Old School Pool Players

freddy the beard

Freddy Bentivegna
Silver Member
You gotta love it

jay helfert said:
Like you Billy, I may not have made the best choices in my life as a youngster. I had every opportunity to be a docter or a lawyer. I just fell in love with Pool and that was it. Owning a poolroom doesn't compare with being a professional man, but like Billy I made a decent living and have no complaints.

What I wouldn't trade for anything is all the great times I had in poolrooms across America. I personally knew all the above players Billy mentions and tons more. The funniest lines I ever heard in my life were in poolrooms and the biggest laughs came in there too. Funnier than any comedian or anybody you ever saw on TV.

For some unique characters, try Omaha Fats, Minnesota, Cosmo, The Goose, Ronnie, Keith, both Red's, Puckett, Jack Perkins, Puggy, Slim, Detroit Whitey, Kelly, Wimpy, Popcorn, Buddy, Jimmy Reid, Bob Osborne, Massey, Hubbart, Danny, Billy Johnson, Lisciotti, Hoppy, Rempe, Little Nicky, Nicky Vach, Grady, Parica, Blackie, Pancho, Shorty and Cuban Joe. Now these were characters with funny outlooks on life and an interesting way of expressing themself. Like Freddie, I loved them all, rogues that they were.

The poolroom could be a wondeful place and it could be a treacherous place. You got a good education if you hung around long enough. I'm glad I made the choices I made. It's been a trip!

The most important point to be made, is you gotta love it. If you dont really love it, then the unacknowledgement, hardships, and economic drizzles certainly dont warrant committing to that path. That's why I have such a hard time finding someone I want to teach. Prospective students like pool, want to improve, want to do good in tournaments, etc. But would they take a plane to upstate NY to look for a master player, Sailor Barge, who tried to remain anonymous and hidden, in a hundred mile sq area, just to be able to ask him a few pool questions, like I once did?
If you say no to that question, then go to school or find a square job. The pool life aint for you.

the Beard
 

The Woim

Banned
Freddy the Beard summed it up pretty good.

From The Woim's perspective, a person having the requisite amount of self-respect should put an end to threads like this. Each of us have chosen the life we want. If we didn't want it, we wouldn't have endured the struggles through our individual hardships.

The pool player struggles to achieve greatness in his field in varying degrees of commitment. At the highest level of commitment, the player who goes pro, if he fails (which is likely) some will be disparage him as a bum. It's not right to disparage him because he pursued his goal. Perhaps people who disparage others should carefully examine themselves and ask why they feel the need to disparage others. That's the true question.

Yours Very Truly,
The Woim
 

punter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
freddy the beard said:
The most important point to be made, is you gotta love it. If you dont really love it, then the unacknowledgement, hardships, and economic drizzles certainly dont warrant committing to that path. That's why I have such a hard time finding someone I want to teach. Prospective students like pool, want to improve, want to do good in tournaments, etc. But would they take a plane to upstate NY to look for a master player, Sailor Barge, who tried to remain anonymous and hidden, in a hundred mile sq area, just to be able to ask him a few pool questions, like I once did?
If you say no to that question, then go to school or find a square job. The pool life aint for you.

the Beard

Yeah, but Freddy after reading all those tips from the road on your blog, why did you blow money on a plane ticket? Go Greyhound!!
 
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freddy the beard

Freddy Bentivegna
Silver Member
The 'Hound

punter said:
Yeah, but Freddy after reading all those tips from the road on your blog, why did you blow money on a plane ticket? Go Greyhound!!

While my hustling career wasn't a phenomenal financial success, I, at least, did well enough that I was only relegated to take the 'Hound a few times. Mostly, I drove, got a ride, or flew.

the Beard
 

Bigtruck

Capt Diff Lock
Gold Member
Silver Member
Do What you love...

wincardona said:
I've read on numerous threads about how certain people judge the choice of lives pool players have chosen. Often being referred to as fools and stupid,for choosing their profession.I would like to offer my prospective on this topic,since I have traveled this exclusive road that the upper echolan players have. In retrospect as I look back through my life from the time I first picked up a cue untill now as I speak to all of you and I can honestly say this without remorse,if I could go back in time and choose another path ,chances are I might have done it,but in no way do I regret the path of life I chose as a pool player. Financially I am set,not super rich ,but content with my financial situation. No I didn't make my money playing pool but it was partially responsible for opening doors for me to exploit.And as I sit here reminiscing ,my most vivid memories wasn't about how I cleverly, and relentlessly I built my foundation for the future,no it was about all the great experiences I had on the road and sharing those experiences with people you only read about. Strawberry said it perfectly when he so eloquently stated " one pocket is an epodemic and there ain't no cure" And that also holds true to all the great players of the past ,Buddy Hall,Jersey Red, Eddie Taylor,Keith McReady,Bugs, Grady, Cornbread,FreddyThe Beard,Wade Crane,David Matlock,Ronnie Allen,Danny Diliberto,Bill I ncardona,Jack Cooney,Fats,Pucket,and I can go on and on. And all these great champions played the game we all love, pool, and it was an epodemic to all of them without a cure. But now we are a lot older and some have $$$ problems and you know what ,we don't like it,but it's kinda OK,because we played a game that we loved for just about all our lives,and that ain't so bad.

Iappologize to any person that has not implied this,but if the shoe fits wear it.

This is great stuff! If you follow your dreams and do what you love doing, you ARE successfull, and money has nothing to do with it. Nothing would be worse than looking back on your life and realize you spent your entire allocation of time doing something you hated.

Hats off to you Billy!

Ray
 

crawfish

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's all relative. Some people measure success on material possessions. Some measure on wealth. Some measure on career. I measure on value of life. Do I wake up in a good mood. Do I provide for my children? Do I enjoy every day? Am I happy within myself. I judge people on their expectations and quality of life. Basically, for some people, you don't need wealth, in a traditional sense, to be happy.
 

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
I think it depends on the person if they need a lot of money to be happy or not. I?ve been half-ass rich and half-ass poor, but mostly somewhere in between the two. I?m old enough to that having money is better than not having. They say you can?t buy health...BS. If you don?t have money you can?t get health insurance that?s worth a damn. They say you can?t buy love...BS. I know sex isn?t love...close enough for me. And if you?re married don?t tell me you don?t ever pay for sex.

On the other hand the youngest of my three daughters (30 years old) has a degree in criminology and political science. Two weeks before she was to start law school at Stetson she just said the hell with it and started a bonded courier business. It could have been worse though... her first choice was to become a bounty hunter. Anyway she?s as happy as can be. She?s played house with the same guy for twelve years and refuses to get married. As long as she has food and rent money, with a few bucks leftover to party...she?s happy. Johnnyt
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My choice in life was made for me, I wanted to be a pool player, but I didnt get a drop of natural talent, what took me 5 years to achieve took some of my friends 2 years to achieve. I stuck with pool for over 10 years and couldnt put together enough winable action to live on. I simpally didnt play good enough, i would in spots. There is nothing like winning, but I looked at where I would have ended up if I stayed in pool full time and I didnt like what I saw myself being in another 20 years. So I kept my eyes open for something I had talent for, I found it. In that world I was Efren, so leaving the pool hall for a different hustle I was the best at it made leaving pool easy, and I liked the $$$ and the rush. I never looked back, that lasted 3 years(the Feds shut it down-but 14 years later they still talk about me, i am a ledgend in a small world,much smaller than pool) it gave me the seed $$$ to do other things, i still played some pool the whole time but no action. Now I'm well healed and wanting to come back and play again but until my back is sorted out I play when I can. If I had any kind of talent for pool I wouldnt be where I'm at today thats for sure but I dont know if I'm any happier now or not.

to this I would like to add what i learned in the pool room first watching Billy, Tooth, Davenport, Snake in Oakland, Buster in La, and many more, i learned how to make a game for myself, but more importantly I took those skills the art of negating a game into the world I mentioned above-telemarkering and became the best there ever was, I knew it deep inside me I was the best, there was only one other guy who could pitch close to my speed but he had a drug problem I didnt, Jay Helfert will verify this too. I went from the pool hall to making 5 dimes a week working 4 hours a day on the phone, I never had that feeling in pool of complete and total confidence that there was no-one better than me, I have played like a chamion in spots for 15 minutes here and there, but on the phone calling someone I never spoke to and getting a check in the door from Fed-x the next day for $10,000 for a 45 minute call is a rush-same as making a score in pool, I told Dave Knottingham about it and he said" dont look back at pool" he was a great friend and pool hustler and played good not great. But the Feds broke it up 3 years later and alot of people went up on time in the joint, I didnt because I never lied, I just learned to move good and sell people on the idea they had the best of it. I spoke to Archer about this once and he summed it up perfectly "You knew it was for you" like pool was for him when he started, I knew my first week I was going to be the best-Archer did too. the rest is history.

God bless those of you born with the natural talent to play champion level pool, you were lucky enough to find what worked for you, I have the same love for the game I just cant make it work like the champions can. I've never had a square job in my life either, not because my parents had $$$ they didnt, I just cant handle a normal job or school-i'm a free spirit, telemarketing was come to the boiler room when you wanted too. I have had a life of freedom too, i wish everyone in the world could. I respect and thank those who dont. Were very lucky to have that freedom but like Billy said in this thread it can come at a price later in life. There isnt a retired pool players pension fund-shame. However everyone did come up big for bugs.
 
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!Smorgass Bored

Hump ? What HUMP ?
Gold Member
If I Don't Die First

Well, I've wasted my life, but I haven't wasted my WHOLE life..... yet.
Doug
( I still have time to be somebody... imo )



.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Fatboy said:
My choice in life was made for me, I wanted to be a pool player, but I didnt get a drop of natural talent, what took me 5 years to achieve took some of my friends 2 years to achieve. I stuck with pool for over 10 years and couldnt put together enough winable action to live on. I simpally didnt play good enough, i would in spots. There is nothing like winning, but I looked at where I would have ended up if I stayed in pool full time and I didnt like what I saw myself being in another 20 years. So I kept my eyes open for something I had talent for, I found it. In that world I was Efren, so leaving the pool hall for a different hustle I was the best at it made leaving pool easy, and I liked the $$$ and the rush. I never looked back, that lasted 3 years(the Feds shut it down-but 14 years later they still talk about me, i am a ledgend in a small world,much smaller than pool) it gave me the seed $$$ to do other things, i still played some pool the whole time but no action. Now I'm well healed and wanting to come back and play again but until my back is sorted out I play when I can. If I had any kind of talent for pool I wouldnt be where I'm at today thats for sure but I dont know if I'm any happier now or not.

to this I would like to add what i learned in the pool room first watching Billy, Tooth, Davenport, Snake in Oakland, Buster in La, and many more, i learned how to make a game for myself, but more importantly I took those skills the art of negating a game into the world I mentioned above-telemarkering and became the best there ever was, I knew it deep inside me I was the best, there was only one other guy who could pitch close to my speed but he had a drug problem I didnt, Jay Helfert will verify this too. I went from the pool hall to making 5 dimes a week working 4 hours a day on the phone, I never had that feeling in pool of complete and total confidence that there was no-one better than me, I have played like a chamion in spots for 15 minutes here and there, but on the phone calling someone I never spoke to and getting a check in the door from Fed-x the next day for $10,000 for a 45 minute call is a rush-same as making a score in pool, I told Dave Knottingham about it and he said" dont look back at pool" he was a great friend and pool hustler and played good not great. But the Feds broke it up 3 years later and alot of people went up on time in the joint, I didnt because I never lied, I just learned to move good and sell people on the idea they had the best of it. I spoke to Archer about this once and he summed it up perfectly "You knew it was for you" like pool was for him when he started, I knew my first week I was going to be the best-Archer did too. the rest is history.

God bless those of you born with the natural talent to play champion level pool, you were lucky enough to find what worked for you, I have the same love for the game I just cant make it work like the champions can. I've never had a square job in my life either, not because my parents had $$$ they didnt, I just cant handle a normal job or school-i'm a free spirit, telemarketing was come to the boiler room when you wanted too. I have had a life of freedom too, i wish everyone in the world could. I respect and thank those who dont. Were very lucky to have that freedom but like Billy said in this thread it can come at a price later in life. There isnt a retired pool players pension fund-shame. However everyone did come up big for bugs.

I remember Fatboy from his youth, when he was running around with Rude Dog aka John Morton. They were road buddies. They dressed alike and looked like brothers. Unfortunately for Fatboy, they didn't play alike. :) Fatboy was the muscle back then, John ALWAYS got paid!

See, I know you better than you think. I was paying attention. That's my job. Fatboy disappeared for about 12 years. I never saw him again around the tournaments or poolrooms on the West Coast until this year. I asked him where he had been. His answer, "Getting rich!" I liked this answer and he proved it. He IS rich! Too bad he has such back problems. Otherwise I could get his fat ass on the pool table more often. I LOVE it when someone tells me how good they USED to play. Ha ha ha.

I've said the same thing, but nobody cares. The only thing that matters in pool is, can you make a ball today. And I like that. You can talk all the stuff you want, but eventually you are going to have to get on the table and do it. You can't fake it on a pool table. Unless you're Jack Cooney. :)

I'm really glad that Fatboy came back to Pool, the game he always loved. If one man can add a lot to the game, he is the guy. He has the enthusiasm and the wherewithal to make a difference. Now about that Bank game, when did you say you would be back in L.A.?
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I miss Rudedog man he could play. I never beat him. He was good at everything he did.

I lost alot of weight after that then started the gym and got in shape because I had back problems then, but they caught up with me. I am suppost to drive to LA today, but I cant yet i'm hurting too much. I havent been out of my house in 4 days-a small house. My back problems are ruining my life. Jay, I'll call you when I get on the road.

Jay is right your only as good as you played yesterday, since I didnt play, i really suck. Who's gonna spot me what?


Jay aint gonna like it playing banks next time. He has no shot. ;)
 
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Steve - Detroit

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
was it the action?

wincardona said:
I've read on numerous threads about how certain people judge the choice of lives pool players have chosen. Often being referred to as fools and stupid,for choosing their profession.I would like to offer my prospective on this topic,since I have traveled this exclusive road that the upper echolan players have. In retrospect as I look back through my life from the time I first picked up a cue untill now as I speak to all of you and I can honestly say this without remorse,if I could go back in time and choose another path ,chances are I might have done it,but in no way do I regret the path of life I chose as a pool player. Financially I am set,not super rich ,but content with my financial situation. No I didn't make my money playing pool but it was partially responsible for opening doors for me to exploit.And as I sit here reminiscing ,my most vivid memories wasn't about how I cleverly, and relentlessly I built my foundation for the future,no it was about all the great experiences I had on the road and sharing those experiences with people you only read about. Strawberry said it perfectly when he so eloquently stated " one pocket is an epodemic and there ain't no cure" And that also holds true to all the great players of the past ,Buddy Hall,Jersey Red, Eddie Taylor,Keith McReady,Bugs, Grady, Cornbread,FreddyThe Beard,Wade Crane,David Matlock,Ronnie Allen,Danny Diliberto,Bill I ncardona,Jack Cooney,Fats,Pucket,and I can go on and on. And all these great champions played the game we all love, pool, and it was an epodemic to all of them without a cure. But now we are a lot older and some have $$$ problems and you know what ,we don't like it,but it's kinda OK,because we played a game that we loved for just about all our lives,and that ain't so bad.

Iappologize to any person that has not implied this,but if the shoe
fits wear it.

Bill, I have a question on this and would love to hear your response (or Freddie or Grady or anyone else that wants to respond).

Was it the action that brought you to the game? The reason I ask is that there are often posts about how pool needs to clean up its image if its ever to be taken as a serious sport. Isn't it the action that attracts the talent to the game?

We know you're a gambler as were most, if not all, of the names you mentioned. If you chose a different profession, you'd still be a gambler, maybe horses or cards or whatever. If you weren't a gambler, would you still have worked on your game to elevate it to the level that you did? Or was it the action that first attracted you.
 

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For the love of the game.
My friend Buttermilk told me that I am lucky to be unlucky not to be good at pool and to go find a job.

It is a stroke of luck that one has the natural talent to be the best at pool. When this talent is let go, the rest is history. You will win money, you will get backers, you will travel, you will be discovered and when discovered, you will have to play in tournaments to make money.

Ahhhh the good life doing what you love and making money at it. For me it wasn't pool like many others that have bills to pay.
 
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Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm not compairing myself to the champions, pool was my interest since I could see over the rail as a little kid-the action was secondary but I like it too.


I played so bad tonight honest to God I couldnt run 4 balls in a row, it was the first time in 6 days that I played and the muscle relaxors and the pain made me a D player, even Jay could have beat me tonight . ;) Jays cat could have given me the 8. :( ;)
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
LAMas said:
For the love of the game.
My friend Buttermilk told me that I am lucky to be unlucky not to be good at pool and to go find a job.

With out a doubt, If I had the talent to play great I never would have made the same coin I have in business, but am I happier, I dont know. I never had a job so I'm free, but I never had the feeling of total control many times in my life playing pool, I did have a taste of it from time to time.
 

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Fatboy said:
With out a doubt, If I had the talent to play great I never would have made the same coin I have in business, but am I happier, I dont know. I never had a job so I'm free, but I never had the feeling of total control many times in my life playing pool, I did have a taste of it from time to time.

"Total control"...I like the feeling. In my work, I also feel that I have it - not in pool though. It doesn't have to be pool to get the rush of "total control" - it can be at a job where you look at the competition and you know that they are lazy, incompetent, frustrated, want to be surfing or drinking etc.. It is that the competition doesn't measure up that makes you/me a cut above.

I think that is what you feel making the coin in your expertise. Kudos to you Fats.:)
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
LAMas said:
"Total control"...I like the feeling. In my work, I also feel that I have it - not in pool though. It doesn't have to be pool to get the rush of "total control" - it can be at a job where you look at the competition and you know that they are lazy, incompetent, frustrated, want to be surfing or drinking etc.. It is that the competition doesn't measure up that makes you/me a cut above.

I think that is what you feel making the coin in your expertise. Kudos to you Fats.:)

When I was a telemarketer I could pick up the phone and in 2-3 minutes know if I had the hook set in the fish, then it was all on me in the next 45 to figure out how much $$$ I could get. The biggest "deal" I ever did was $50,000 the second was 27K and some change and alot of 25K's and lower, My cut was 35%. I knew I had the ability to be the best in the biz the first day, it took me 7 weeks to become a "reloader" the highest level in the racket, most guys needed about 2 years. Your recent paychecks were ticket to getting the best leads so it was a hard gig to break into for most people. There were a few pool players in the phone rooms, Mike Nigerian(SP?) was who turned me onto telemarketing, he played ok too.

I miss being on the phone laying down a pitch that is nothing but BS but is percieved by the mark as the best day in their life. its a great hustle. I'm not proud of the harm I did, but I am proud of how good I was. It changed me for life thats for sure, Ever watch Pulp Fiction? that was about like telemarketing, boilerrooms and the cast of charcters I worked with, guns and all(never seen a shot fired but the guns were there). It made the pool room look like a bunch of marks or laydowns. The phone is pure, its just who has the best words gets the $$$$. There is more hustle in a boiler room than anywhere in the world and I was the best in that world.

The Feds took it all away from us, and some of us went to jail-I didnt because I never lied to anyone, I just layed it down so good they just had to send me the $$$.
 
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