What I mean is, does hitting the back of the pocket count as hitting a rail? I think it should.
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correct answer.......
1.) NO FOUL HAD OCCURED
2.) 7 BALL STAYS ON THE TABLE
3.) PLAYER FORFEITS CONTROL OF TABLE

Now the ball popping out the pocket means that the ball never was considered in the pocket. It is a freak occurence, but does happen on poor equiptment. Since the ball was never pocketed the player loses his up at the table. Now that the player moved the 7-ball the 7-ball now gets placed at its resting place where it ended up after being ejected from the pocket. THE 7-BALL MUST BE POCKETED IN TEXAS EXPRESS RULES. THE ONLY STIPULATING RULE IS WHEN A BALL IS EJECTED OFF THE TABLE AND THAT BALL IS THAN POCKETED. Cue ball remains in its resting place after the ejected 7-ball. You do not get ball in hand unless the player fouls on the cue ball, no rails(pocket sides are considered part of the rail or BOUNDARIES) a ball or a ball leaves the table.

Hope this helps.

As for the gambling side you should have called him on it. The player should have know the rule anyways unless he is real new to pool. Who knows what the next scam he might try to pull on you.
 
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It is not a foul but he loser his turn because he did not legally pocket a ball. Haven't you ever noticed pros clearing out pockets before they shoot?

There is also times where I have intentionally shot hard enough to avoid a scratch by having the CB pop out a pocket. This is legal and not a scratch. You can do this when there is a hanger on the rail next to the side pocket. You cannot avoid a scratch to run it along the rail into the corner. If you shoot at the right the CB will hit the back of the side pocket and land back on the table. Not a scratch.
 
I can understand why you didnt call it on him, not wanting to lose a game with a player you feel you should beat. But now what do you do if your playing him some other time and it happens durring a hill/hill game? You let it go this time how will he react if you try and call it next time?

Just a thought.
 
Bishop said:
I got into a 9-ball game last night where the guy I was playing took his shot on the 7. The pocket was full of balls and the 7 hit one of the potted balls and poped back out onto the table.

The guy turns to me and says "you saw that, it was in". Then he proceeded to pick up the 7 and drop it in another pocket and continue playing. Now I didn't argue with the guy because it was only a 5 dollar game and I was 99% sure he wasn't going to beat me in this race to 10 since I've matched up with him before but its not something I would have done.

To me if the ball doesn't stay in the pocket its not in. When we were done playing my buddy mentioned to him kinda sarcastically that he should thank me for allowing him to put that 7 down a few racks back considering it was a money game. I didn't make a big to do about it but what would you guys have done.
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You get the ball in hand because yore opponent made a foul.7 ball stays in the pocket.Do not play with him next time if he quarrels with you on the rule.You should not even walk in the street he lives.
 
Scott Lee said:
No foul, but as mentioned, it is the shooter's responsibility to clear the pocket BEFORE the shot. If it stays out, it doesn't count, and is the incoming players turn. You were being a 'nice guy' to let him slide...and chances are he would have been pissed, and quit you, if you pulled the rule on him, and took possession of the table. So it kinda depends on the situation...gambling for small stakes, no big deal...playing in a tournament, I'd take the mistake, and win the game.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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The shooters turn at the table resulted in a foul by his picking up the 7 ball. If that happened in a refereed tournament, it would be treated as foul. In casual or money play---that decision is between the players.
 
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