One more way to Play 9Ball

[BeiberLvr]

If you have to call your safeties it eliminates the two way shot.....because if you shoot at a pocket and get safe (if you miss) the player can make you shoot again.

In 2 foul, the two way shot is played on a regular basis, if anyone's played it they'd know.

Not 100% correct.

By my rules, if you miss a shot and get safe (without calling a safety), you don't have to shoot again. The incoming player is allowed to push, then, and only then. Once they push, you only have the option of shooting or passing back.

Do my rules eliminate the two-way shot? You bet they do. But it forces players to either go for the shot 100% or go for the safe 100%. None of this in between BS.

It combines the skillful elements (jumping, kicking, and playing safe) that 2 foul doesn't have, while at the same time eliminating the majority of luck at the top level (missing and getting safe). It's the best of both worlds.

 

[CJ Wiley]

You couldn't beat Allison without using this type of shot.

Not 100% correct.

By my rules, if you miss a shot and get safe (without calling a safety), you don't have to shoot again. The incoming player is allowed to push, then, and only then. Once they push, you only have the option of shooting or passing back.

Do my rules eliminate the two-way shot? You bet they do. But it forces players to either go for the shot 100% or go for the safe 100%. None of this in between BS.

It combines the skillful elements (jumping, kicking, and playing safe) that 2 foul doesn't have, while at the same time eliminating the majority of luck at the top level (missing and getting safe). It's the best of both worlds.

Wow, "the best of both worlds"? This is completely in the opposite direction and would encourage an even more diluted game than we have now.

The "in between" is what we call "strategy".....it's what one pocket is all about. The two way shot is the most important and most difficult shot to execute in pocket billiards.

You couldn't beat Allison without using this type of shot.

 

[Black-Balled]

If you have to call your safeties it eliminates the two way shot.....because if you shoot at a pocket and get safe (if you miss) the player can make you shoot again.

In 2 foul, the two way shot is played on a regular basis, if anyone's played it they'd know.

Played it, lots. Always bothered me that people didn't have to shoot the shot they were left.

 

[Magog30]

The most skillful and entertaining shot in pocket billiards is the "two way shot".....one foul takes this (for the most part) out of the game.....and if you have to call your "safeties" it takes the two way shot COMPLETELY out of the game.

Taking the best out of something is usually not prudent....pool's not exception, as usual, it's the "sample example".

There's no better rules for 9 or 10 ball than "Two Shot Shoot Out" (two foul 9 Ball), this is positively true no matter how it's positioned. Pocket billiard's strength is showcasing strategy and creative expression, to take this out is like taking the frosting off the cake....it's still cake, but who wants to eat it?

'The Game is my Teacher'

I agree with CJ about two way shots being a great part of the game. Having to call a safe is not the way to go, IMO.

 

[CJ Wiley]

.it's more like chess, or poker where there's constantly a battle of wits.

The most skillful and entertaining shot in pocket billiards is the "two way shot".....one foul takes this (for the most part) out of the game.....and if you have to call your "safeties" it takes the two way shot COMPLETELY out of the game.

Taking the best out of something is usually not prudent....pool's not exception, as usual, it's the "sample example".

There's no better rules for 9 or 10 ball than "Two Shot Shoot Out" (two foul 9 Ball), this is positively true no matter how it's positioned. Pocket billiard's strength is showcasing strategy and creative expression, to take this out is like taking the frosting off the cake....it's still cake, but who wants to eat it?

'The Game is my Teacher'

I agree with CJ about two way shots being a great part of the game. Having to call a safe is not the way to go, IMO.

I played hundreds of opponents 'Two Shot Shoot Out' because that's the ONLY way the top gambling players (of all skill levels) would play.

The reason "two way shots" are important is a player like will roll out to them constantly....we'll shoot one, two, and three rail banks,extreme cuts (mostly off the end rail) and play safe at the same time....and if we happen to make it we'll also play shape on the next ball....time after time, after time, after time.

The main reason Two Foul is better than One Foul is the situation that sets up the strategic battle of the game is established EVERY TIME......it's more like chess, or poker where there's constantly a battle of wits.....this barely exists in One Foul.

Taking out this element by calling "safeties" is a huge step backwards.imo There's no question about it......everyone will agree if they've played 'Two Shot Shoot Out' under serious conditions. Buddy Hall and every great player of that era will say the same thing about the differences.....and they will be correct from experience not from opinion. 'The Game is Their Teacher'

 

[CJ Wiley]

.when no one's bothered by anything life is no longer life.....it's death.

Played it, lots. Always bothered me that people didn't have to shoot the shot they were left.

It's always bothered me that they label where I park "driveways" and where I drive "parkways".

Such is life.....when no one's bothered by anything life is no longer life.....it's death.

 

[DAVE_M]

Played it, lots. Always bothered me that people didn't have to shoot the shot they were left.

Some ten ball tournament's eliminated the 2 way shot by using the pass back rule. Call your pocket, miss and get safe. Incoming player can make you take the shot instead. Or you can play with a push out at any time.

 

[Black-Balled]

Well, I think 9/10b should be ball in hand after any miss. Then the best player would really be the wiener.

 

[Black-Balled]

Well, I think 9/10b should be ball in hand after any miss. Then the best player would really be the wiener.

Hmmph. Meant winner.

Post padding, check.

 

[CJ Wiley]

...they never tried it again, and the reasons are simple......

Well, I think 9/10b should be ball in hand after any miss. Then the best player would really be the wiener.

We played a major Pro tournament with those rules in Memphis Tenn. Roger Griffis won, Earl Strickland, Mike Massey and myself were in the top 5 (I can't recall the other two who were in the top 5).

...they never tried it again, and the reasons are simple......

 

[Black-Balled]

We played a major Pro tournament with those rules in Memphis Tenn. Roger Griffis won, Earl Strickland, Mike Massey and myself were in the top 5 (I can't recall the other two who were in the top 5).

...they never tried it again, and the reasons are simple......

Can you please elaborate on the reasons? I am looking into the matter coz I always want ask for that as a spot when those bullies ask me to play.

I sure would like to find out for free!

 

[HawaiianEye]

Can you please elaborate on the reasons? I am looking into the matter coz I always want ask for that as a spot when those bullies ask me to play.

I sure would like to find out for free!

My FIRST guess would be it is TOO EASY for the pros and it made the game MORE BORING.

My SECOND guess is because I see that Earl LOST. He probably said he would put on headsets, leg, arm, and body weights..and come back with a javelin for a cue and EVERYBODY said "Earl is crazy...we don't want him to ever have to resort to that!".

Little did they know.......

 

[Black-Balled]

Yeah, I can see that a pro level event like that might get pretty easy...but for me, against a pro...I gotta think I got a good chance like that. He can never play safe and I always start with ball in paw.

I really like total offense games, like ring games. I like to see the guy shoot the impossible shot and get dead in line, over and over again. Probably directly related to the fact that when I run out, it looks hard. :shrug:

 

[Magog30]

We played a major Pro tournament with those rules in Memphis Tenn. Roger Griffis won, Earl Strickland, Mike Massey and myself were in the top 5 (I can't recall the other two who were in the top 5).

...they never tried it again, and the reasons are simple......

I agree, Also, look at all the talent that has come out of the Philippines. They played Rotation with lots of two way shots and NEVER with Ball in Hand.

But what about Earl? Why doesn't he stop his call shot/ call safe madness? I know he is trying to eliminate "the rolls' that are always against him in his mind, but he is making the game less creative and more boring. (Maybe he wants pool to die with him)

 

[CreeDo]

It's really simple. Play is just like one foul, except players must call their safes. If a safety is not called, and a ball is not made. The incoming player has the option to push out. Then the only response can be to shoot or pass it back. So no pushing in the middle of a run, which is my only gripe with 2F9B rules.

Other rules include

- 9 on break gets spotted
- 9 must be called (all other balls are slop counts)

If you call safe, but make the ball (or some other ball) do you get to keep shooting?
I assume not. Otherwise you'd just call safe on every shot.

So what this allows a player to do is make a ball while playing safe.
I don't think that would completely break the game but it would probably make safing easier.
Fell dead straight on a ball frozen to the short rail,
and the next ball is on the opposite short rail?

Just sink the ball in front of you and call safe.
Probably can follow or draw a bit to get an optional bonus hook.
It would add a different flavor to 9b. I'm interested to try it.
Not so much because I'm worried about making 9b more fair,
but just to see how the game feels.

I expect it will slow down... aggressive 2-way shots are discouraged and
there's an awesome new safety tool available for either player.
Both of which add up to more safeties.

 

[sjm]

There have been numerous threads on the subject of the old school push out rules, and how they're so much better than one foul.

While that's certainly true, I have come up with a way to play that trumps both games. It's based on a suggestion I made in another thread, and that will eliminate a majority of luck as 2F9B does, but keep some of the elements of one foul.

It's really simple. Play is just like one foul, except players must call their safes. If a safety is not called, and a ball is not made. The incoming player has the option to push out. Then the only response can be to shoot or pass it back. So no pushing in the middle of a run, which is my only gripe with 2F9B rules.

Other rules include

- 9 on break gets spotted
- 9 must be called (all other balls are slop counts)


Benefits

- Safeties can be played.
- The majority of rolls at the top level are when a player misses and hooks his opponent. These rules don't punish the incoming player when that happens.

I don't agree with the nine not counting on the break and don't think you should have to call it, but otherwise, I'd like to see someone try this. The only negative is that playing with rules that are not those used by amateurs disenfranchises potential viewers of this game, a problem that the world of pro pool has tended to ignore.

Two foul nine ball, which is the form of nine ball I first played, as it exists presently is, by far, the worst way to play nine ball for the very reason you suggest. One should never be permitted to push out after one's own position error.

 

[CJ Wiley]

we should go back to our "roots" as soon as possible....before it's too late.

I agree, Also, look at all the talent that has come out of the Philippines. They played Rotation with lots of two way shots and NEVER with Ball in Hand.

But what about Earl? Why doesn't he stop his call shot/ call safe madness? I know he is trying to eliminate "the rolls' that are always against him in his mind, but he is making the game less creative and more boring. (Maybe he wants pool to die with him)

That's a great point, they don't play "ball in hand" in the Philippines playing rotation. I grew up playing rotation and there was never "ball in hand".......the Game is not designed to play this way, it's like putting "checkers moves" into chess....it would ruin the game.

And it's ruined rotation games like 9 Ball and 10 Ball in the USA.....it's not "rocket science to "real eyes" that the game is boring these days.....but that's not how it was designed and we should go back to our "roots" as soon as possible....before it's too late.

The Game is the Teacher

 

[BeiberLvr]

My main objective was to reduce the luck factor (as in 2 foul), but keep elements like playing safe, kicking, and jumping (as in 1 foul).

 

[Pushout]

I don't agree with the nine not counting on the break and don't think you should have to call it, but otherwise, I'd like to see someone try this. The only negative is that playing with rules that are not those used by amateurs disenfranchises potential viewers of this game, a problem that the world of pro pool has tended to ignore.

Two foul nine ball, which is the form of nine ball I first played, as it exists presently is, by far, the worst way to play nine ball for the very reason you suggest. One should never be permitted to push out after one's own position error.

Now, I could live with not having the option to push out after my positional error IF I make the ball I shot at. But, if I miss the shot and stick you, why should you pay a penalty {kick/jump} on my error?? This is the thing I've always hated about the current rules ever since they were introduced. I've had that happen a thousand times, at least. Don't even start with two-way shot crap! How many two-way shots were just plain misses?? I lean toward called safeties in this case. On a called safety, shoot from where the balls stop.

 

[CJ Wiley]

the luckiest thing of all

My main objective was to reduce the luck factor (as in 2 foul), but keep elements like playing safe, kicking, and jumping (as in 1 foul).

The rules we used with the PCA (Professonal Cue Sports Association) accomplished all those things.

There's one thing that is even more important as far as "luck factor,' and that's to prevent a player from missing and hooking the incoming player.....this is the luckiest thing of all. :blush: