Old Man Cheated

[tank69]

Can't believe after all the truth is out people still have the nerve to say she's "shady" or in the wrong.
I don't understand this mindset... "oh well, too bad for the opponent, but the match was played, and the TD was too trusting"
...why is an already played match considered sacred and untouchable?
It's a local handicapped tournament, not the US Open.

First, there are three sides to every story, Her side, His side and the truth. As a TD myself, when you "trust" someone..It's all on you. Whether this guy lied or not, a TD has an obligation to every player. Again, bumping him should have been done, no doubt. But why does one player get a second chance and not the others who played him? As posted before, here is where the TD has to suck it up and move on. Clearly this wasn't the case, let's give this one player another chance and not anyone else. By anyone else, would matches have been played over if anyone else was raised in this tournament? Was anyone else raised? This was a poor choice by the TD, plain and simple.

 

[dardusm]

Running tournaments especially handicapped ones is a thankless job. I think both parties have some fault in this matter and it's too bad that it couldn't have been rectified in private. The player in question was probably under handicapped by at least 1 level maybe 2 from my reading. Megan should have raised him to a 4 and then watched more matches. He did after all lose his first match.

The player could have been a little more honest if he believed he should have been a 4 but many players will try to undersell their game. The only fault of the TD that I can see is replaying the match. But, it sounds like it might be how they do tournaments in their area (so then it's not a fault). The problem with that precedent is what about the other player Gooch defeated? How do you replay that match? Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail and everyone can move on.

 

[jhanso18]

I don't understand this mindset... "oh well, too bad for the opponent, but the match was played, and the TD was too trusting"
...why is an already played match considered sacred and untouchable?
It's a local handicapped tournament, not the US Open.

If it's the first match of the tourny, sure replay it. After that though you can't replay a match. You have to think of the 4-5 other guys that got "Screwed" buy this guy? Just opening the door for every one else to start complaining.

Should either toss him (then you give his next opponent a free role) or bump him and let him play. Don't get me wrong, but if the TD can't knowingly rank a guy, put him high ranked, and drop him down in the next one. simple as that.

 

[peteypooldude]

LMAO!! I read this whole thread,,amazing how things evolve!!

Things didn't evolve... I went to bed and missed them posting

 

[peteypooldude]

First, there are three sides to every story, Her side, His side and the truth. As a TD myself, when you "trust" someone..It's all on you. Whether this guy lied or not, a TD has an obligation to every player. Again, bumping him should have been done, no doubt. But why does one player get a second chance and not the others who played him? As posted before, here is where the TD has to suck it up and move on. Clearly this wasn't the case, let's give this one player another chance and not anyone else. By anyone else, would matches have been played over if anyone else was raised in this tournament? Was anyone else raised? This was a poor choice by the TD, plain and simple.

This is correct . They've known this old man for years
The trumped up 8 was a 1 game league playing with drunks
He can't beat anybody

 

[tank69]

The 73 year old man in question?!? He and his son-in-law represented his ability as total novice, during one of my weekly 9 ball tournaments. The exact date was February 1st, 2013. (I keep excellent records of when all players start playing in my tournaments, and why I ranked them the skill level they are) The man and his son-in-law told me that he didn't really play competitively at all, and didn't give me any league handicap for him. Ask any new player that enters Shore Thing Billiards for my tournaments and they will tell you that the first question I ask is "do you play any leagues?"

So, accepting the word of a player that had played in several events that I have played in, and respect (GSBT) I handicapped this unassuming older gentleman at a 3. He didn't advance to the paid out spots of the weekly tournament he participated in, so when he and his son-in-law showed up for my added $1,000 tournament, I entered him as a skill level 3. He lost his first match-up to a player that was a skill level 11 (this format hosted skill levels 1 thru 12). His second match was against another skill level 3. This opponent played in the mini-tournament the night before, and was a player that I knew their ACCURATE handicap from another in-house tournament format that I was familiar with and could equate to mine. He won this match, and it was not a close one. His next round match-up forfeited. So after advancing, (not my boyfriend) Gatlin loses to him. Racing to 7 with 3 games on the wire and the 7 & 8 called, the player in question wins by a big margin (7-3 not 7-5 as reported above). My first reaction was shock. I play in my format as a level 4, and I do not think I could beat Gatlin with that game, so I questioned the skill level of the older gentleman. The owner of STB is a BCA league operator and knew that the man played BCA. After pulling up the last sessions stats, I found out that his BCA handicap out of 10 was an 8. He was ranked in the top 10 of his league.

I informed the player in question that he was going to replay his previous match at a higher skill level the following day, when he arrived. This is my policy, and I am not the only tournament director that plays the match over.

So you based raising him from a 3 to 4 on a BCA HC of 8? That makes no sense and nor does raising him based on one match. How can you or anyone base a handicap off of one game? I beat Scott Frost in a weekly in Phoenix, I was getting the 6 out...Guess what, next time I played him, he tortured me! So based on your mentality, by winning that first handicapped set, I'm as good of a player as Scott? I don't think so. BCA/TAP/APA ratings should be used with extreme caution when handicapping room tourneys.

So the guy had one good match, you said yourself he didn't advance far in the weekly, so obviously he was well within his rating there. However, you raise him after one match during this tourney and replay his last match. This just isn't right, something is very wrong with this scenario...from both sides.

 

[peteypooldude]

Gatlin, a 9 was put out by your Father in law, a 3 supposed to be a 4 as you clearly state and no one stated that when he signed up! He beat a 9 by a score of 7-3 not hill-hill.

Guy was a 5 and Mickey a 6
So what's that make the old man.... A 4 at best

 

[tank69]

This is correct . They've known this old man for years
The trumped up 8 was a 1 game league playing with drunks
He can't beat anybody

I've played BCA and it's really easy to play great that first or second night and all of the sudden you are ranked high....Once you put in some time, the handicaps even out and reality sets in. I've seen some "ok" players have stellar nights their first few league outings and they are at the top of the rankings...At the end of the league, those people are where they should be, middle of the pack or near the bottom.

 

[peteypooldude]

I've played BCA and it's really easy to play great that first or second night and all of the sudden you are ranked high....Once you put in some time, the handicaps even out and reality sets in. I've seen some "ok" players have stellar nights their first few league outings and they are at the top of the rankings...At the end of the league, those people are where they should be, middle of the pack or near the bottom.

Exactly what happened. He is a 4 at best in that tournament.
They rank you 1 below your league handicap
They moved him to a 5 and he won 1 game against a sober Gatlim
Love how they waited till 4 in the morning to post on this thread

 

[watchez]

So you based raising him from a 3 to 4 on a BCA HC of 8? That makes no sense and nor does raising him based on one match. How can you or anyone base a handicap off of one game? I beat Scott Frost in a weekly in Phoenix, I was getting the 6 out...Guess what, next time I played him, he tortured me! So based on your mentality, by winning that first handicapped set, I'm as good of a player as Scott? I don't think so. BCA/TAP/APA ratings should be used with extreme caution when handicapping room tourneys.

So the guy had one good match, you said yourself he didn't advance far in the weekly, so obviously he was well within his rating there. However, you raise him after one match during this tourney and replay his last match. This just isn't right, something is very wrong with this scenario...from both sides.

I wish I would have posted this.

 

[thewhiffer]

Megan that is BS. Brent has known the old man for years and a half blind 4
He only played in the BCA part of a session and that handicap of an 8 is a joke. Everyone at the room including Gatlin has known him for years
Can he play????? If the stars line up right
Why replay Gatlin?

Petey, there is a time to bow out with dignity. The more information that comes out, from you, seems to support the premise that he was trying to slide in with a lower handicap than he should have. The handicap in BCA, 8, may be a joke and an injustice but it is what he is at (your words). When asked if he played in other leagues he should have answered "yes" when asked what his handicap in that league was, he should have answered "8" and went on to openly plead his case that he did not believe that he was really an 8 and then accepted the TD decision as to whatever level he would start at. It sounds like this TD is meticulous enough that he would reach a fair level in future tournaments. I am surprised, however, that if Gatlin has known him for years that nothing was said by him, or others, about the handicap prior to the match. I also do not feel that the best solution was for him to replay the game. After all, his handicap was not questioned when he lost on the A side and went to the losers bracket. A reasonable course of action would have been to raise his handicap (think of it as a field level promotion) for the rest of the tournament. It happens all the time.

I entered my first 9 ball tournament recently, a tournament where I am not really known. I indicated to the TD that I had been an APA 6 in 8 ball and 5 in 9 ball, although currently inactive. I went on to explain that at one time, when I was younger (I am nearing your father in laws age) I had been a 7 in 8 ball. I went on to say that I believed the 5 was not correct as I was fairly new to 9 ball and had not played it a lot prior to becoming inactive. One of the reasons I had chosen to play in this tournament was to improve. I suggested that a fair starting handicap for me would be around 6 or 7 and they could adjust it based on results either during or in future tournaments. Started as a 6, went out two straight, felt competitive enough that I'm ok with being a 6 until I get up to speed.

 

[sk8ordie]

Well, after saying my side of the facts and Megans also, it doesnt matter anymore. The damage is done! That'll be the last tournament and maybe the doors will close to the only poolhall left in Myrtle Beach. You did your job Petey. Sure, both parties were at fault, Megan for replaying the match and believing the old man was a 3 and not starting him as an unknown 5 and Petey for coming on here and blasting someone with lies and you weren't even there. Before the Calcutta, Megan had a players meeting stating up front that anyone cuaght manipulating there true handicap, would be forfeited or the match played over. He had the chance then to pull out and get a refund. As I cleary stated, there was wrong doing on both parts but Petey you come on here to hurt someone and a business but, Megan never did anything to hurt him. This could have been handled privatly. The only sore players in that poolhall was your buddies, everyone else (67 players) had a great time and complemented her on a great tournament.
You guys always come in there once a month and want everything for free, free food, drink and I hook you up best I can. You try and get the tournament money and split til the next one and never come in to support the hall. That's why its so hard to pay the bills and poolhalls are fading hard.
Well, if there is even anotjer tournament held after this I'm sure Megan has learned quite a bit from this and your comments. Sorry you guys got dragged into this whole thing. Ron

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2

 

[leto1776]

Well, after saying my side of the facts and Megans also, it doesnt matter anymore. The damage is done! That'll be the last tournament and maybe the doors will close to the only poolhall left in Myrtle Beach. You did your job Petey. Sure, both parties were at fault, Megan for replaying the match and believing the old man was a 3 and not starting him as an unknown 5 and Petey for coming on here and blasting someone with lies and you weren't even there. Before the Calcutta, Megan had a players meeting stating up front that anyone cuaght manipulating there true handicap, would be forfeited or the match played over. He had the chance then to pull out and get a refund. As I cleary stated, there was wrong doing on both parts but Petey you come on here to hurt someone and a business but, Megan never did anything to hurt him. This could have been handled privatly. The only sore players in that poolhall was your buddies, everyone else (67 players) had a great time and complemented her on a great tournament.
You guys always come in there once a month and want everything for free, free food, drink and I hook you up best I can. You try and get the tournament money and split til the next one and never come in to support the hall. That's why its so hard to pay the bills and poolhalls are fading hard.
Well, if there is even anotjer tournament held after this I'm sure Megan has learned quite a bit from this and your comments. Sorry you guys got dragged into this whole thing. Ron

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2

So is your place's rep hurt that badly already?

 

[peteypooldude]

Petey, there is a time to bow out with dignity. The more information that comes out, from you, seems to support the premise that he was trying to slide in with a lower handicap than he should have. The handicap in BCA, 8, may be a joke and an injustice but it is what he is at (your words). When asked if he played in other leagues he should have answered "yes" when asked what his handicap in that league was, he should have answered "8" and went on to openly plead his case that he did not believe that he was really an 8 and then accepted the TD decision as to whatever level he would start at. It sounds like this TD is meticulous enough that he would reach a fair level in future tournaments. I am surprised, however, that if Gatlin has known him for years that nothing was said by him, or others, about the handicap prior to the match. I also do not feel that the best solution was for him to replay the game. After all, his handicap was not questioned when he lost on the A side and went to the losers bracket. A reasonable course of action would have been to raise his handicap (think of it as a field level promotion) for the rest of the tournament. It happens all the time.

I entered my first 9 ball tournament recently, a tournament where I am not really known. I indicated to the TD that I had been an APA 6 in 8 ball and 5 in 9 ball, although currently inactive. I went on to explain that at one time, when I was younger (I am nearing your father in laws age) I had been a 7 in 8 ball. I went on to say that I believed the 5 was not correct as I was fairly new to 9 ball and had not played it a lot prior to becoming inactive. One of the reasons I had chosen to play in this tournament was to improve. I suggested that a fair starting handicap for me would be around 6 or 7 and they could adjust it based on results either during or in future tournaments. Started as a 6, went out two straight, felt competitive enough that I'm ok with being a 6 until I get up to speed.

He hasn't played BCA in years. Bow out with dignity? He only has 1 lens in his glasses. He is a 4 at best.

 

[Richardson]

It also seems funny to me this super-under handicapped old man who was robbing everyone was in the losers bracket.

Wait, I'll bet he dumped the winners side to try and stay under the radar. *smack head*

 

[TCo]

Visit Myrt Beach SC

You're funny new guy, read! Your apology is accepted.

I'll put your place on the must see list for a return trip to MB. I wonder if new people to your establishment can expect this same level of welcome.

//alsoanewguy//

 

[Maniac]

Well, I've decided to edit my post and delete all that I wrote (and thankful no one quoted it). I have also decided that in the future, I will not comment on any situation until hearing from both parties involved.

On second thought, I think I'll just try not to ever comment again on anything without absolutely KNOWING the truth.

I will never really know the absolute truth to this saga, and neither will many of the people posting on this thread. We can only take the parts we WANT to believe and make a story to comment on. This is not a good way to pass judgement on somebody.

Maniac (sorry to anyone I may have offended)

 

[TheNewSharkster]

This topic was a interesting way to kick off my Monday.

It would appear to me the problems here started when peteypooldude and old man lied to the TD. Did he really have a BCA rating? If he did then shame on both of you!

Do I agree with Megan replaying a match? Who cares. She is a TD and made that choice based on the fact old man had blantantly lied about his speed. He should be happy he wasn't kicked out of the tourny. I am not going to question this. She provided a well constructed reason for why she did this. Good enough for me.

 

[peteypooldude]

Well, after saying my side of the facts and Megans also, it doesnt matter anymore. The damage is done! That'll be the last tournament and maybe the doors will close to the only poolhall left in Myrtle Beach. You did your job Petey. Sure, both parties were at fault, Megan for replaying the match and believing the old man was a 3 and not starting him as an unknown 5 and Petey for coming on here and blasting someone with lies and you weren't even there. Before the Calcutta, Megan had a players meeting stating up front that anyone cuaght manipulating there true handicap, would be forfeited or the match played over. He had the chance then to pull out and get a refund. As I cleary stated, there was wrong doing on both parts but Petey you come on here to hurt someone and a business but, Megan never did anything to hurt him. This could have been handled privatly. The only sore players in that poolhall was your buddies, everyone else (67 players) had a great time and complemented her on a great tournament.
You guys always come in there once a month and want everything for free, free food, drink and I hook you up best I can. You try and get the tournament money and split til the next one and never come in to support the hall. That's why its so hard to pay the bills and poolhalls are fading hard.
Well, if there is even anotjer tournament held after this I'm sure Megan has learned quite a bit from this and your comments. Sorry you guys got dragged into this whole thing. Ron

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2

Lies? Free food? The truth is what Megan done was BS
I never said anything about the owner, just what Megan did
The right thing to do would have been for Brent to say I wasn't running the tournament and I will straighten this sh1t out
Simple enough? BTW I have never got a dam thing free in that place
Maybe a refill of coke WOW
What you posted was the biggest misconception yet

 

[delmari001]

After hearing both sides of the story, I have to agree with what Megan did asking the gentleman to replay. This would have beeen settled more professionally if she stopped their match while she looked up his information but that can't be helped now. Asking him to replay a match was wrong, however the gentleman lied about being a ranked player. He did get caught. I played in a local handicap tourney, LD asked me my rank. Told him I was a 5 in APA 3 years ago. He placed me as a 4. Okay. I play, I win. Mostly because I play alot of defense and these guys take low percentage shots. I get moved up to a 7. I don't b*&h about it, I accept the challenge. I lose. Okay, accept it, move on to next match. I lose again. I find out the guy I lost my last match to is rated an 8, but my race was 7-3, he needed 3. Now that's wrong. If the gentleman didn't misrepresent his skill level, then I'd have to agree with him, but he deliberately lied to take advantage.