Old Style Play was more exiting

[ironman]

It's the fast cloth and small pockets the pros play on nowadays.

Before, the players could take a flyer if they knew it was impossible for their opponent to stroke the ball well enough to get on the next shot if they missed a ball. Nowadays, it is too hard to put a three pack down the way Diamonds break, so all errors are punished 3 times harder than in years past.

Russ

I will agree with to a point. The stoke has been taken out of the game and it is quite obvious. Ther snooker pockets and the ice rinks for cloth had a lot to do with this, but what had more to do with it is the rules change. This has been talked about and talked about, but the one foul vs. 2 shot push changed the game forever and ever. It has made for a very boring game too.

Todays' players would be totally lost with the pushout rule. Shen was the lat time you saw someone actuall go for a long bank. Back in the day, you had better know how to shoot it ans whan to not to shoot it.

Bac in the day of the push out, a guy would get lucky and hook the oppposing player, he would study, and pushout. The other player would study and study knowing he couldn't makeit, but terrified because he knew the other could. You could read what they were thinking.It forced one to play at a higher level!

Tighter pockets??? Yes, they would have adjusted to that too!!

Sadly though, things change ans often never go back. Of course though, I'm nearly 60 now and just miss the real game!!

 

[ironman]

It always amazes me when I encounter this line of reasoning. What makes today's game far more fascinating than the old version is the creativity entialed by defense, kicking and two-way shots, skills that were far less important in the supposedly good old days.

The old-timers celebrate one pocket, a game whose majesty is closely tied to the way the great movers manage to play offense and defense simultaneously and the way they gradually develop an advantage. In one pocket, I'm told, such imaginative play is exciting, but somehow the same kind of imaginaton, when used in nine ball, is boring.

I'm not buying it. Texas Express made nine ball much more interesting to watch, placing much greater emphasis on speed control, billiard knowledge, and the ability to devise shots that have both an offensive and defensive element to them.

The old syle nine ball, was, of course, more of a shotmakers game, but if was far less interesting to watch. May it rest in peace.

WOW., I think for the first time in 6 years here, I will have to disagree with you on this one. But, I will say, I well understand your point and respect it.

As I mentioned earlier I am going on 60 now and have gotten a bit change resitant, but I loved watching the oldGuys like Louie, Buddy, Wade and Billy play 9 ball. They would push out and everyone would lean forward in their seats to see what options were taken, You cul pass,, go for it, or even play safe on it and leaving it is a spot where there was no good push. It did though favor the better player as time went by and the longer the set, the more it favord the better player. That is how they gave up those big spots in that day as well.
Soemthng else that was taken from the game was the spot shot and playing position off it. I know, I was beaten by many of them.LOL!

 

[sausage]

While looking over books by Robert Byrne’s (Pool and Billiards) and Ray Martin’s (99 Critical Shots in Pool) I noticed that a lot of the shots in the books we very rarely see taken by the pros anymore..... I don’t know who would win between the old players and the new if both in their prime, but I do know the old players were a lot more exiting IMO. Johnnyt

being a straight pool player, what's exciting to me is watching a player run a difficult rack of 9ball with precise cueball control and good safety play. this has become the standard because THAT'S what wins tournaments. the only downside to such a match is the lack of TV coverage. unless you make the game more EXCITING for Bubba Sixpack, they won't watch.

 

[12310bch]

there's a place for you in heaven.

I still play that way for the most part. I play in small local tournaments,so I really don't go at it with the hope of winning the cash. I am challenged by the table,the player to me is irrelevant. If I have a turn at the table,I am trying to play each shot to go in. Regardless of the outcome,I want to be aggresive,and play to perfection. Yes,I have lost thousands of games that way. My life isn't any worse for it. I still Love to play,each and every game. I have also made some spectacular shots out of impossible positions,for that I'm grateful. Jump Cue? Never owned one. Jump with full cue only,but only rarely. If you have to jump,you aren't getting very good shape,and you are afraid of kicking!! Take Risks...Take the Consequences.

Two phrases I love to hear:
1) Watch this!
2) Didja see that?

I think good safes are a part of the game but sometimes the challenge of
beating a safety with an impossible shot overwhelms me. I'm a fool for pool. Win or lose.

 

[sjm]

WOW., I think for the first time in 6 years here, I will have to disagree with you on this one. But, I will say, I well understand your point and respect it.

As I mentioned earlier I am going on 60 now and have gotten a bit change resitant, but I loved watching the oldGuys like Louie, Buddy, Wade and Billy play 9 ball. They would push out and everyone would lean forward in their seats to see what options were taken, You cul pass,, go for it, or even play safe on it and leaving it is a spot where there was no good push. It did though favor the better player as time went by and the longer the set, the more it favord the better player. That is how they gave up those big spots in that day as well.
Soemthng else that was taken from the game was the spot shot and playing position off it. I know, I was beaten by many of them.LOL!

Ironman, you really need to disagree with me more often, for my opinion is just one of many informed ones on our forum, and I'm wrong just as often as the next guy.

No doubt, there are elements of the old style that I miss. Like you, I began playing shootout, not Texas Express.

The widely accepted generalization that the old rules favored the better player more than today's rule do will always be a mystery to me, for fewer skills were needed back then. Yes, the older rules favored the great shotmaker more than the rules of today do, but to me, shotmaking skills have become just one of many components in comparing one player to another.

For me, the majesty of nine ball and ten ball, too, lies in the defense, kicking and two-way shots. Runouts are a dime a dozen in today's world filled with sharpshooters who miss 1-2 shots a set, but those who have the greatest billiard knowledge and those that make the most creative choices have an avantage that the player's of yesterday had to a far lesser extent. It takes more skills to be one of the best today, and that's a good thing.

Another thing I like about Texas Express rule is that position play errors are punished with far greater severity than in the old days, as you don't get to push out if you hook yourself, and that's as it should be. As you could push to a relatively neutral position after a position play error, recovering from a mistake in cue ball placement was a simple matter in the supposedly good old days, but today you pay the price. The emphasis on accurate position play is far greater than it used to be, and I think that this, in part, explains why today's players play far better position than their nine ball counterparts of the 1960's and early 1970's - it's because they have to!

The switch to Texas Express greatly raised the bar in our sport.

 

[8ballEinstein]

This whole debate makes me wonder if the game rules make the game exciting, or is it the players. Johnnyt, you mentioned Keith McCready. In the old days we had plenty of exciting players to keep our attention. "St Louis" Louie, Cole Dickson and Earl Strickland come to mind.

Nowadays, we have fantastic players but I can't classify any of them as "exciting", at least to the same degree as the folks mentioned above.

So what I believe made the old style play more exciting was really the players involved.

 

[Johnnyt]

All good points here. After reading sjm's two threads I have to agree that there are more top players today than in the old days. The days are long gone when you can reley on just your shotmaking. I still enjoy watching the top players of today play 9 & 10-ball but I almost always know exactly what shot he/she will play next. In the old days you never knew if he was going to come with a bank, a carom, a combo, or a kick on the 9-ball. and if he was going to make it. Johnnyt

 

[cajunfats]

Going to Heaven??

Two phrases I love to hear:
1) Watch this!
2) Didja see that?

I think good safes are a part of the game but sometimes the challenge of
beating a safety with an impossible shot overwhelms me. I'm a fool for pool. Win or lose.

Thanks for the nice thought. I have always considered myself part player,part entertainer,part teacher. I remember teaching one of my students back in the 80's. I told him that expanding your knowledge in every facet of pool will put you in winning situations where seemingly none exist. "To create something out of nothing is why I play pool." Every game presents me with at least one opportunity to exercise the full extent of my knowledge. You nailed it completely...see you in Heaven....uh,but in case I don't get in,be happy,cuz I'm in Hell torturing Lawyers and Politicians!!!:grin-square:

 

[philw]

being a straight pool player, what's exciting to me is watching a player run a difficult rack of 9ball with precise cueball control and good safety play. this has become the standard because THAT'S what wins tournaments. the only downside to such a match is the lack of TV coverage. unless you make the game more EXCITING for Bubba Sixpack, they won't watch.

It's very difficult to run a rack of 9ball with safety play!

 

[JamisonNeu]

I 100% concur. I think that UPL/Robles 10 ball rules are the closest thing we can get to the old push out rules. It's definitely light years better than nine ball.

I hope 9 ball disappears from play altogether.

Joe Tucker was right all along.

Willie Mosconi's quote...."Nine ball is the downfall of modern pool"

And you cant agree with me now John that is not cool...lol

Nine ball is a game of taking control back from the game and never making errors without a back up plan...Focus and speed control is the key to this game.

 

[ironman]

Ironman, you really need to disagree with me more often, for my opinion is just one of many informed ones on our forum, and I'm wrong just as often as the next guy.

No doubt, there are elements of the old style that I miss. Like you, I began playing shootout, not Texas Express.

The widely accepted generalization that the old rules favored the better player more than today's rule do will always be a mystery to me, for fewer skills were needed back then. Yes, the older rules favored the great shotmaker more than the rules of today do, but to me, shotmaking skills have become just one of many components in comparing one player to another.

For me, the majesty of nine ball and ten ball, too, lies in the defense, kicking and two-way shots. Runouts are a dime a dozen in today's world filled with sharpshooters who miss 1-2 shots a set, but those who have the greatest billiard knowledge and those that make the most creative choices have an avantage that the player's of yesterday had to a far lesser extent. It takes more skills to be one of the best today, and that's a good thing.

Another thing I like about Texas Express rule is that position play errors are punished with far greater severity than in the old days, as you don't get to push out if you hook yourself, and that's as it should be. As you could push to a relatively neutral position after a position play error, recovering from a mistake in cue ball placement was a simple matter in the supposedly good old days, but today you pay the price. The emphasis on accurate position play is far greater than it used to be, and I think that this, in part, explains why today's players play far better position than their nine ball counterparts of the 1960's and early 1970's - it's because they have to!

The switch to Texas Express greatly raised the bar in our sport.

ok, ok!!! Let me try this arfument another way.
I played much better 9 ball when there was 2 shot and Iwant it changed back. My life would change considerable and I would be much happier!! LOL!!
I will however go along with anything which is best for the game,,I meant for me!!

And no, these things have nothing to do with the fact that i only gamble at 1 pocket anymore!!I just love lagging banks!!

If elected I King, I would change many things for me. I doubt it happens though!!
I tip my hat to you!!