Open or Closed?

Five!? ...I gotta long way to go.

I think I only use an open bridge when I have to cue over another ball. I've read that people also use it when the cue is close to/frozen on a rail. Are there other times?

When I do an open bridge, my cue feels unsteady (especially compared to the closed bridge.) Should I spend time *only* using an open bridge to get more comfortable?

-matthew

Matthew
You should use whatever feels right for you first and foremost. If you are going to use any bridge then you should practice that until it comes naturally to you and you feel comfortable with it.

One thing that I don't think many people practice and I believe they should is using the bridge stick. I have lost count of the number of racks I have won because a very good player simply cannot use this piece of equipment competantly. I have an advantage here though, comming from a snooker background using the bridge stick (or rest) is so much more common. Everyone should be able to use this piece of equipment, if you need instruction go look for Jimmy White videos out there, he is by far the best ever using the bridge stick.

I have now started using the 'London Bridge' as the ones supplied at many Pool Rooms are pretty awful, having your own that fits on your break cue is much better in my opinion .
 
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I'm with Johnnyt, I used both bridges pretty seamlessly, at this point don't even pay attention just get down on certain shots in certain ways without worrying about it. Probably a 70/30 or 60/40 split for me closed vs open. I almost always used a closed bridge on power shots, especially medium to hard draw shots, just feels more secure, but I could use an open bridge if I had to. Obviously snooker players do this quite well so it can be done, just takes a more mechanically sound stroke IMO to keep the cue from wavering or flying up in the air.

To me the advantage of the open bridge is for sighting, especially for a lot of players who are pretty low to the cue. You can have a pretty short bridge and still "see" the shot line very well, with a closed bridge you really need to be at 9 or 10 inches minimum to see enough of the cue past your closed bridge to be able to sight well, for me I'll end up at 11" or 12" easy and sometimes can get too long where accuracy starts to suffer, especially on days when things aren't clicking. Now if you stand a little taller then that visual impairment isn't as much of an issue and using a 6" or 8" closed bridge works just great.

Scott
 
I've always shot with a closed bridge on all my shots. Recently, I've been shooting racks left-handed and have surprised at how much easier it is with an open bridge. This got me to thinking, maybe I should incorporate an open bridge on some certain shots shooting right-handed. I know snooker players shoot with an open bridge and they are very good shot makers. Do you guys that primarily play with an closed bridge find it helpful to use an open bridge when not trying to do too much with the cue ball? Are there certain shots that you find it easier to use? Thanks for the input
FYI, I have a resource page covering this topic (open vs. closed bridge) fairly well here:

Also, the following video Bob Jewett and I did together points out and demonstrates most of the differences and factors to consider:

Enjoy,
Dave
 
kickin chicken and i are on the same "table"....for 30 yrs or so i used only a closed bridge because that was the way i was taught. when i returned to the game after many yrs of laying off, i did much research on getting my fundamentals back (dr dave's included). generally now i am about 70/30using open, but 100% on long shots the open is definetely better, IMHO. it is like sighting down a rifle barrel, make a better alignment to the target. i also agree with the long draw, i seem to do better with a closed bridge. it comes down to the individual maybe but make sure you try both options during drills etc. remember, "let the medicine work".
 
I'm with macguy here, except for me it's 60/40 open vs. closed. Good players swap back and forth all the time. Snooker players use an open bridge on all shots, even the break, when they play pool...so it's not like you can't use an open bridge all the time. That said, I agree with all the posts that suggest closed bridge on draw shots, and especially on power strokes.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I shoot about 60/40 closed bridge. I just feel I see the shot better in many cases with an open bridge. If you watch the pros and pay attention you will be surprised how often they use an open bridge. It is not just a beginner thing is a valuable tool.
 
I'm primarily a closed bridge guy. The open bridge was not as commonly used back when I started playing so the closed bridge was the one I gravitated to. The open bridge is used more nowadays, probably having to do with the more modern trend of getting down more on the shot than the old timers used to, and using the cue more to sight down. Though I do get pretty low on a shot, I'm not sighting down the cue like it was a rifle. Yes it's in my peripheral vision but I'm really focused on the contact point on the OB.

Like a couple of guys have mentioned, I do employ the open bridge from time to time but couldn't really tell you why. I probably use it most on thin cut shots where an uninterrupted line of sight is most important to me.

I just find the closed bridge more stable and helps reduce side to side movement of the cue a little better, or at least it feels like it's a little more stable and helps me deliver a straight stroke whether it actually does or not.

Whichever works for you is fine. "They don't remember how (you ran balls), just how many (you ran)."
 
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closed bridge when we wanna drive across it .
Open bridge when we wanna sail under it .




yup , in Daytona will still use drawbridges :cool:
 
For me... Open bridge for most shots... certainly for all stun and stop shots.

Closed bridge for most every draw shot wherein I want whitey to come back towards me.

And a mix of open and closed bridge for follow shots, depends of the speed of shot. Closed for more powerful follow shots... open for softer ones.

This is what I do.
 
Make an open bridge, put your chin on the cue, take some practice strokes and, while doing so, check and see how there is zero restriction for sighting down the shaft to the tip and on to the intended strike point on the cue ball.

Then, do the same thing with a closed bridge and you will notice that the index finger which is now wrapped around the shaft does interrupt the view you have going down the shaft to the tip as compared with the open bridge.

Again, think chin on the stick.

So, what I am sighting with the open bridge that I can't do as well with the closed bridge is the precise strike point on the cue ball and straightness of the cue gliding back and forth during my practice strokes which I will take as many of as I feel necessary (usually 3 or 4), before following through. Bottom line for me is that the open bridge eliminates a potential distraction.

The key here in my description are the words "as well".

I ask you, how is it possible to have a better view with a finger wrapped around the shaft in a very low stance like I try to be in (chin/stick)?

That said, and as pt and others pointed out, don't choose one or the other as a matter of style, but rather, as a result of what feels best for you.

I see SVB uses his tall closed bridge almost exclusively. And his is an extraoridinarily L-O-N-G bridge, as well.

I've been meaning to have a word with him about that. :rolleyes: :p ;) :D

In my first response I gave the answer and rationale for what works for me. But, again, that's me. :smile:

Best,
Brian kc

Hi Chicken, I tried to reply a few days ago but the post was poorly written. Anyways, you are absolutely right about doing what feels best for you. And while I truly believe that the entire game can be played better with a closed bridge on every shot, I also believe that some people will play better with and open bridge. Actually some shots are better executed with an open bridge, but there are only few of those.

It will propbably take a lot of time to write about the strengths of a closed bridge so I'll do it another time. Basically it has to do with the difference between the front end of a gun when being compared with a cue. Then add to it the many illusions that the eyes have to deal with when obsorbing information for the brain to filter.
 
Make an open bridge, put your chin on the cue, take some practice strokes and, while doing so, check and see how there is zero restriction for sighting down the shaft to the tip and on to the intended strike point on the cue ball.

Then, do the same thing with a closed bridge and you will notice that the index finger which is now wrapped around the shaft does interrupt the view you have going down the shaft to the tip as compared with the open bridge.

Again, think chin on the stick.

So, what I am sighting with the open bridge that I can't do as well with the closed bridge is the precise strike point on the cue ball and straightness of the cue gliding back and forth during my practice strokes which I will take as many of as I feel necessary (usually 3 or 4), before following through. Bottom line for me is that the open bridge eliminates a potential distraction.

The key here in my description are the words "as well".

I ask you, how is it possible to have a better view with a finger wrapped around the shaft in a very low stance like I try to be in (chin/stick)?

That said, and as pt and others pointed out, don't choose one or the other as a matter of style, but rather, as a result of what feels best for you.

I see SVB uses his tall closed bridge almost exclusively. And his is an extraoridinarily L-O-N-G bridge, as well.

I've been meaning to have a word with him about that. :rolleyes: :p ;) :D

In my first response I gave the answer and rationale for what works for me. But, again, that's me. :smile:

Best,
Brian kc


Why do I have to put my chin on the cue???
randyg
 
Why do I have to put my chin on the cue???
randyg

Hi Randy;

Where did you ever hear such a thing? I believe you can put your chin wherever you like. ;)

In my comments on this thread I simply stated that in my style of play, I try to get as low as I can, as in chin almost touching the cue. That's what I feel provides me with the best sightline.

And with that said, when in a low stance (which I can't always do because I'm fat and old), I prefer to use an open bridge on other than power stroke shots.

Best,
Brian kc
 
Before I really got into the game, I always shot with a closed bridge. That's all I knew. Someone introduced me to the open bridge, and now that's all I use. Once I adjusted to the open bridge, I found it was a lot easier for me. Along with practicing more than usual, I feel the open bridge has helped a lot with my stroke control. It feels a lot more comfortable and stable to me. I think it all comes down to what you're comfortable with and which bridge seems to consistenly give you the results you're looking for.
 
Hi Randy;

Where did you ever hear such a thing? I believe you can put your chin wherever you like. ;)

In my comments on this thread I simply stated that in my style of play, I try to get as low as I can, as in chin almost touching the cue. That's what I feel provides me with the best sightline.

And with that said, when in a low stance (which I can't always do because I'm fat and old), I prefer to use an open bridge on other than power stroke shots.

Best,
Brian kc

I've played with my chin on or close to the shaft for most of my playing career. I'm afraid I don't understand how this helps you sight the shot. I've been experimenting with this recently and my bridge has never been in my line of sight. Are you saying you sight down the entire shaft before you pull the trigger?? Would you say this is {uh, oh} an aiming technique?
I kinda agree with Johnny, I don't think I really pay to much attention and just automatically use whatever is necessary. This has come up before and people say they see the shot better, as you describe but I don't see why.
 
A myth about one of the "virtues" of the open bridge

The great Joe Davis (20 world snooker champion) recommended the closed
bridge on 'power screw' shots ('screw' is what I call 'draw')...most players
that insist the open bridge is the only way to play claim they can't see
down the cue any other way.
Well, to me , the cue is not a rifle and you can't get your eyes down to the cue anyways.
To me, having to watch your cue going back and forth is like watching
your wind-shield wipers while driving in the rain..NOT recommended!

I feel you should have both bridges in your game and use either one
at will.
Use which ever one feels good on a shot-by-shot basis.
I think it would be wrong to favor either one as a 'style' decision.

This is probably the "POT" ([p]ost [o]f the [t]hread).

Those that say that they use an open bridge almost exclusive "because they can sight down the cue better / have an unobstructed rifle-like view" are, IMHO, being fooled.

pt109's right -- you can't see "down" the cue, because your eyes are located too far up on your head to get down that low. To get your eyes down that low, you'd have to tilt your head so far forwards and lower your head downwards (at the same time) that your forehead would nearly touch the shaft. And at that point, you would be straining your eye muscles to, basically, "look up into your skull" to even see that sightline "down the cue." (Probably, only the white of your eyes would be visible to someone viewing you from the side of the table.)

And, irrespective of the bridge you use, you shouldn't be looking at your cue's shaft, anyway! Your eye pattern should be shifting from the cue ball to the object ball. The shaft should be in your peripheral vision.

Let's put it this way. Everyone's been to a cinema / movie theatre, right? And you also must know that a "movie" isn't a movie at all, but rather a series of incrementally-changing still frames that are flashed by your eyes per second, right? If so, I have a trivia question for you. There are folks who think that that series of incrementally-changing frames must be so gosh-darned fast that it must be in the hundreds or thousands of frames per second. Here's the trivia question: how many frames per second does a movie in the cinema/theater flash by your eyes? The answer may surprise you. It's only 24 frames per second.

That's all of how fast it needs to be to "trick" your mind into thinking it's a continuously moving picture. Except it's not a "trick." Your mind *wants to* blend the pictures together to make a cohesive / continuous stream. Your mind, being the creative tool it is, is able to "fill in the gaps" and connect them all together to form a single video stream.

And that's how it works with the closed bridge. Remember, you shouldn't be looking directly at any part of your shaft, first of all. That shaft should be in your peripheral vision, "down underneath" where you're looking at the cue ball (which is the closest point to the shaft that your eyes should ever be looking directly at; *maybe* you'll look at the cue tip itself, to verify the contact point on the cue ball, but no earlier on the shaft than that).

When you're sighting the shot correctly, the "break in the shaft" (where your closed bridge is located) is molded back together by the creative properties of your mind -- naturally. You don't even have to think about it, nor attempt to do it. It just happens, like when you're watching that series of incrementally-changing flashes of still frames that your mind enjoys as a "movie."

I'm trained and studied in snooker. And yes, I've had the "clear sightline virtues of the open bridge" shoved down my throat until I choked on it. But while on paper this theory "looks flawless," it isn't. It doesn't take into account the mind's natural and effortless ability to "fix" broken pictures, or to create things out of nothing. (A slight digression -- that is what "art" is to us human beings anyway, right? The ability for the mind to "see" things in a picture of just blotches of colors? And how about clouds? How many of us have stared up into a sky of clouds, and "see" rabbits, trees, cars, explosions, volcanoes, people, etc.? It's the mind's natural ability to want -- no, need -- to do these things.)

So to that school of thought that the open bridge is "superior" to the closed bridge because of that "clear unobstructed sightline picture," I will borrow a hacked/customized quote from a Monty Python movie: "I wave my privates in your general direction!" :D

The true virtues of the open bridge is that it is easy to form with the hand. (Heck, it's just about as simple as slapping your hand down on the table like a hamburger patty, and, of course, forming that "V" with your thumb and the first knuckle of your index finger). Yes, it is true that for some people (that are not forming their closed bridge correctly), the open bridge "seems" to be more accurate. But this is a fault in their closed bridge itself. Either there's too much slack in there and the shaft wobbles around, or else the internal "V" in that closed bridge is not straight up and down -- i.e.: it's laying on its side, like this: ">" or this "<" (depending on whether it's the left or right hand). In that latter instance, the taper of the shaft will cause the center-line of the cue to veer off course because it's following the direction of the open aperture of that lopsided "V" (snooker players call that property "rise").

It's not that one is superior over the other. It's just a bridge and how accurately you form it.

-Sean <-- who uses a mix of closed and open bridges, probably a ratio of 70/30 percent respectively.
 
This is probably the "POT" ([p]ost [o]f the [t]hread).

Those that say that they use an open bridge almost exclusive "because they can sight down the cue better / have an unobstructed rifle-like view" are, IMHO, being fooled.


And, irrespective of the bridge you use, you shouldn't be looking at your cue's shaft, anyway! Your eye pattern should be shifting from the cue ball to the object ball. The shaft should be in your peripheral vision.

And that's how it works with the closed bridge. Remember, you shouldn't be looking directly at any part of your shaft, first of all. That shaft should be in your peripheral vision, "down underneath" where you're looking at the cue ball (which is the closest point to the shaft that your eyes should ever be looking directly at; *maybe* you'll look at the cue tip itself, to verify the contact point on the cue ball, but no earlier on the shaft than that).

So to that school of thought that the open bridge is "superior" to the closed bridge because of that "clear unobstructed sightline picture," I will borrow a hacked/customized quote from a Monty Python movie: "I wave my privates in your general direction!" :D

The true virtues of the open bridge is that it is easy to form with the hand. (Heck, it's just about as simple as slapping your hand down on the table like a hamburger patty, and, of course, forming that "V" with your thumb and the first knuckle of your index finger). Yes, it is true that for some people (that are not forming their closed bridge correctly), the open bridge "seems" to be more accurate. But this is a fault in their closed bridge itself. Either there's too much slack in there and the shaft wobbles around, or else the internal "V" in that closed bridge is not straight up and down -- i.e.: it's laying on its side, like this: ">" or this "<" (depending on whether it's the left or right hand). In that latter instance, the taper of the shaft will cause the center-line of the cue to veer off course because it's following the direction of the open aperture of that lopsided "V" (snooker players call that property "rise").

It's not that one is superior over the other. It's just a bridge and how accurately you form it.

-Sean <-- who uses a mix of closed and open bridges, probably a ratio of 70/30 percent respectively.

Whew! I had a time quoting that one! I've seen a lot of amateurs using an open bridge in the past few years, seems like more all the time. I'd have to agree about the open bridge being easier to make and the fault being in the ability to make the closed bridge. I know that for me, it was really tough and took a few years for me to make, what for me, was a decent closed bridge because I have very short, pudgy fingers and I had to work at it. I'm in no way criticizing anyone using an open bridge, just didn't see why it was needed all the time.
 
Whew! I had a time quoting that one! I've seen a lot of amateurs using an open bridge in the past few years, seems like more all the time. I'd have to agree about the open bridge being easier to make and the fault being in the ability to make the closed bridge. I know that for me, it was really tough and took a few years for me to make, what for me, was a decent closed bridge because I have very short, pudgy fingers and I had to work at it. I'm in no way criticizing anyone using an open bridge, just didn't see why it was needed all the time.

Sorry for the length of that one, Pushout. But I think the movie analogy was apropos to explaining why the closed bridge's "break in the sightline on the shaft" was a faulty argument to the open bridge zealots/advocates.

I have small hands, too. But some focused attention on my closed bridge (taking cues from watching Mike Sigel and Steve Mizerak) put me on the right track to forming a correct closed bridge with the internal "V" oriented correctly.

Anyway, I hope it was helpful info. I tried to make it flow with "stream of consciousness" writing, but if it was too long, I apologize.

-Sean
 
I've played with my chin on or close to the shaft for most of my playing career. I'm afraid I don't understand how this helps you sight the shot. I've been experimenting with this recently and my bridge has never been in my line of sight. Are you saying you sight down the entire shaft before you pull the trigger?? Would you say this is {uh, oh} an aiming technique?
I kinda agree with Johnny, I don't think I really pay to much attention and just automatically use whatever is necessary. This has come up before and people say they see the shot better, as you describe but I don't see why.

sfleinen's thoughts, notwithstanding...

Say I had a rifle and just one shot to kill a charging rhino.

My personal choice in that situation would be to bring the rifle stock right next to my chin (touching), then sight down the barrel, take aim, and then fire.

For me it's pretty much the same logic with a pool cue. I know I can make shots from a taller stance but I've proven to myself that the lower I can get, the better success I will have.

I, too, can shoot well with a closed bridge from a low stance, however, with an open bridge my sightline is not interrupted by an index finger wrapped around the shaft. This is why, I feel, the open bridge offers a slight advantage over the closed bridge. And I figure that's what it's all about in pool, taking whatever advantages you can get, even the small percentage ones.

The rifle analogy is about as good as I can do to relay my thoughts on this. We've all heard the expression "shooting from the hip" (Think Rambo spraying bullets with his machinegun held low). Isn't there a careless connotation attached to that phrase?

I'll bet even Rambo, if he had just one shot to kill, or be killed by the charging rhino, would probably choose to put the rifle stock by his chin for a better look. ;)

I was straightened out good a long while back in a similar discussion over chin on the cue vs standing taller over the cue and I recall some names like Crane, Greenleaf, Mosconi & Fats came up as having achieved some level of success in pool without having their chins rubbing maple.

And to that I say, once again, there is no doubt that both a very low and a tall stance can work, very nicely.

I love to get Pagulyan low, but my belly oftentimes makes me shoot Minnesota tall. :thumbup:

Best,
Brian kc
 
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I honestly couldn't tell you what I use more. If I had to venture a guess I would probably say I use a closed bridge more often, but I could be wrong. I use what feels comfortable to me at the time. I pick the spot I want to hit on the cueball and my hand transforms accordingly. Sometimes I use a tall closed bridge for follow and sometimes its open. I do know when I play bank I almost exclusively use a closed bridge. It's not on purpose, but maybe the speed of the shots dictate to my brain what to use, IDK.

Interestingly enough, my friend would consider himself a closed bridge player. He thought almost all of his shots were done that way. Someone took pictures of him shooting over the course of a few months, and in 95% of the pictures he was using an open bridge. I guess that goes to show a lot of people, like myself, really have no clue.
 
Those that say that they use an open bridge almost exclusive "because they can sight down the cue better / have an unobstructed rifle-like view" are, IMHO, being fooled.

I repectfully disagree but your scientific presentation did have some very good points.

And, irrespective of the bridge you use, you shouldn't be looking at your cue's shaft, anyway! Your eye pattern should be shifting from the cue ball to the object ball. The shaft should be in your peripheral vision.

I do start by looking at the shaft to insure straightness which I know should be automatic if your pendulum mechanics are in good order, but I still do for just one or two strokes, then it's all alternating looks between the tip's contact point on whitey and the object ball.

" I will borrow a hacked/customized quote from a Monty Python movie: "I wave my privates in your general direction!" :D [/I]

All, no doubt, while standing tall over it with a closed bridge. :grin-square:

The image below is a good example of getting as low on a shot as one can, understanding fully that it's his chin on the stick and not his eyeballs. But it is as close to sighting down a rifle as a pool player can do.

Best,
Brian kc
 

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