Ok another run out test...

rikdee said:
In my humble opinion, this is a clear case of the safety being the same or less probable than shooting the seven for some sort of position on the eight. When facing such probablility, take the shot and the chance to win.

_Rick
Click to expand...


No, there ARE safeties but you have to think modestly. If you're going to play safe, your goal is to make sure your opponent doesn't have an easy shot on the 7. If you think you can put the 8/9 inbetween GREAT but I don't think that's easy and no solution given thus far resembles what is physically possible.
 
Fatboy said:
i dont see hitting the 7 on either side and using the 8,9 as blockers period, to many moving parts for me(conteolling the speed of both balls and landing perfect is beyond my skill level., now perhaps efren or a geat 1P champion might be able to do it but I know my limitations and I wouldnt shoot a shot I have almost no wchance of pulling off even if its a shot, so thats why i would tie up the 8,9 and give up bih and hope for the best, for me this layout is a loser either way, cna i push out? otherwise i'm a loser here.
Click to expand...


Don't feel alone here. These options are very low percentage.

Also, I will never agree with deliberately fouling in 9ball UNLESS a foul seems very probable. You're inherently putting yourself at a disadvantage every time.
 
This is another reason why great shooters like Two Shot Push Out---it really puts interest in the game.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
No, there ARE safeties but you have to think modestly. If you're going to play safe, your goal is to make sure your opponent doesn't have an easy shot on the 7. If you think you can put the 8/9 inbetween GREAT but I don't think that's easy and no solution given thus far resembles what is physically possible.
Click to expand...


No, you're not getting the point. What I said was an effective safe from the shown position is no more likely (for a good player) than making the seven and getting out. If the safety is no more likely than the offensive play. shot to win.
 
rikdee said:
No, you're not getting the point. What I said was an effective safe from the shown position is no more likely (for a good player) than making the seven and getting out. If the safety is no more likely than the offensive play. shot to win.
Click to expand...


Oh, I'm aware of what you meant. I think you misunderstood ME. I'm saying you SHOULD play safe. The shot has too many risks that you simply don't need to take.
 
rikdee said:
No, you're not getting the point. What I said was an effective safe from the shown position is no more likely (for a good player) than making the seven and getting out. If the safety is no more likely than the offensive play. shot to win.
Click to expand...


Oh, I'm aware of what you meant. I think you misunderstood ME. I'm saying you SHOULD play safe. The shot has too many risks that you simply don't need to take.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
This safety option doesn't work, either. There is a trade - Either you hit the necessary contact point in order to get the 7ball behind the 9 and have your cueball race around the table OR you hit the 7ball too thin to get it to the safe zone and your desired cueball path is secure. Either way, you're selling out.
Click to expand...

:confused:

I think the correct way to put it is that it doesn't work for you. I'd shoot this safety in a heartbeat. I do realize that some players may not have the speed control necessary to make this shot - or the accuracy for the hit, but I possess both. I teach shots like this to my students and have them practice it. This is an elementary safety.

FWIW, I played (basically) this same shot on Louis Ulrich in a tournament back in September and I got ball in hand for doing so. So much for it not working.
lol
 
Jude, I would not hesitate to cut that seven and expect to make it. If I fall good on the eight, I'm out. If I don't, I re-assess. I would predict, relative to my own skill level, that a safe on the eight would most likey be easier than the initial safe you suggest. Sorry, just my approach.

_Rick
 
rikdee said:
Jude, I would not hesitate to cut that seven and expect to make it. If I fall good on the eight, I'm out. If I don't, I re-assess. I would predict, relative to my own skill level, that a safe on the eight would most likey be easier than the initial safe you suggest. Sorry, just my approach.

_Rick
Click to expand...


I haven't suggested a safety.
 
This is my solution. Please note - my goal is 7ball placement over cueball placement. Although it would be wonderful if I can achieve the path that will get me behind the 8/9, I would feel like I accomplished my goal if I can get the 7-ball to settle right in the middle of the headrail

CueTable Help

 
rikdee said:
In my humble opinion, this is a clear case of the safety being the same or less probable than shooting the seven for some sort of position on the eight. When facing such probablility, take the shot and the chance to win.

_Rick
Click to expand...

Perhaps when talking about these particular safeties, but on a tight Diamond table, shooting this shot is a pure sellout. You don't HAVE to get position at all, and if you jaw this ball, (which is very easy to do shooting it at this angle), you virtually insure your opponent has an easy shot.

In MY humble opinion, any safety is better than shooting here. Heck, even shooting the seven two rails to get close to the end rail at the other end of the table is better than going for it.

I'b bet against anyone if they want to go for this runout on a tight table.

Russ
 
Jude, I responded to rikdee before I kept reading. Your shot is exactly what I was talking about.

Here's my thinking: Yes, I realize if I don't hook him, he will have a basic two rail safe to put me back behind the 8 or 9.

So what?

I'm hooked, but I am not going to miss the kick. In fact, depending on where he leaves the 7, I have a nice three rail kick into the back side of the 7, with a good probability of "sticking" the cue ball when I hit the 7.

I like your safe, and I think that there's not much to fear from your opponent even if you let him see the 7.

Russ
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
This safety option doesn't work, either. There is a trade - Either you hit the necessary contact point in order to get the 7ball behind the 9 and have your cueball race around the table OR you hit the 7ball too thin to get it to the safe zone and your desired cueball path is secure. Either way, you're selling out.
Click to expand...
I believe this safety does work if you eliminate the third rail for the cue ball and just use the two rails. This gets both balls to the desired position.
 
go for the gold...

rikdee said:
Jude, I would not hesitate to cut that seven and expect to make it. If I fall good on the eight, I'm out. If I don't, I re-assess. I would predict, relative to my own skill level, that a safe on the eight would most likey be easier than the initial safe you suggest. Sorry, just my approach.

_Rick
Click to expand...

I completely agree... the 7 appears to be about 8 inches off the foot rail and the CB is a diamond past the side pocket... not automatic, but fairly comfortable and certainly a green light situation. Commitment to the shot is critical.
 
can anybody make a ball here???

Russ Chewning said:
Perhaps when talking about these particular safeties, but on a tight Diamond table, shooting this shot is a pure sellout. You don't HAVE to get position at all, and if you jaw this ball, (which is very easy to do shooting it at this angle), you virtually insure your opponent has an easy shot.

In MY humble opinion, any safety is better than shooting here. Heck, even shooting the seven two rails to get close to the end rail at the other end of the table is better than going for it.

I'b bet against anyone if they want to go for this runout on a tight table.

Russ
Click to expand...

Holy Cow! It seems that most people are afraid to take the shot... what do you want?... a worse situation?... if you can't make the 7, you probably can't make the 8 unless your position is perfect...

If you think the 7 is hard... try and make the 8 with speed to get reasonable on the 9 (unless you are perfect on the 8)

Its hill-hill... your and your opponent must be close in skill level... would he go for the shot?... I think yes.

I don't think missing and leaving the 7 near the hole guarantees your opponent getting good on the 8.

My 2 cents...
 
I don't like any of the safeties on the seven, as cue ball control from against the rail will prove very difficult. I'll try to cut the seven, favoring the overcut for the defense. If I make this shot, I figure I'll end up with one of the following: 1) a regular shot on the eight in one of the corners, 2) a two way bank on the eight into one of the corner pcokets, or 3) a safety chance on the eight that is easier to execute than anything I'm looking at now.

When the safety is as tough as the shot, play the shot. In this position, producing the safety when the cue ball is frozen to the long rail is a tall order indeed.
 
dabarbr said:
I believe this safety does work if you eliminate the third rail for the cue ball and just use the two rails. This gets both balls to the desired position.
Click to expand...

....ditto....
 
I think this option doesn't put you in a very good position. The return safe is too easy. Like Dabarbr, I like Blackjacks shot, but without going to the end rail (just 2 rails instead of 3). With the 9 out that far, you have quite a bit of room to where your speed control doesn't have to be absolutely perfect in order to hook your opponent. With the option you presented here, your opponent will simply play the same shot that Blackjack diagrammed, just from the other side.


Jude Rosenstock said:
This is my solution. Please note - my goal is 7ball placement over cueball placement. Although it would be wonderful if I can achieve the path that will get me behind the 8/9, I would feel like I accomplished my goal if I can get the 7-ball to settle right in the middle of the headrail

CueTable Help

Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top