Object Ball Skid

Shannon.spronk

Shannon.spronk

Anybody read this?
Silver Member
So I have noticed it more often recently that I will have an object ball skid on me. Usually not enough to cause me to miss, but I notice it anyway. At first I did not think much of it. I just thought dirty balls and chalk on the cue ball and such. The reason for this thread is that I am noticing it way more and I am wondering if it based on how I might be shooting. Are there shots that are more apt to cause object ball skid than other shots. Like for example medium speed stop shots or anything else?
 
Object ball skid that's significant enough to influence the shot is usually on follow shots at softer speeds. And the external conditions that add friction (dirt/talc powder/humidity, etc.) add to it all.
 
Could be a multitude of things, but it's generally accepted that shooting firmer will reduce the chance of a shot-affecting skid. Have you made any changes to recently, like shooting more softly, or polishing the balls, changing your chalk, etc?
 
victorl said:
Could be a multitude of things, but it's generally accepted that shooting firmer will reduce the chance of a shot-affecting skid. Have you made any changes to recently, like shooting more softly, or polishing the balls, changing your chalk, etc?
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I guess I am might be shooting a little softer. I have really been working on my touch over the last few months and have noticed it quite often since then. I have also switched over to the Russian Magic Chalk. No table at home so I doubt it is the balls since I have been seeing it at multiple places.
 
Normal throw (not skid) is maximized with softer shots, thicker cuts (up to half ball) and stun hits (no top or bottom rotation). But these things shouldn't cause more skids, which is an abnormal amount of throw caused by an abnormal amount of friction at the contact points - and it's usually enough to cause missed shots.

I'm guessing you're seeing more throw than you usually do (maybe because you're just paying more attention), but not actual skid.

pj
chgo
 
I was having a problem with skid that was pretty severe. I polished my balls and the problem completely disappeared.
 
There's a well-known statistic on skid shots, but I can't remember it anymore. It's supposedly a "On average, 1 out of every XXX shots during the normal course of playing pool generates a skid". I think it's somewhere in the 50's, but not sure. Anybody remember?
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Normal throw (not skid) is maximized with softer shots, thicker cuts (up to half ball) and stun hits (no top or bottom rotation). But these things shouldn't cause more skids, which is an abnormal amount of throw caused by an abnormal amount of friction at the contact points - and it's usually enough to cause missed shots.

I'm guessing you're seeing more throw than you usually do (maybe because you're just paying more attention), but not actual skid.
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Agreed. Sometimes people misinterpret or mislabel a large but typical amount of throw as skid/cling/kick. For those interested, more information and demonstrations on these topics can be found here:

maximum throw (CIT and SIT)

cling/skid/kick resource page

Enjoy,
Dave
 
DJ14.1 said:
There's a well-known statistic on skid shots, but I can't remember it anymore. It's supposedly a "On average, 1 out of every XXX shots during the normal course of playing pool generates a skid". I think it's somewhere in the 50's, but not sure. Anybody remember?
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That's from a George Onoda article in Billiards Digest. It's available on the sfbilliards.com web site. See www.sfbilliards.com/Misc/onoda_all_txt.pdf It's in about the fourth or fifth article. George estimated it as 1 in 100 or 200.
 
Bob Jewett said:
That's from a George Onoda article in Billiards Digest. It's available on the sfbilliards.com web site. See www.sfbilliards.com/Misc/onoda_all_txt.pdf It's in about the fourth or fifth article. George estimated it as 1 in 100 or 200.
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If one is using chalk that really sticks to the CB, and/or if one doesn't clean the CB frequently, and/or if one is playing will really old/worn/filthy balls, and/or if one cleans the balls with a product or substance that results in clingy balls, cling/skid/kick can occur much more frequently than 1 in 100 or 200 shots.

And again, if somebody misidentifies a large amount of throw (e.g., with a slow stun shots, or with small cut-angle shot with a medium amount of spin) by thinking of the throw as cling/skid/kick (because they don't expect the large amount of throw that is typical with those types of shots), then "it" can occur even more often.

Regards,
Dave
 
Lag/Speed....cut shots

Most have heard the term, walking up to the shot, but the key to playing cut shots and avoiding the dreaded skid when NOT using inside English or when cue ball speed is NOT fast is this. Walk up to the English....Never walk up to the shot, then go, oh I need more left or right and then NOT get back up and do a re-walk up.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
future757 said:
In my experience top and/or inside English causes the ball to skid most often
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I doubt that tip placement has anything to do with it. Do you have a reason in mind?
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The George Onoda article Bob mentioned (see pp. 13-14 here) provides some possible theoretical justification for this.

Although, I think a more practical explanation is that inside follow shots are often hit softly and with about 50% sidespin, both of which can results in significant throw (especially with a smallish cut angle).

Again, some people seem to confuse a typical amount of throw (which can be significant with certain types of shots) with cling/skid/kick (a "bad hit" resulting from an excessive amount of throw, well beyond what is expected for a given shot).

Regards,
Dave
 
future757 said:
In my experience top and/or inside English causes the ball to skid most often
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I am first going qualify that I know about CIT & SIT throw & I have from a rather young age.

I would agree with what you say here but I would say it is more prevalent for rather soft shots hit on the top inside diagonal.

I certainly am not sure as to why, but it sort of seems like that rotation at a certain speed somehow influences the cut collision when the speed matches some other contributing condition & I don't mean dirt or chalk on the ball at the contact point.

The reason I say some other contributing condition is because one can not readily recreate it. Miss the shot due to the skid & set it up again & hit it the exact same way & it will not skid again.

I think that there must be something to it as both you & I would choose the same type rotation of the cue ball.

Someone posted an article with a top snooker player & he was attributing it to atmospheric conditions when tables are set up near the stands of spectators but only in certain arenas.

I've seen someone attempt to totally debunk the theory that static electricity might be the cause.

Well like I said, trying to isolate it to ONE cause may not be the correct thing to do. It may very well be a combination of conditions that cause it other than when it's just a piece of chalk on the ball.

Best to You & All,
Rick
 
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future757:
In my experience top and/or inside English causes the ball to skid most often
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Me:
I doubt that tip placement has anything to do with it. Do you have a reason in mind?
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Dr Dave:
The George Onoda article Bob mentioned (see pp. 13-14 here) provides some possible theoretical justification for this.
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For those who haven't looked at this article, Onoda calculates that "fresh" chalk marks have a somewhat greater probability of ending up between the contact points on shots with some kinds of sidespin.

Although, I think a more practical explanation is that inside follow shots are often hit softly and with about 50% sidespin, both of which can results in significant throw (especially with a smallish cut angle).
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This seems more likely to me too, although I think Onoda's reasoning probably does account for some (small, random) number of skids. Anyway, more reason than I was giving credit for.

pj
chgo
 
It's frustrating to lose matches due to skid shots. Over time, because of humid pool halls and Big Mac and fries laden fingers racking the balls, I found that I play all thicker angle soft cut shots as if they'll skid. The solution is when you see a shot likely to skid, use a little outside English. Keeping the cue ball clean helps too. Under regular conditions, skid is mostly avoidable if you prepare for it. This might be something to go into the "best practices" category.
 
Does the size of the Cue-Ball or Weight of it have anything to do with a skid, if they are not the same as the object balls ?

i have recently discovered after many skids that the CB that was being used was smaller than the object balls.

i wonder if this has any bearing to the skid myth !!!

-Steve
 
stevekur1 said:
Does the size of the Cue-Ball or Weight of it have anything to do with a skid, if they are not the same as the object balls ?

i have recently discovered after many skids that the CB that was being used was smaller than the object balls.

i wonder if this has any bearing to the skid myth !!!

-Steve
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I don't think so. I suppose there could be an effect that looks like skid - like maybe the OB hops a little because the CB hits it below the equator...? Or the lighter CB hops and hits the OB above center...?

Optically, seems like a smaller CB would cause you to aim too thin, not too fat (too fat might look like skid).

pj <- in other words, I dunno
chgo
 
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