Old days 9ball rules

[Newton]

I was playing with some good friends which I started playing pool with -
back in the mid 80's - the other day. Long time since we have met but it
was fun.

However, old days must of course be discussed and we all kind of agreed
that we seemed to remember that we had to call the 9 ball in the 80's.
Now we don't and I was just wondering if we remembered correct and why
was this rule removed?

Would for sure remove some of the lucky shots in 9 ball, but I guess the
need for breakbox and the like is still required since we could break the
wing ball as regular as turns to the toilet but 9 ball on the break would be harder
Or was there some one which figured out how to break the 9 ball on a regular basis ?

Was just wondering.

K

 

[Scott Lee]

Newton...Yeah, and it used to be 2-shot shootout too. No 1-foul, ball in hand rules, like today. When I played, you had to call ALL balls, including the 9...and everything spotted back up, if pocketed illegally.

The rules changed when the McDermott Texas Express 9-ball Tour got started. Texas Express rules (created by Rockin' Robin/Robin Adair, randyg/Randy Goettlicher, and John McChesney), changed things to ball in hand, to make the game go faster, and create a potential format for t.v. That tour was wildly successful for several years (these three guys, and some others, logged hundreds of thousands of miles, running this tour), until McDermott pulled the plug on sponsorship. The Texas Express Tour continued on for a while, but without major sponsorship, it finally petered out (Robin or Randy will correct me, if I'm wrong...).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

 

[Newton]

OoooooK. May be we got it wrong then. Or possibly we just remembered
the 9 ball call because the we usually did not call any of the others if it was
not a combo or something else.

Cool to hear the story behind it. Do you know when McDermott
pulled out and the rules change (year) ?

Kent

 

[Pushout]

I started playing seriously in '74 or '75, pushout 9 ball, no ball in hand unless two fouls made before hand. Never called any balls, not even the 9 ball, unless there was a "spot" ball to be called, ie: the call 8.
I never even heard of this until the late '90s. Few people playing 9 ball today even know these rules, let alone understand how to play it. It's like Straight Pool, in that knowing the rules and knowing how the game is actually played are two entirely different things.

 

[Scott Lee]

Pushout...Back in those days, because there were no real set rules, you kinda played whatever rules were in vogue, wherever you were! I learned a LOOOOONG time ago, to always ask, "What rules are we playing by", before I matched up with somebody! My favorite variation, was...any pay balls that went in early (on a legal hit) were respotted (you still got paid), until they went down in order; and many times we played "double on the run". That meant that even playing for $1 on the 5, and $2 on the 9, you could potentially make several money balls, run the rack, and cash in for $20-$50 a game, if you were playing a ring game, with 3 or 4 guys! Ah...those were the days! LOL

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I started playing seriously in '74 or '75, pushout 9 ball, no ball in hand unless two fouls made before hand. Never called any balls, not even the 9 ball, unless there was a "spot" ball to be called, ie: the call 8.
I never even heard of this until the late '90s. Few people playing 9 ball today even know these rules, let alone understand how to play it. It's like Straight Pool, in that knowing the rules and knowing how the game is actually played are two entirely different things.

 

[Myk]

Scott, that brings back memories of many big scores and bad beats. I lost about $140 playing $2/$5 ring game on one rack playing that way once.

Pushout...Back in those days, because there were no real set rules, you kinda played whatever rules were in vogue, wherever you were! I learned a LOOOOONG time ago, to always ask, "What rules are we playing by", before I matched up with somebody! My favorite variation, was...any pay balls that went in early (on a legal hit) were respotted (you still got paid), until they went down in order; and many times we played "double on the run". That meant that even playing for $1 on the 5, and $2 on the 9, you could potentially make several money balls, run the rack, and cash in for $20-$50 a game, if you were playing a ring game, with 3 or 4 guys! Ah...those were the days! LOL

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

 

[Pushout]

Pushout...Back in those days, because there were no real set rules, you kinda played whatever rules were in vogue, wherever you were! I learned a LOOOOONG time ago, to always ask, "What rules are we playing by", before I matched up with somebody! My favorite variation, was...any pay balls that went in early (on a legal hit) were respotted (you still got paid), until they went down in order; and many times we played "double on the run". That meant that even playing for $1 on the 5, and $2 on the 9, you could potentially make several money balls, run the rack, and cash in for $20-$50 a game, if you were playing a ring game, with 3 or 4 guys! Ah...those were the days! LOL

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Yeah, I remember asking about rules from time to time but everywhere I played in the North East the rules were pretty much the same. I remember making the 5 and 9 both on the break, spotting both, and running out. Believe it or not! Only did that two, maybe three times, IIRC. I didn't play a whole lot of ring games, either.

 

[Fatboy]

i didnt like the old rules....

spotting balls in 9ball never sat right with me, when my opponent fouls on the break and say he made 3 balls, i would get BIH behind the line. With almost no chance at running out, he fouled and I get BIH in a bad position. 3 spotted balls all froze up and God forbid the 1 ball rolled up table it would get spotted at the head of the stack, 4 spotted balls, and the other guy fouled. The wrong guy is getting the penatly.

now if those 3 balls stayed down and I get BIH where ever I like then he is going to pay a price for his foul. I like that better.



Having said all that I like call pocket 10 ball the best, I believe thats a far better game than any version of 9ball. it is more of a grind for sure but for the $$$ its great and worth the grind. for rail birds its brutal.


I do miss the ring games from the 80's, but the way i play now i would have been banned from them anyways

 

[The Saw]

spotting balls in 9ball never sat right with me, when my opponent fouls on the break and say he made 3 balls, i would get BIH behind the line. With almost no chance at running out, he fouled and I get BIH in a bad position. 3 spotted balls all froze up and God forbid the 1 ball rolled up table it would get spotted at the head of the stack, 4 spotted balls, and the other guy fouled. The wrong guy is getting the penatly.

now if those 3 balls stayed down and I get BIH where ever I like then he is going to pay a price for his foul. I like that better.



Having said all that I like call pocket 10 ball the best, I believe thats a far better game than any version of 9ball. it is more of a grind for sure but for the $$$ its great and worth the grind. for rail birds its brutal.


I do miss the ring games from the 80's, but the way i play now i would have been banned from them anyways

Gotta agree with all of that Eric...... Rep ya later, gotta go spread it around....

 

[Pushout]

spotting balls in 9ball never sat right with me, when my opponent fouls on the break and say he made 3 balls, i would get BIH behind the line. With almost no chance at running out, he fouled and I get BIH in a bad position. 3 spotted balls all froze up and God forbid the 1 ball rolled up table it would get spotted at the head of the stack, 4 spotted balls, and the other guy fouled. The wrong guy is getting the penatly.

now if those 3 balls stayed down and I get BIH where ever I like then he is going to pay a price for his foul. I like that better.



Having said all that I like call pocket 10 ball the best, I believe thats a far better game than any version of 9ball. it is more of a grind for sure but for the $$$ its great and worth the grind. for rail birds its brutal.


I do miss the ring games from the 80's, but the way i play now i would have been banned from them anyways

Only balls we spotted up with the one before the money ball and money balls made out of turn, ie: the 9 before the 5 and on the odd chance that both money balls went on the break.

 

[12310bch]

old rules

yeah! Two shot shoot out. Ball in hand behind the line. Spot one or two before nine. Double on a 9 ball run( In Pittsburgh we called a run a " Baby Doll.") We spent hours practicing spot shots from behind the line. At the end of a game we would throw our dimes on the table to pay for the game and yell , " Rack!"

 

[jay helfert]

The old 9-Ball rules before Texas Express came along - Push out on any shot; Two fouls in a row by the same player was BIH; All balls spot; Scratch on the break and your opponent gets BIH behind the line. It was a much more skilled game with many more options. The best player had more of an advantage back then. It was a lot harder to get lucky and beat someone who was better than you.

 

[fasteddief]

Push out

A guy named Toby Sweet was unbeatable in pushout. He always pushout to play safe while everybody else pushout to play a bank shot or a tough cut shot or just a bad percentage shot and his skill level for big money was as good as anybody who ever lived. NO Luck shots like today a player misses and he gets the benefit of being lucky and leaves you kicking to play safe or kicking to get lucky so right there it tells you pushout is more skillful

 

[Pushout]

A guy named Toby Sweet was unbeatable in pushout. He always pushout to play safe while everybody else pushout to play a bank shot or a tough cut shot or just a bad percentage shot and his skill level for big money was as good as anybody who ever lived. NO Luck shots like today a player misses and he gets the benefit of being lucky and leaves you kicking to play safe or kicking to get lucky so right there it tells you pushout is more skillful

I met Toby years ago when he came to play in the New York State 9 Ball Championship in Binghamton, NY. A guy that was there from Ohio with Joe Kerr woofed at him all weekend and wanted a spot. Toby said he would give him the safe 8 but it was no go and they didn't play.
The best player in Binghamton at the time told me he played it the same way as Toby, always pushing out to a safe.
And, I agree with your assessment of the game 100%. People who scoff at playing this way don't understand how the game is played this way. If they did, they might appreciate it more. I've taught people who grew up playing one-foul-ball-in-hand-anywhere and they agreed it's a better game.

 

[measureman]

I go back a long way and i remember every time the Ark rocked, Noah would put the balls back where He thought they were.

 

[gulfportdoc]

The old 9-Ball rules before Texas Express came along - Push out on any shot; Two fouls in a row by the same player was BIH; All balls spot; Scratch on the break and your opponent gets BIH behind the line. It was a much more skilled game with many more options. The best player had more of an advantage back then. It was a lot harder to get lucky and beat someone who was better than you.

A common variation in California during the 60's was that you could only push out if you were hooked in such a way that you could not see the full ball that was your shot. Good rule, because it held down pushouts simply to get advantage.

Doc

 

[dabarbr]

The old 9-Ball rules before Texas Express came along - Push out on any shot; Two fouls in a row by the same player was BIH; All balls spot; Scratch on the break and your opponent gets BIH behind the line. It was a much more skilled game with many more options. The best player had more of an advantage back then. It was a lot harder to get lucky and beat someone who was better than you.

All that you say here is true except that the most popular way to play was any two fouls in a row was ball in hand.

Playing two fouls by the same players was not quite as popular. This meant that if you pushed out and I didn't like the shot and I didn't want you to shoot it then I could re-push to a different location.

I agree with Fasteddief and Pushout that shooting out and forcing your opponent to play safe was better percentage. Also if they pushed out and there was a little distance involved and I knew they were going to play safe I would turn the table back to them and give them one chance to make a mistake. They might hit it too soft, too hard, or the table might roll off. The exception to this was when it was obvious that they could put the ball near a pocket and get a hook with no where for me to push out to.

 

[stuckart]

Having said all that I like call pocket 10 ball the best, I believe thats a far better game than any version of 9ball. it is more of a grind for sure but for the $$$ its great and worth the grind. for rail birds its brutal.

I do miss the ring games from the 80's, but the way i play now i would have been banned from them anyways

I agree totally with call pocket 10 ball! (and for some reason, my 10-ball break can give the 7 out to my 9-ball break)

We still play ring game all over Phoenix. I took about $140 last week playing $3/$5 on the 5 and 9. It ended when I snapped the 9, then got a 2-9 combo and then ran out.

 

[jay helfert]

All that you say here is true except that the most popular way to play was any two fouls in a row was ball in hand.

Playing two fouls by the same players was not quite as popular. This meant that if you pushed out and I didn't like the shot and I didn't want you to shoot it then I could re-push to a different location.

I agree with Fasteddief and Pushout that shooting out and forcing your opponent to play safe was better percentage. Also if they pushed out and there was a little distance involved and I knew they were going to play safe I would turn the table back to them and give them one chance to make a mistake. They might hit it too soft, too hard, or the table might roll off. The exception to this was when it was obvious that they could put the ball near a pocket and get a hook with no where for me to push out to.

I never played "push out" 9-Ball that way. If you pushed out it was just like the present day push. Your opponent had the option to take the shot or pass it back to you. You couldn't shoot a push shot off your opponent's push. That's a new one on me. And it was always two fouls in a row by the same player. For instance, if I fouled and you got BIH behind the line and then you fouled. I would also get BIH behind the line. By the way, the push was considered the first foul. If I pushed out and you let me shoot and I fouled, you got BIH.

 

[dabarbr]

I never played "push out" 9-Ball that way. If you pushed out it was just like the present day push. Your opponent had the option to take the shot or pass it back to you. You couldn't shoot a push shot off your opponent's push. That's a new one on me. And it was always two fouls in a row by the same player. For instance, if I fouled and you got BIH behind the line and then you fouled. I would also get BIH behind the line. By the way, the push was considered the first foul. If I pushed out and you let me shoot and I fouled, you got BIH.

Why would you get BIH after my first foul? That sounds like any two consecutive fouls is BIH behind the line. If that is not so then that means that I could push out after your first foul making that my first foul.

I know there were different ways to play push out. I normally played any two consecutive fouls was ball in hand, who ever shot after the initial push out had to satisfy the legal hit requirements. It didn't have to be by the same player.
There were push out games that allowed one push out after a push out. This was rare but it was out there. Who ever shot after that would be on one foul. If you think the better player was the favorite with regular push out then they were the absolute favorite with the option to re-push.