Olathe!!!! What A Joke!!!

crosseyedjoe said:
Nothing devious about my question, I was just wondering if you're a transplanted European because you spelled another as "anouther." I was trying to guess who the other player you are talking about. If you answered YES to my question, I was gonna say SVB was the one complaining. Peace.
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Just a bad speller. Must be from the Virginia public schoolin'. Couldn't possibly be my fault? No harm taken. God bless America!
 
I think this whole situation sums up the problems with Pool ever being viewed as a sport. And that is that too many players treat it more like a chess game than a game of skill. And maybe that is why Asian and European players are treated as athletes. Because they play with a bravado that other athletes do, They try to win games with their skill.
People remember pro athletes that do things that ordinary athlete cant.
The same should be said of "Pro" pool players, they are supposed to take and make shots that an ordinary pool player cant.
They didnt do anything illegal, IMO, just a little unethical.
If you want to be viewed as a sport than do what the other sports do.
Respect is earned, beat him on the felt with your stroke, not some obscure rule.
 
Oh, Then how about stealing signs in Baseball, Oh and it is only holding in football if you get caught, Yeah they never grab a jersey in basketball. I sure I could go on. The one was a tough shot passing the shot as he did was a very smart move. It was not playing teams. It was merely giving himself the best chance to win.
 
Its a weak move. Many of you have posted about wanting Pool to become viewed as a real sport. To win money, sure right thing to do.
To earn respect, we lost A LOT. What he did was tantamount to taking a "Do-Over". How do you want to be taken seriously as a sport , if you condone this sort of thing happening in a professional tournament.
He showed one of the top players in the world "Hey I cant take this shot, Do it again"
Nice way to earn respect. I wonder if there were any possible sponsors there to witness it??
 
rackem said:
The one was a tough shot passing the shot as he did was a very smart move. It was not playing teams. It was merely giving himself the best chance to win.
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And Maybe SM didn't like the rest of the table after making the one, even if he thought it would go. Doesn't matter, his choice. Or, he could have decided that he didn't like his chances at the out and took the shot anyway. Poor decision.
 
Whatever the case may be, cheating (DONT THINK SO) or not....these 2 young men deserve what they got. Shane has been a top contender for awhile now, w/4 jr national championships, glad to see him get back in the limelight a little. Banks is always very competitive. All I can say is it is done and over, Mcminn won, and I am glad he did. I've known him a little over 5 yrs.

On another note, I talked to Mcwhorter saturday evening in olathe, and this guy has more gamble then ALMOST anybody I know. I jsut don't agree w/some of his statements on here.
 
It just struck me that, if Jamie McWhorter and Fast Larry ever met, they would probably think they were long-lost brothers. Maybe Jamie is FL's protege. :D
 
gulfportdoc said:
It looks to me like we have a gaping double standard on exhibit here. There have been many of reports of collusion by Phillipino players against non-Phillipinos. Whether or not those accusations have been true is one thing. Not much is ever said about it. But let there be even a single accusation of collusion by American players, and the long knives come out-- and by other Americans. I wonder if there is a similar outcry in the Phillipines against their players if there are similar accusations? Or for that matter, is anyone shocked anywhere?

Doc
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If ever a fix among Filipinos against somebody are in motion, you won't
know it, that's why you don't even hear a whimper about this.

That's how good they are, be it winning, dumping or chopping somebody up...
 
gopi-1 said:
If ever a fix among Filipinos against somebody are in motion, you won't
know it, that's why you don't even hear a whimper about this.

That's how good they are, be it winning, dumping or chopping somebody up...
Click to expand...

Alex Pagulayan once told me that he would never gamble with another Filipino here in the States, kind of like a respect that they share with each other.

Many Filipino players who travel on a frequent basis here in the United States have stakehorses, oftentimes American stakehorses. Americans like to bet their money with these thoroughbred Filipino players. Whatever they do win, they have to chop it up with the stakehorse.

I think sometimes they may make savers with each other if they have to play against each other in a tournament, and I personally do not see anything wrong with that. It's kind of like a courtesy one player gives to another player that is usually a good friend, like a 10-percent saver to help out with tournament and travel expenses.

I don't have any knowledge of how the Filipino players interact with each other on Filipino soil, but here in the States, they're interested in one thing, and that's making money. A U.S. dollar goes much further in Philippines than it does here.

JAM
 
JAM said:
Alex Pagulayan once told me that he would never gamble with another Filipino here in the States, kind of like a respect that they share with each other.

Many Filipino players who travel on a frequent basis here in the United States have stakehorses, oftentimes American stakehorses. Americans like to bet their money with these thoroughbred Filipino players. Whatever they do win, they have to chop it up with the stakehorse.

I think sometimes they may make savers with each other if they have to play against each other in a tournament, and I personally do not see anything wrong with that. It's kind of like a courtesy one player gives to another player that is usually a good friend, like a 10-percent saver to help out with tournament and travel expenses.

I don't have any knowledge of how the Filipino players interact with each other on Filipino soil, but here in the States, they're interested in one thing, and that's making money. A U.S. dollar goes much further in Philippines than it does here.

JAM
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Sorry Jen if I stimulated you in a way, but my post was meant to be a
"sarcasm" to doc, who always finds a way to flame Filipinos. He's probably
getting sick and tired of hearing/reading, "Filipinos won this, and that and
again!" :p
 
gopi-1 said:
Sorry Jen if I stimulated you in a way, but my post was meant to be a
"sarcasm" to doc, who always finds a way to flame Filipinos. He's probably
getting sick and tired of hearing/reading, "Filipinos won this, and that and
again!" :p
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Doc is right, though. If an American gets bashed for "allegedly" -- don't forget the word "allegedly" in here -- doing the same thing as a Filipino pool player, then what's good for the goose is good for the gander! :p

It's a dog-eat-dog-world out there, and only the strong survive. Strong players even struggle competing in pool tournaments on a regular basis.

Nobody knows if there was a chop-chop for sure unless they are one of the two parties who did the chop-chop. Everything else is only speculation, and believe me, these days there is definitely more speculation going around than there is of actual chop-chops.

JAM
 
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gopi-1 said:
Sorry Jen if I stimulated you in a way, but my post was meant to be a
"sarcasm" to doc, who always finds a way to flame Filipinos. He's probably
getting sick and tired of hearing/reading, "Filipinos won this, and that and
again!" :p
Click to expand...

Sorry, gopi, can't agree. Doc, like me and many of us, support US players and when it is suggested that players from over the pond are above dumping etc. it has a ring of Barbara Streisand to it.
 
What I don't understand is why they had tables with three and four players? Even in the beginning. They should of had five and six players on a table until it got whittled down from there. That would have taken out a lot of collusion right there.

But it doesn't matter that Shane gave up the shot. Even if it was a dead hanger it was the smart move to give the shot back and INSURE a spot in the finals rather than to give Orcullo ANY chance at getting back in the game.

In this case it's the RULES that need to be changed. Kinda like the farce a few years ago in Trick Shot Magic where every made shot counted as a point. So when one player had a substantial lead over the other player he just made straight in shots for his "tricks" so he would get his points and eliminate any chance for the other player to catch up. They changed the rules.

As for Banks bunting the 8 - it was over at that point anyway as Orcullo had quit.

I am mad at Orcullo though. It would have been something to see him put a six pack on em' and be right back in the game.

And why not play the finals ring game rules? Man stick it out to the end all the way.

Well, it was a learning experience for sure, too bad Scotty T didn't get farther cuz he was shooting LIGHTS OUT for a while.

I wonder how Grady's Rules would do for a Ring Game format? - make it ball in hand any time the player at the table doesn't sink a ball AND it costs $100 and I bet you'll see an HONEST EFFORT every time.
 
Teaming Up - Why is it that teaming up is accepted in other sports but not pool? I am NOT saying that Shane and Mike or ANYONE else teamed up here.

The question is why don't we just accept it as part of the game that players are going to form alliances to further their chances and their income?

When I go on the road with my buddies I don't ever work against them. If we meet up in a tournament the strongest player gets through. Like the weaker bikers block for the stronger ones on the team. Do you think Lance Armstrong won all those trophies all by himself?

I guess pool is supposed to be the ultimate individualist sport. It's the challenge of the person against the table as well as against a single opponent. But in a tournament setting it is foolish for players to not make alliances and savers and try to better their chances. It happens in all professional sports. It's a PROFESSION and professionals do the things that further their carreers and maximize their incomes.

Where I think the problem is comes with all the people who like to BET on the players and therefore think that they OWN them. I am not talking about stakehorses who have a direct business arrangement. I am talking about people who bet on the side and buy players in the calcutta. The players OWE these people nothing.

I want to see all players playing their heart out with no need for savers and deals. I'd also like to see them not have to get on the net and beg for backers. Then we would see a true SPORTING event without the taint. Until the players collude to dump the bookies that is :-)
 
I think the best players just had a bad luck on the rotation sequence that's why they all lost.

[Repost]
If you follow a guy that gives his 110%, when he missed, the table for the most part is easy pickin' because the object ball is most likely close to the pocket and the cue ball is not snookered because the "honest" player is also playing position, does allowing the next player to survive longer. Now if you are the player following a player who is not giving his all to pocket a ball and position the cue ball, you will probably find yourself trying to pocket an almost randomly placed object ball, and the cue ball might end up snookered.

And this gets frustrating when you are the player who's always making an "honest effort" and ended up just opening the table for someone to pick-up thus your eventual demise.

I still think we need a better rule to eliminate the "honest effort" rule. The contention is that does Shane "honestly" think that the object ball can't be pocketed or it's just hard? Should he make an "honest effort" to pocket it instead of passing?
 
hemicudas said:
Sorry, gopi, can't agree. Doc, like me and many of us, support US players and when it is suggested that players from over the pond are above dumping etc. it has a ring of Barbara Streisand to it.
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I ask you this, who cried foul?
 
Honest effort does not apply to the person considering taking a shot or passing it back. It does not matter if the object ball is straight in - the player at the table who has the choice can choose to take the shot or pass it back. Honest effort ONLY applies to the person actually shooting a shot.

The shooter is the one who has to TRY and make the shot without regard to the position left to the person who follows them.

In this type of ring game you are NOT supposed to try and prevent the guy following you from having a shot. You are supposed to make an HONEST EFFORT to pocket the ball you are shooting at.

In Golf you are expected to HOLD YOUR MAN and prevent him from having a shot and in most places they play where the person who sells out the game pays double.

Shane McMinn did absolutely NOTHING wrong in passing the shot back to Banks. He didn't bend the rules, he didn't collude, he made a wise decision based on the situation at the moment. Whatever else may be said, on this particular shot Shane was totally and completely in the right to decide to pass the shot back.
 
John Barton said:
Honest effort does not apply to the person considering taking a shot or passing it back. It does not matter if the object ball is straight in - the player at the table who has the choice can choose to take the shot or pass it back. Honest effort ONLY applies to the person actually shooting a shot.

The shooter is the one who has to TRY and make the shot without regard to the position left to the person who follows them.

In this type of ring game you are NOT supposed to try and prevent the guy following you from having a shot. You are supposed to make an HONEST EFFORT to pocket the ball you are shooting at.

In Golf you are expected to HOLD YOUR MAN and prevent him from having a shot and in most places they play where the person who sells out the game pays double.

Shane McMinn did absolutely NOTHING wrong in passing the shot back to Banks. He didn't bend the rules, he didn't collude, he made a wise decision based on the situation at the moment. Whatever else may be said, on this particular shot Shane was totally and completely in the right to decide to pass the shot back.
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Totally,,,,,,,,,,,100%,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Correct, John. Any variable to this is simply wrong.
 
hemicudas said:
Sorry, gopi, can't agree. Doc, like me and many of us, support US players and when it is suggested that players from over the pond are above dumping etc. it has a ring of Barbara Streisand to it.
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I got your point hemicudas but the thing is, if there's no ripple, there's no
wave. It's all hearsay, that's why we don't hear these things about Filipinos
often.

I know for a fact that they ALWAYS play to win, savers or not except for a
few occasions (Kiamco vs. Gabica which is still unproven for the bonus money).
Most of the pool people assumed and predicted that Kiamco will win but
we've heard nothing out of the norm from the railbirds watching the finals.
There were no questionable misses, deliberately losing CB position, or dogged
shots from the two, specially Gabica.

That reminded me of the skins game between Deuel, Daulton?, Parica and
Sambajon. All Sambajon needs to do is to beat Parica to win the 72,000
skins that was up for grabs. Guess what? Parica played his heart out and
was even caught on TV mocking Sambajon with a wide grin on his face
dropping the balls in succession. They went to sudden death and Sambajon
eventually won the whole thing. It was sooo easy for Parica to lay up a li'l
bit if they were in cahoots but he didn't.
 
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