old lakewood shaft changed to lower deflection?

M

mrinsatiable

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I bought a lakewood dowel that i'd like to make into a lower deflection shaft.

I know that lower end mass will make the shaft have lower deflection qualities but I'm worried. I've heard of shafts that were hallowed, end up warping. Since those shafts were aged for a long time and the boring of the shaft didn't allow the wood to acclimate. Drastic changes to the wood made shaft warp.

I don't know how long this shaft has been dry stored * got it from P.Dayton.

Was thinking of boring the tip of the shaft (4-6 inches) and filling it with a lighter wood i.e example balsa. I'm also considering using a 3/4" capped old westinghouse micarta instead of the full 1" to reduce the mass. Also my playing tip size is 12.30mm so it's fairly small regardless.

What are the options i have to make the shaft into a lower deflection shaft? Since it's still in dowel form i can have the cuemaker do pretty much anything.
 
you could put carbon fiber in the end or there are sevreal cuemakers that make naturally low deflection shafts.

also you might look at LBM or the new yellow for something lower in deflection than the old yellow micarta.i always felt like the old yellow was a little higher in deflection,almost like ivory,but the 3/4" might help it out/i think the only ones i ever tried were 1" pieces.they were selling it by the 1" and i wanted to get my money's worth i guess.:grin-square:
 
mrinsatiable said:
anyone else have suggestions to prevent warpage by boring the front part of the shaft?
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I tried to get a few cuemakers to make me LD shafts with the hole cut out to reduce weight. I was told numerous times that it can't be done because Predator has the rights to that technology.

I am no expert in this field, just sharing with you what I was told
 
BPG24 said:
I tried to get a few cuemakers to make me LD shafts with the hole cut out to reduce weight. I was told numerous times that it can't be done because Predator has the rights to that technology.

I am no expert in this field, just sharing with you what I was told
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I've said this hundreds of times and I'll say it at least 10,000 more, You can't patent a hole as long as they sell a drill bit that size, You can however patent what you do to a hole. Every action creates a course for re-action. What, when, where and how is the real questions to find answers for.
 
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LoL, anyone can drill a hole in their shaft with no legal issues.
You'd have a problem if you tried to market them though.

It doesn't take much imagination to copy someone else's idea.
If you want to be a hero, explore other methods. The R&D doesn't end with Predator though they do seem to have a pretty good grip on the concept of low deflection.

What I believe Mike is saying is that when it comes to physics, 'for every action there is a reaction'. Physics are the constant laws of the universe. However, they can be 'tweaked'. A prime example would be a simple shaft reduction or turn-down. Weight reduction in the front-end equals reduced deflection but the trade-off is a flimsy(er) shaft.

The lakewood shafts are sought after because they possess certain play characteristics. Start messing with the wood and you'll change those attributes. I'm not implying that you shouldn't experiment, because that's how gains are made. I think I'd start by being mindful of the wght. that you ADD to the front-end, ie, ferrule mtrl. John Rocker is involved with the development of some wooden ferrules that in my opinion are showing some great potential. These puppies are definitely worth a look. At 3/4" they are 1/2 the wght. of a common ferrule and the reduction in deflection is dramatic without changing the sought after characteristics of the wood.
 
I sometimes find it humorous, the amount of R&D that goes into decreasing deflection. I wonder if anybody ever considers the tip height, shape & condition. It seems everybody puts the highest importance on tips, but they never get recognized in the deflection aspect.
 
qbilder said:
I sometimes find it humorous, the amount of R&D that goes into decreasing deflection. I wonder if anybody ever considers the tip height, shape & condition. It seems everybody puts the highest importance on tips, but they never get recognized in the deflection aspect.
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I also find it kinda strange that NOBODY ever said a word about deflection when all they had was a house cue with a conical taper and a short ferrule. Either it did not exist or we just mentally adjusted for it.

Arnot has been using short ferrules on his cues for many years; now everybody is getting on board.

Buy American Products and help keep Americans working.
 
qbilder said:
I sometimes find it humorous, the amount of R&D that goes into decreasing deflection. I wonder if anybody ever considers the tip height, shape & condition. It seems everybody puts the highest importance on tips, but they never get recognized in the deflection aspect.
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Tap,. Tap,. Tap.
 
Arnot Wadsworth said:
I also find it kinda strange that NOBODY ever said a word about deflection when all they had was a house cue with a conical taper and a short ferrule. Either it did not exist or we just mentally adjusted for it.

Arnot has been using short ferrules on his cues for many years; now everybody is getting on board.

Buy American Products and help keep Americans working.
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They didn't talk about polution either. maybe that doesn't exhist either.
 
masonh said:
wow,i wasn't aware you started it all?
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Are you seeing something that I don't? Where does Arnot state that he invented the short ferrule? He is stating that he has recognized for some time the benefits of the short, compared to the longer ferrule. Since there were short ferrules before he recognized this others had also so it means that he "got on board" before others and now some of them are doing likewise. Just My unbiased opinion.

Dick
 
poolplayer2093 said:
They didn't talk about polution either. maybe that doesn't exhist either.
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True but in deflection itself, whether you have -0- or 100 percent, you still have to think and practice with whatever is comfortable for you the individual. The confusing part at times is what is comfortable for each individual. To stare at a single object to long, How long before it becomes two objects, even better turn your head a little, find the blind spot and have no object at all. Sorry, I'm out there at times. :eek: :welcome:
 
am i missing something?

thanks to everyone whose chimmed in.

i hit with a lakewood shaft *13mm before bought the blank. it was built at SW and i like the feel *solid but it felt like the deflection was significant. Knowing the shaft was 13mm and the weight was 3.8 oz i knew that it wasn't the specs i was used to playing with.

My normal playing shafts are 12.30mm and weigh around 3.4-3.6 oz. Although i can't isolate whether the thickness of the 13mm is adding to the deflection due to the extra size, or if the lakewood shaft is just more dense than most woods. i'm assuming it's a little bit of both.

in the end i'm trying to look out for other things i can do to the shaft to help bring down the deflection on top of thinning the tip size to 12.3 from the normal 13mm.

so my options are:

-shorten the ferrule..how short can i go with a capped ferrule?

-hallow the first several inches...if so how far down? with what wood do i fill the bore with? does it even need to be filled? what about warpage?
 
mrinsatiable said:
thanks to everyone whose chimmed in.

i hit with a lakewood shaft *13mm before bought the blank. it was built at SW and i like the feel *solid but it felt like the deflection was significant. Knowing the shaft was 13mm and the weight was 3.8 oz i knew that it wasn't the specs i was used to playing with.

My normal playing shafts are 12.30mm and weigh around 3.4-3.6 oz. Although i can't isolate whether the thickness of the 13mm is adding to the deflection due to the extra size, or if the lakewood shaft is just more dense than most woods. i'm assuming it's a little bit of both.

in the end i'm trying to look out for other things i can do to the shaft to help bring down the deflection on top of thinning the tip size to 12.3 from the normal 13mm.

so my options are:

-shorten the ferrule..how short can i go with a capped ferrule?

-hallow the first several inches...if so how far down? with what wood do i fill the bore with? does it even need to be filled? what about warpage?
Click to expand...
Big bore-thin wall ferrule, cedar tenon, carbon disc liner and a short triangle/elk master tip.
 
You can do as Joey said and make your shaft as low deflection as possible...but I'd like to be honest for a minute. I've built quite a few shafts from submerged lake wood. They are extremely dense which also means very heavy. I've had quite a few bumping 5oz. In this cuemakers opinion...you aren't going to get a true low deflection shaft using lake wood at all. At least if its like all the lake wood I've seen & used. They are VERY stiff hitting with quite a deadish feel. There is no way I would ever attemp to use one as my playing shaft. They do make fine shafts on j/b cues. If you want to race up a stellar low deflection shaft...you'd be well advised not to use the lake wood.:wink: Below is a pic of a nice 5oz lake wood shaft...notice its almost chocolate in color...and its on one of my j/b's.:wink:
 

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JoeyInCali said:
Big bore-thin wall ferrule, cedar tenon, carbon disc liner and a short triangle/elk master tip.
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And how much does that change, Rough guestimation will do?
 
Michael Webb said:
And how much does that change, Rough guestimation will do?
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Probably 1/8th of an inch on a 1 tip english, 4 diamonds distance and 3 rail speed.
Should make googans happy.
 
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