Ok, the craps

[Grady]

Here are my general guidelines for beating craps:
1. You must play at a place where somebody wins once in a while, not a bust-out joint like the Sands Regency in Reno.
2. Play only at night. There are rarely big wins in the daytime.
3. Use my "pocket system" with your cash. Assuming that you're into the ebb and flow of a good game, meaning you're winning and losing bets, go to your pocket occasionally with chips, not enough to destroy the integrity of the bankroll but enough so that you don't go broke if you lose what you're playing with on the table. The house doesn't like players to do this but it's your money. Examples from my past: In Atlantic City, when I once won $60,000 in 20 minutes, when I cashed in I had $17,000 in chips in my pockets. Another time in Reno, I cashed out $48,000 and had $13,000 in my pockets.
4. Try to begin play at a table where people are hollering, having a good time and have chips in front of them.
5. If you're playing where the odds aren't more than the 3, 4 and 5 times odds on the points always take the full odds. For newish players this means you can take 3 times odds on the 4 and 10, 4 times odds on the 5 and 9 and 5 times odds on the 6 and 8.
6. You MUST believe that the dice will pass.
7. Press intelligently, with courage but don't be crazy in this department.Just now, in Vegas I had a nice "hump roll", meaning if I got past this I am gonna win upwards of $15,000. The shooter had just made a five, where I had had a $250 flat bet and taked $1,000 odds. Now I wager $400 on the pass line and he gets an 8 for a point. I take two dimes ($2,000) odds and make three come bets for only $100 but with full odds. Now, if he makes the 8 , I get $2,400 to $2,000 for my five times odds I've taken and they have to pay off the $400 flat bet, a total of $5,200. If he had made the point, I would've scaled back to a $250 flat bet and played smart and carefully from there.
He didn't make the point and just in case I made a mistake of some kind, I had $4,400 in my pockets.
8. You have to understand that today everything is different at craps. In the old days, we pool players had many high up in the 5 figure wins when it was $500 limit and single odds. Today that would be utterly impossible. You have to win your money in short bursts, say from 10 minutes to 30 minutes.
9. Don't make bets based on hunches, don't make "sucker bets", like the field or the hard ways and perhaps most importantly, be patient. If the dice aren't passing a little, nothing will make you a winner. One of my greatest strengths is holding down my losses. However, I don't put any kind of "unit" restriction on my wins. For one example, I wandered into the Trop one Thur.,where I discovered that they had a five times odds special on Thursdays. I was on my way home from Reno to South Carolina, driving and I stopped in Vegas to visit a lady I liked. Anyway, I only bought $800 in chips and I won $65,000 in a couple of hours.
I hope these may help you with your dice game.

 

[Grady]

I forgot two important things

I forgot two big things:
1. Don't be a "don't bettor". Don't bettors never win big.
2. If you're an average person with bankrolls of $1,000 or less to play with, always try to find a five dollar table. If you play at a ten dollar table, you can lose twenty or twenty five per cent of your cash on the first decision.

 

[JG-in-KY]

Hey Grady, I like a lot of your strategy for playing the game. What would you say is your winning percentage when playing craps? I have rolled the dice pretty high myself. I agree it is probably your best bet to cash in a casino, but their is easier ways to make money than playing in a casino!

 

[chefjeff]

In craps with double odds, you still lose 50 cents for every $100 bet, on average. All decisions about that game follow from that. Anything else is just wishful thinking and delusion.

Money management is important but doesn't change your odds one bit.

Play a beatable* blackjack table with a good counting system, or rational poker or sports and you've got a better than even chance, not considering the time that could have been used to create something of real value.

Jeff Livingston

* Ref. Arnold Snyder's Blackjack for Profit, p. 74, Profit Index.

 

[DelaWho???]

Thanks Grady

For another informative post. I'll give your advice a try next time I get to Atlantic City....


McCue Banger McCue

 

[JoeyA]

For another informative post. I'll give your advice a try next time I get to Atlantic City....


McCue Banger McCue

Banger, don't forget to send Grady some jelly when you make the big score based on his advice. A few hundred is always appreciated but a dime or two is guaranteed to make him smile.
JoeyA

 

[DelaWho???]

Banger, don't forget to send Grady some jelly when you make the big score based on his advice. A few hundred is always appreciated but a dime or two is guaranteed to make him smile.
JoeyA

No problemo.....as long as he's willing to help absorb my losses if it doesn't work out....

McCue Banger McCue

 

[jazznpool]

Hey Grady...thanks and I followed but #8 doesn't seem logical (e.g., 10x odds is way better than single odds). Can you elaborate?

Martin

8. You have to understand that today everything is different at craps. In the old days, we pool players had many high up in the 5 figure wins when it was $500 limit and single odds. Today that would be utterly impossible. You have to win your money in short bursts, say from 10 minutes to 30 minutes.

 

[alstl]

In craps with double odds, you still lose 50 cents for every $100 bet, on average. All decisions about that game follow from that. Anything else is just wishful thinking and delusion.

Money management is important but doesn't change your odds one bit.

Play a beatable* blackjack table with a good counting system, or rational poker or sports and you've got a better than even chance, not considering the time that could have been used to create something of real value.

Jeff Livingston

* Ref. Arnold Snyder's Blackjack for Profit, p. 74, Profit Index.

Agreed, although few will put in the work required to learn how.

 

[Grady]

10 times is too exotic for me!!

10 times odds doesn't work for most gamblers because their bankrolls, including mine most of the time, aren't big enough. Actually, the nice win I had in Reno at Miz' Senior event had $1,000 limit and double odds. Maybe it's just me but also I've noticed that in places with 10 times odds the dice do mathematically impossible things for long periods of time.

 

[straybullet]

I forgot two big things:
1. Don't be a "don't bettor". Don't bettors never win big.
2. If you're an average person with bankrolls of $1,000 or less to play with, always try to find a five dollar table. If you play at a ten dollar table, you can lose twenty or twenty five per cent of your cash on the first decision.

LOL...@ the title of the thread...

Grady, I've told you before that you'd get the craps if you stayed on that Drambuii and potato salad diet.


Its great to see you posting again!

 

[chefjeff]

Agreed, although few will put in the work required to learn how.

Hi Al,

Thanks for your informed input. I read about your blackjack playing elsewhere on AZ and know that you know...ya know?

Mysticism, being based on laziness and irrationality, creates many false excuses and erroneous paths to real wealth. Starting with a losing game is just one of those. But passing onto others subjective personal experience disguised as objective advice just compounds the error. I hope we have helped keep some ignorant gamblers here from hurting themselves.

But then again, somebody's gotta pay for the lights and lounge shows!

Jeff Livingston

 

[JPB]

In craps with double odds, you still lose 50 cents for every $100 bet, on average. All decisions about that game follow from that. Anything else is just wishful thinking and delusion.

Money management is important but doesn't change your odds one bit.

Play a beatable* blackjack table with a good counting system, or rational poker or sports and you've got a better than even chance, not considering the time that could have been used to create something of real value.

Jeff Livingston

* Ref. Arnold Snyder's Blackjack for Profit, p. 74, Profit Index.

Agree with this of course. My guess though is that very few players ever get close enough to being good enough to beat blackjack or sports. Some counters still probably play break even or negative EV from mistakes. Poker has been easier during the boom, but I think a lot of players are in for a rude surprise when the games get tougher. Some players I think have already wondered why they won big for a while and then started losing.

 

[Grady]

extra cosiderations

I didn't mention this in my rough hypothesis: Only about 5 per cent of gamblers know how to play and only about 5 per cent of them are also "dangerous", meaning they know how to win big.
Craps is tough, especially as casinos have taken an extra edge, which I won't and cannot speak of here. Poker and blackjack require skill, patience, courage and a beginning bankroll.
Most people aren't gamblers in the traditional sense. They want to lose their money in the casinos. Let me tell you folks a little story.
One time in Socal I'm playing poker with Alex, Tang and Busta, 10 and 20 Hold-em, if it matters. Tang and Alex were talented and patient but Busta was just an awful player.He lost about $1,000 in a couple of hours. He had played about every hand.
So I get home and I call up Lebron. "Mike," I say, "Why don't I loan Busta a couple of my poker books so he'll be a much better player and at least have a chance to win?"
"Grady,look," answers Mike, "Francisco doesn't really want to win. He just wants to socialize, tell a few jokes, lose 7 or 8 hundred dollars and quit."
I like Busta a lot and this isn't a knock on him but he's a terrible craps player,too. Efren, on the other hand, is an excellent dice player.

 

[billychips]

can't help myself

Here are my general guidelines for beating craps:
1. You must play at a place where somebody wins once in a while, not a bust-out joint like the Sands Regency in Reno.
2. Play only at night. There are rarely big wins in the daytime.
3. Use my "pocket system" with your cash. Assuming that you're into the ebb and flow of a good game, meaning you're winning and losing bets, go to your pocket occasionally with chips, not enough to destroy the integrity of the bankroll but enough so that you don't go broke if you lose what you're playing with on the table. The house doesn't like players to do this but it's your money. Examples from my past: In Atlantic City, when I once won $60,000 in 20 minutes, when I cashed in I had $17,000 in chips in my pockets. Another time in Reno, I cashed out $48,000 and had $13,000 in my pockets.
4. Try to begin play at a table where people are hollering, having a good time and have chips in front of them.
5. If you're playing where the odds aren't more than the 3, 4 and 5 times odds on the points always take the full odds. For newish players this means you can take 3 times odds on the 4 and 10, 4 times odds on the 5 and 9 and 5 times odds on the 6 and 8.
6. You MUST believe that the dice will pass.
7. Press intelligently, with courage but don't be crazy in this department.Just now, in Vegas I had a nice "hump roll", meaning if I got past this I am gonna win upwards of $15,000. The shooter had just made a five, where I had had a $250 flat bet and taked $1,000 odds. Now I wager $400 on the pass line and he gets an 8 for a point. I take two dimes ($2,000) odds and make three come bets for only $100 but with full odds. Now, if he makes the 8 , I get $2,400 to $2,000 for my five times odds I've taken and they have to pay off the $400 flat bet, a total of $5,200. If he had made the point, I would've scaled back to a $250 flat bet and played smart and carefully from there.
He didn't make the point and just in case I made a mistake of some kind, I had $4,400 in my pockets.
8. You have to understand that today everything is different at craps. In the old days, we pool players had many high up in the 5 figure wins when it was $500 limit and single odds. Today that would be utterly impossible. You have to win your money in short bursts, say from 10 minutes to 30 minutes.
9. Don't make bets based on hunches, don't make "sucker bets", like the field or the hard ways and perhaps most importantly, be patient. If the dice aren't passing a little, nothing will make you a winner. One of my greatest strengths is holding down my losses. However, I don't put any kind of "unit" restriction on my wins. For one example, I wandered into the Trop one Thur.,where I discovered that they had a five times odds special on Thursdays. I was on my way home from Reno to South Carolina, driving and I stopped in Vegas to visit a lady I liked. Anyway, I only bought $800 in chips and I won $65,000 in a couple of hours.
I hope these may help you with your dice game.

Sorry Grady, but I can't help myself. I was looking forward to reading what your "system" was in regards to dice. WOW!!! Don't play during the day? Nobody wins? Did you ever consider that the reason you see more big winners at night is because more people are playing? Just a thought! Putting chips in your pocket??? Are you kidding me??? I am sorry Grady, I know this post was meant to be informative, but it is just plain dumb. Do you really think the dice know what time of day it is? Do you really think "smuggling" chips increase your wins? WOW!!! I have read it all!!

 

[Grady]

I'll try again, "Chips"

Look, it's not smuggling chips. It's my money. If you can't understand the difference between ending up broke and ending up with thousands in your pocket, I can't help you.
In Reno, last month, Cliff was $11,000 ahead. I noticed this and said to him," Cliff, Why don't you give me half of that and I'll hang on to it for you so you can go home with money." Of course, no amount of money is enough for the Cliffs of the billiard community. He declined my offer and he went home broke.
In Vegas just now, I only had $1,400 to gamble with. I got a little lucky the first night and cashed out $8,000. Over the next day and a half I lost back about a third of that but I made sure that I got home with a profit.
By the way, I learned these tenets the hard way. There were a few times that I lost back forty thousand and more, that I had been ahead. Honestly, for a lifelong gambler like me, I don't think there's a worse feeling in the world than to book a big winner and foolishly end up broke.

 

[Hal2]

Odds in Vegas, are not the same

10 times odds doesn't work for most gamblers because their bankrolls, including mine most of the time, aren't big enough. Actually, the nice win I had in Reno at Miz' Senior event had $1,000 limit and double odds. Maybe it's just me but also I've noticed that in places with 10 times odds the dice do mathematically impossible things for long periods of time.

Grady,
Much has changed in the game of craps. When my wife was dealing the game(30 years ago) she said the only place you could find double odds was downtown Vegas.
By the way, she hates it when I tell anyone at the craps table that she was one of the first women to deal the game. Then she feels she has to win however it rarely works out.
Regards,
Hal in Ohio

 

[oncepkt]

I gave up working on being a good bj counter when a friend, who is a good counter, was ambushed by a pit super. The friend was told he had to bet flat. The zinger is that he was only betting green in 1 to 3 or 4 units and $100 down. I guess he scared 'em. He complained to the gaming commision (yeah, I know, they can rob you however they want to) but, of course, that was a dead end. And the casinos are always trying to devise new ways to defeat counters. So without better insight, its too much of an up hill battle.

Poker seems to be the best bet as far as I'm concerned, but a grind. With a good understanding of craps, along with good money mgt, its my second choice. But I can see craps as a first choice if someone knows the game, since thats where you can win the most and win it faster.

 

[ajrack]

Gambling in a casino

I dealt Craps for over 10 years .. Blackjack for about 2 years .. Roulette and Poker for about one year each > in the old days...Hacienda/ Fremont / Stardust (yes, when Rosenthal and Spilotro were around) / Golden Nugget / and a few others. I've seen over a million dollars at one time, on the layout in front of me, And, I dealt to a blackjack player who lost about $500,000 in an hour.
One of the best Craps wins I dealt to, was a $22,000 win in about 15 minutes (3pm to about 3.15pm) with only the one shooter on the table...every bet he made, seemed to come up on the next roll (he started with $300) ! The longest hand in minutes I dealt to, was about a 2hr 20 minute hand...the lady started with $5 in 25 cent chips and ended up over two hours later with about $60,000 (2am to 4.30am)
I have seen 8 hard 8's hit back to back / 6 box cars back to back / 16 > 7's or 11's before a number was rolled / these kinds of things we tend to remember when we see them ourselves.
Assuming you get a little luck ....
If you want to win a lot of money > play Craps!!!
If you want to control your risk and try to win a decent amount > Play Blackjack.
If you just want to enjoy the Casino and watch the other folks gambling > play Roulette or Keno. You can last a long time, have a few drinks and just relax.
Grady has some good points, and be sure to hit your pants with some of your chips from time to time.
Before I moved to Vegas, we drove from LA a couple of times a month, I took a few self addressed envelopes with me just in case I made a little score. Mailed some back to myself from time to time and one weekend when I arrived home I had over $1700 !!! Not bad when your'e going to college!!!

 

[jay helfert]

I dealt Craps for over 10 years .. Blackjack for about 2 years .. Roulette and Poker for about one year each > in the old days...Hacienda/ Fremont / Stardust (yes, when Rosenthal and Spilotro were around) / Golden Nugget / and a few others. I've seen over a million dollars at one time, on the layout in front of me, And, I dealt to a blackjack player who lost about $500,000 in an hour.
One of the best Craps wins I dealt to, was a $22,000 win in about 15 minutes (3pm to about 3.15pm) with only the one shooter on the table...every bet he made, seemed to come up on the next roll (he started with $300) ! The longest hand in minutes I dealt to, was about a 2hr 20 minute hand...the lady started with $5 in 25 cent chips and ended up over two hours later with about $60,000 (2am to 4.30am)
I have seen 8 hard 8's hit back to back / 6 box cars back to back / 16 > 7's or 11's before a number was rolled / these kinds of things we tend to remember when we see them ourselves.
Assuming you get a little luck ....
If you want to win a lot of money > play Craps!!!
If you want to control your risk and try to win a decent amount > Play Blackjack.
If you just want to enjoy the Casino and watch the other folks gambling > play Roulette or Keno. You can last a long time, have a few drinks and just relax.
Grady has some good points, and be sure to hit your pants with some of your chips from time to time.
Before I moved to Vegas, we drove from LA a couple of times a month, I took a few self addressed envelopes with me just in case I made a little score. Mailed some back to myself from time to time and one weekend when I arrived home I had over $1700 !!! Not bad when your'e going to college!!!

That's an old Richie Florence trick. If he made a BJ score he would run down to the nearest 7-11 and buy some envelopes and then get some stamps. He would grab some stationary at the casino front desk, and start stuffing envelopes with a thousand dollars in each one (inside the stationary). He'd mail a few off and play some more the next day.

If he won, more envelopes hit the mail. This would continue until he went broke, and the casino comps ran out. One time in the course of a week, Richie sent himself home $22,000 and left Vegas with about $40. I drove him home to collect. Once back in LA, he had no casinos to go off in. So he headed to the track. But that's another story.