Olathe!!!! What A Joke!!!

[Ky Boy]

Now I can't get that King of Cars rap song out of my head: Http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_EyizRrh8E&mode=related&search=

This guy's a 30-year-old car salesman, and he has made a FORTUNE in everything but cars: websites, TV show, videos, music CDs.

If a car salesman can do it, dag nab it, a pool player should be able to make a fortune, maybe doing something other than playing pool, like this egg!

Chop-chop, baby!

JAM

The only bad part for me is that Jamie Mc has the same amount of 'greenies as I do and he is not well liked around these parts.

 

[The Saw]

Late last night anouther player involved in the ring game posted to "The Action Report" forum. He was none too happy. Said he would never go back there. He was mad about anouther incident along the same lines as this one being discussed. He was basically accusing one of them of "bumping" the two ball down the table and giving the table to his buddy. I would have posted the quote, but the web site is down. JCIN asked the poster to verify his identity or he would pull the post. When the site comes back up, the authors screen name will be very recognizable to all that watched the tourny. I hope it was a prank, because like others have said, it would put anouther nail in the coffin of the American pool playing scene.

It was posted by James Walden and JCIN verified that in the post.... James fealt he got pinched, much the same that Dennis did. I sweated 7-8 hours of the webcast Sunday night and the one thing I will say for Dennis and James is that they were the only ones giving 110% honest effort every time they got a look at the table, IMO. They were trying to run out every single time no matter how tough the balls were laying. I didn't see that out of the others all of the time. It appeared to me that the later it went in the match Banks/SM weren't TRYING to run out when the balls were tough. Did anyone break the rules as they were set before the match? Not exactly, but that defipends on how you interpret "Honest Effort". If the 1 ball had not been passed back to Banks (the shot that prompted Dennis to unscrew) and Shane had shot the one and tried to use "honest effort" he may not have been able to run out (the balls were laying a little funny to run out) which would have sent Dennis back to the table and a chance to get back in the thick of things. And by the way, that one ball was a very easy shot for anyone above B player speed, much less pro calibre.... Jamie was mad when it happened, everyone that was watching the webcast knew that. But it speaks volumes to me that he is still mad about it after he won his bet! And him singling out Dan Tull for not putting a stop to it when it happened is justified. If it happened at a tournament that I was hosting they would have been put in check, post haste! And the coup de grace is that James Walden has publicly went on the record saying that he is sure that he got chopped and said that he will not go back to Shooters because of the way Dan let things transpire. I've seen James play more than most here and have never seen him get hot, whimper, or whine one single time! If James is hot, there really was/is a problem........

Saw

 

[mosconiac]

It appeared to me that the later it went in the match Banks/SM weren't TRYING to run out when the balls were tough.

Holy Fuk! How d@mn good is this Banks kid if you think he wasn't trying?!?!? Are you telling me that he's so strong that he can accumulate an enormous chip lead over players the likes of Walden, McMinn, and Orcullo and not even try? That's a strong horse!

 

[crosseyedjoe]

Holy Fuk! How d@mn good is this Banks kid if you think he wasn't trying?!?!? Are you telling me that he's so strong that he can accumulate an enormous chip lead over players the likes of Walden, McMinn, and Orcullo and not even try? That's a strong horse!

Not to inflame anyone, I think what Saw is saying is that someone was just trying to pick up on someone else "honest effort". If you follow a guy that gives his 110%, when he missed, the table for the most part is easy pickin' because the object ball is most likely close to the pocket and the cue ball is not snookered because the "honest" player is also playing position, does allowing the next player to survive longer. Now if you are the player following a player who is not giving his all to pocket a ball, you will probably find yourself trying to pocket an almost randomly placed object ball, and the cue ball might end up snookered. And this gets frustrating when you are the player who's always making an "honest effort" and ended up just opening the table for someone to pick-up thus your eventual demise.


However, I still believe (of course without this "shady" dealing) ring-game is the best format for 2nd-tier players to go toe-to-toe with top-level players without getting any weight.

 

[The Saw]

Holy Fuk! How d@mn good is this Banks kid if you think he wasn't trying?!?!? Are you telling me that he's so strong that he can accumulate an enormous chip lead over players the likes of Walden, McMinn, and Orcullo and not even try? That's a strong horse!

Banks was trying just like the rest early on, slamming balls if he had to try to get something to go. But IMO, when his stack started to dwindle it seemed to me that he got defensive (especially when James and Dennis were in gear and stringing racks)....

Saw

 

[MikeM]

The only bad part for me is that Jamie Mc has the same amount of 'greenies as I do and he is not well liked around these parts.

Greenies sent. This newbies back itches too!

 

[corvette1340]

Now I can't get that King of Cars rap song out of my head: Http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_EyizRrh8E&mode=related&search=

This guy's a 30-year-old car salesman, and he has made a FORTUNE in everything but cars: websites, TV show, videos, music CDs.

If a car salesman can do it, dag nab it, a pool player should be able to make a fortune, maybe doing something other than playing pool, like this egg!

Chop-chop, baby!

JAM

He's made a fortune in cars too. His father owns the largest Hummer dealership in Nevada and Towbin Dodge is an extremely lucrative dealership as well. My dad has made a few deals with him through our dealership.

 

[Aaron_S]

Maybe this deserves a new thread, but I think it would be interesting to poll people to see what they would do in the following ring-game scenario.

You are at the table, but you figure you're only 10% to get out. OTOH, you figure you have a 70% or better chance of getting back to the table in the same rack if you were to miss without disturbing the balls greatly. Two of your available shots are: 1) a long straight-in 2-ball that you figure to make 80% of the time, but that leads to a tough shot on the 3, which is just the beginning in what will surely be an extremely tough out -OR- 2) a long, crooked 2-10 combo that you only figure to make 5% of the time, but which includes a "moral" safe.

What do you shoot, and why?

 

[Scottster]

IT WILL ONLY TAKE ONE TOURNAMENT AND ONE PRESCIDENT....IF THEY PLAYERS DO SOMETHING OUT OF LINE ...DON'T PAY THEM THEN NEXT TIME THEY WILL KNOW BETTER AND MAYBE JUST MAYBE SOMEDAY WE COULD ELIMINATE SAVERS AND CHOPPING AND ALL THE LITTLE SHADY THINGS THAT PLAYERS DO AND NEVER ARE PUNISHED FOR THEM...IT WILL ONLY TAKE ONE INCIDENT OF NOT PAYING THE PLAYERS FOR DOING SOMETHING SHADY AND NOBODY WILL EVER DO IT AGAIN BECAUSE THEY WILL BE SO AFRAID THAT THEY WONT GET PAID...............

AND SOMEDAY ARE SPORT COULD BE LOOKED UPON AS A RESPECTABLE GAME AND NOT A GAME OF CROOKS..............

For the love of God... PLease remove this reply before Kevin Trudeau Reads it and uses it as a justifiable reason not to pay anymore......

 

[arian dacongan]

how did it end -up

It looks to me like we have a gaping double standard on exhibit here. There have been many of reports of collusion by Phillipino players against non-Phillipinos. Whether or not those accusations have been true is one thing. Not much is ever said about it. But let there be even a single accusation of collusion by American players, and the long knives come out-- and by other Americans. I wonder if there is a similar outcry in the Phillipines against their players if there are similar accusations? Or for that matter, is anyone shocked anywhere?

Doc

how did this end up becoming anything close to filipinos vs. american thing...look ..out of the blue you injected the race thing...

orcullo never said anything,,,not one thing,,,all you filipino bashers,,,when a filipino looses ,,they never complained,,,, theres no proof that a dumping ever occured...

i guess you can always accuse,,,

 

[arian dacongan]

you're worse

you made a good point. Let's see, how fast would an American player
go out in a ring game playing with all Filapinos? Not to mention, the Puyat team tag teaming on tournaments to spread the wealth around, and letting their 2nd tier of players make a name for themselves.

I don't think anyone is in the positon to pass 'moral judgments' on any player
as long as they played within the rules. How old are you, McWhorter, 22, 23, or 12? I hear you don't have near as much 'Bravado' in person as you like to portray on the Internet. And it doesn't take much when all you are trying to do if find a 'LOCK' on a matchup. If you really think Corey is that good, let him play Dennis.

than Mcwhiner here...where is your proof of filipino pool players wealth spreading conspiracy ...all this is blind accusations..,

you see filipino solid groupings and teaming on the road and you assume that they are coniving,,,come on man...i guess that's why many american players loves the filipino players because win or loose...they remain professional- not perfect anyways

 

[JamieMcWhorter]

Millions Of Peaches...millions Of Peaches....peaches For Me....peaches For You......peaches For Everyone..........i Like Peaches..................

 

[Alex Kanapilly]

Maybe this deserves a new thread, but I think it would be interesting to poll people to see what they would do in the following ring-game scenario.

You are at the table, but you figure you're only 10% to get out. OTOH, you figure you have a 70% or better chance of getting back to the table in the same rack if you were to miss without disturbing the balls greatly. Two of your available shots are: 1) a long straight-in 2-ball that you figure to make 80% of the time, but that leads to a tough shot on the 3, which is just the beginning in what will surely be an extremely tough out -OR- 2) a long, crooked 2-10 combo that you only figure to make 5% of the time, but which includes a "moral" safe.

What do you shoot, and why?

I would shoot to make something for sure, probably #1. I've played in hundreds of ring games and have always made an honest attempt at getting out. Of course I'm usually just playing $1 on the 5 and $2 on the 9, but still... the concept of "Honest Attempt" is at the heart of a ring game, without that the rest of the rules don't make sense.

 

[jay helfert]

than Mcwhiner here...where is your proof of filipino pool players wealth spreading conspiracy ...all this is blind accusations..,

you see filipino solid groupings and teaming on the road and you assume that they are coniving,,,come on man...i guess that's why many american players loves the filipino players because win or loose...they remain professional- not perfect anyways

Just to set the record straight. I've directed countless events with filipino players in the field, many of whom came together and are rooming together. They laugh and joke with each other, but when it comes time to play each other, it gets deadly serious. They WANT to beat their countryman, just to move up in the filipino pecking order. Sometimes these are the best matches in the entire tournament, watching these guys bang heads.

Sure, sometimes a situation comes up like with Kiamco and Gabica at the U.S. Bar Table Championship, but that is the exception rather than the rule.
I remember many memorable matches like Parica vs. Bustamante in the Finals at Crystal Park Casino in L.A. a few years back. Parica bet on himself to win this match and he did. It was a battle that went down to the wire.

And how about when Efren played Busti in the Derby City One Pocket last year. He blasted his old buddy. I remember Efren vs. Luat and Parica vs. Alex and so many other filipino match ups. If you watch some of the Accu-Stat DVD's you'll see what I mean. Bottom line, these guys are playing hard to win. Even if they make a "saver" they still want that 'W' and the bragging rights. They can laugh about it afterwards.

 

[Aaron_S]

I would shoot to make something for sure, probably #1. I've played in hundreds of ring games and have always made an honest attempt at getting out. Of course I'm usually just playing $1 on the 5 and $2 on the 9, but still... the concept of "Honest Attempt" is at the heart of a ring game, without that the rest of the rules don't make sense.

Yeah. It gets kind of difficult, though, to draw the line b/w what is and what is not an "honest attempt". It could be argued that the 2-10 combo is just as much of an honest attempt; the shot is actually more aggressive offensively, it just happens be a shot that will result in a safety in the case of a miss. It's not a clear cut situation at all, and I've actually played in ring games where we decided that safety play would be allowed, simply to avoid that particular conflict. In the end, somebody's gonna have a shot at something eventually.

Aaron

 

[pool4u]

It was no accident that Shane M. and Mike B. did so well. They broke good, and they played good behind it. They deserve it and I congratulate them. Sure, they wanted Dennis out of the picture. It moves both of them up $5,000! Next time boys, just don't make it so obvious.

That puts it in a nutshell for me. Thanks, Jay.

I was there. When Shane passed the shot back to Mike I heard someone say "Boy, that was smart." And I admit I had to agree ... at the time. The first thing I thought of was a final table at a poker tournament and the short stack is forced to go all in. The other two players just call and check it down to get him eliminated.

But, no, this isn't poker. So I guess that's an unfair comparison. But how can you tell if someone is making an honest effort on a ball anyway? Okay, yes, it was pretty obvious.

I asked the TD if Shane did anything against the rules. The answer was no. Some people thought maybe Orcullo should have called the TD over to ref right after it happened, but I don't think anything would have changed.

I have to say, I absolutely loved the tournament. It helped that a local favorite was still in it to the end. I'm not so sure I would have stayed there until 3:30 AM to watch if Banks wasn't still in it.

All-in-all, I'd be happy to watch it all over again, even with the controversial ending. The ring-game format made for a much more exciting tournament to watch. Seeing someone like Parica and Matlock actually blast into balls was unique.

It doesn't help that a big-name player was going around saying he thought everyone should leave and not watch the finals because the tournament was crap. Kinda childish.

Oh, and one more thing... It was also said (early at the tournament) that this format favors Banks style since he's a free-wheeler. Just another little note for those who complained later about him sh*tting balls in all over the place.

Just my thoughts.

 

[chevybob20]

crosseyedjoe, it shouldn't matter where someone is from, we should all just get along together.

 

[chevybob20]

Nothing really important, but are you a European?

Born and raised in the good ol' USA.

 

[uwate]

That puts it in a nutshell for me. Thanks, Jay.

I was there. When Shane passed the shot back to Mike I heard someone say "Boy, that was smart." And I admit I had to agree ... at the time. The first thing I thought of was a final table at a poker tournament and the short stack is forced to go all in. The other two players just call and check it down to get him eliminated.

But, no, this isn't poker. So I guess that's an unfair comparison. But how can you tell if someone is making an honest effort on a ball anyway? Okay, yes, it was pretty obvious.

I asked the TD if Shane did anything against the rules. The answer was no. Some people thought maybe Orcullo should have called the TD over to ref right after it happened, but I don't think anything would have changed.

I have to say, I absolutely loved the tournament. It helped that a local favorite was still in it to the end. I'm not so sure I would have stayed there until 3:30 AM to watch if Banks wasn't still in it.

All-in-all, I'd be happy to watch it all over again, even with the controversial ending. The ring-game format made for a much more exciting tournament to watch. Seeing someone like Parica and Matlock actually blast into balls was unique.

It doesn't help that a big-name player was going around saying he thought everyone should leave and not watch the finals because the tournament was crap. Kinda childish.

Oh, and one more thing... It was also said (early at the tournament) that this format favors Banks style since he's a free-wheeler. Just another little note for those who complained later about him sh*tting balls in all over the place.

Just my thoughts.

This was a great post. Your analysis of what it was like being there is very sharp and adds alot to this thread.

 

[crosseyedjoe]

crosseyedjoe, it shouldn't matter where someone is from, we should all just get along together.

Nothing devious about my question, I was just wondering if you're a transplanted European because you spelled another as "anouther." I was trying to guess who the other player you are talking about. If you answered YES to my question, I was gonna say SVB was the one complaining. Peace.