Opinions on pros wrecking local tourneys
- Thread starter m79a
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if you play a local tournament and there is one or two guys who win it every single week, week in and week out then you should welcome a better player to prove that those guys CAN be beat...i play a very small local tournament in which one guy won all the time and people would quit playing and yes hes a very good player but when i first came he asked me to not play to my speed to not scare people off so i mostly went into it as just something to do it was only 5 bucks after all...after a few weeks i realized WHY he wanted me to play slow because he constantly won it and people stopped showing up because of him so i decided i would play my speed and im not saying that im better than him really but i snapped it off 7 weeks in a row and when people found out that he wasnt winning it all the time we started getting at least 10 of those old players back every week.....the point is if you have one guy who constantly wins all the time....id welcome someone else in to clean their clock for awhile and show everybody else that they CAN LOSE!
and cuebuddy....im not sure who you are...but being a colorado player myself there are very VERY few places that ive seen or been to who will turn away a player for being TOO good....im curious what place it was and where at...or who you are...
If you paid $10 to play in a basketball tourney at the YMCA and Michael Jordan showed up to play in it, would you be mad? What about if Cal Ripken wanted to play in your weekly softball league or Ernie Els wanted to participate in your golf league? Personally I would jump at the chance to play against any of these guys in their field in hopes of learning how to be a better player for a mere $10 as opposed to paying hundreds or thousands to take lessons from someone else that isn't as good as they are.
There is no right or wrong with this situation, its all perceptive. Someone is going to think its wrong while someone else is going to sit there and pray that they get to play against the pro. If the mgt/TD doesn't have a problem with it then those that do will have to sit out or suck it up.
Dale,
One of the threads currently running concerns Mike Sigel and what he charges for lessons. If I had to play Mike a race to three or four, figure it might take half an hour. Perhaps longer. Even if he charges $50 an hour, you'd be getting off cheeeeeeeap for a lesson hopefully learned from a player of that caliber.
Surprizingly, your Pro player might not win. In a short race, strange things happen. Nine on the break. Cue ball kissed into a pocket. One or two unforeseen rolls. Poop happens!
If he played every week and won most every week, the TD or room owner should ask him (or her) to cool it for a while. If they refuse, then give them the heave ho. JMHO.
Lyn
P.S. Wish Roy S. didn't use the banger thing. Describes me to a tee
!!
One of the threads currently running concerns Mike Sigel and what he charges for lessons. If I had to play Mike a race to three or four, figure it might take half an hour. Perhaps longer. Even if he charges $50 an hour, you'd be getting off cheeeeeeeap for a lesson hopefully learned from a player of that caliber.
Surprizingly, your Pro player might not win. In a short race, strange things happen. Nine on the break. Cue ball kissed into a pocket. One or two unforeseen rolls. Poop happens!
If he played every week and won most every week, the TD or room owner should ask him (or her) to cool it for a while. If they refuse, then give them the heave ho. JMHO.
Lyn
P.S. Wish Roy S. didn't use the banger thing. Describes me to a tee
!!
$10 to play Shane in tourney
$10 to play 1 on 1 with Michael Jordan
$10 to try to hit Stephen Strasburg
$10 to catch a few passes from Peyton Manning
$10 to ref a world league soccer game
$10 to bowl against Walter Ray Williams
$10 side wager in a round of golf with Tiger
Yup, I think its pretty much worth it.
$10 to play 1 on 1 with Michael Jordan
$10 to try to hit Stephen Strasburg
$10 to catch a few passes from Peyton Manning
$10 to ref a world league soccer game
$10 to bowl against Walter Ray Williams
$10 side wager in a round of golf with Tiger
Yup, I think its pretty much worth it.
For me it isn't about the money I just like to go and play against the elite. I would rather spend $500 on a weekend and get my brains beat in by a pro than win $100 in a weekly tournament against a bunch of weaker players. For owners that want to try and cater to both points of view. Either have two tournaments a week or alternate them. You can have an amateur tourney and an open tourney in a week. Or just do one of each every other week. You may even get larger turnouts for both since people will know what to expect. Just a thought.
We have a similar situation on a MUCH smaller scale around here. A local bar started up a casual 9-ball tournament on Monday nights, instead of a bunch of us just hanging around, banging. Once it started, instead of just us bangers, we got 3-6 of the better league players who started playing, too. Of course they were never around all those nights with the rest of us, until the tournament started. We averaged 8-14 people for a while, pretty good for amonday night. Just $5, nuthin to it, right?
I have heard of several guys who won't play because they don't have a chance to win against those guys. Me, I love it, for exactly the reasons everyone stated here. I get a chance to play real competition instead of just banging balls around, and I get to play against people much better than me, which can only help. I have spoken with a few of the guys who dropped out, and they do plan on stopping back again, which is good.
Not the "Pro" level situation you folks are speaking of, but similar difference-in-ability issues... I'm looking forward to going there tonight to make my $5 "contribution"!
(Funny thing, last week only 6 people showed up, we played double elimination to stretch things out. Only one of the "good" players showed up, so I managed to grab second place! Out of 6, I realize, but with double elimination I played 4 of the 5 people other than myself who showed up, and beat 3 of them. Man how I chuckle at that. I'll be back where I belong tonight, I'm sure...)
I have heard of several guys who won't play because they don't have a chance to win against those guys. Me, I love it, for exactly the reasons everyone stated here. I get a chance to play real competition instead of just banging balls around, and I get to play against people much better than me, which can only help. I have spoken with a few of the guys who dropped out, and they do plan on stopping back again, which is good.
Not the "Pro" level situation you folks are speaking of, but similar difference-in-ability issues... I'm looking forward to going there tonight to make my $5 "contribution"!
(Funny thing, last week only 6 people showed up, we played double elimination to stretch things out. Only one of the "good" players showed up, so I managed to grab second place! Out of 6, I realize, but with double elimination I played 4 of the 5 people other than myself who showed up, and beat 3 of them. Man how I chuckle at that. I'll be back where I belong tonight, I'm sure...)
Many years ago I used to play in a local tournament that had very very good players. I dont think I ever won 1st and got 2nd just a few times. But I kept on trying and got better and better. Then on the championship tounament one year I got 2nd place, a trophy and a good chuck of change, man was I happy. I beat the big boys. I think I could have won the final but lost my nerve. By now I am battle hardened. I wish I could go back and thank those guys, because now I am one of the big boys and couldn't have done it without em. I never could have got that kind of cheap lessons going heads up against them.
Some of these arguments can't help but make me think what if Mike Tyson in 1989 got to box with the lightweights? They should be honored to fight against him right?
Didn't think so.
Didn't think so.
I agree! Nobody should be banned from "open" tourneys.
I think it should be a draw to a tournament not a detraction. It will give those players who are trying to improve something to gage their abilities against. However, if the guy is beyond what the local competition can handle and he just wins week after week, the house can put a self imposed spot on his abilities that can be adjusted over time accordingly. If the race is to five for instance, you can start by making him go to 7 and see where that leads, you can always add more games if necessary, if he doesn't like it he don't have to come back.
JIMO
If three or four high level players show up at a local tournament, no big deal. If they show up every week it will kill the tournament. I saw a handicapped 9 ball tournament in St Louis go from 25-30 players a week to 5-6 players because the same people kept taking home the cash. My experience is a top level player will outrun his handicap in 9 ball most of the time. If you never get a shot other than kicking at a ball, it doesn't much matter what the handicap is.
Playing a pro like for example Mika Immonen once would be a cool story to tell people about. Paying $20 dollars a week to get run over by Mika Immonen gets a little old.
Playing a pro like for example Mika Immonen once would be a cool story to tell people about. Paying $20 dollars a week to get run over by Mika Immonen gets a little old.
I play in a weekly tournament (sometimes Friday 8-ball and Saturday 9-ball) that often has such players as Danny Harriman and Andy Craig as well as about 5 or 6 other VERY strong players in the mix. Nobody has locks on winning either of those two sessions.
Let them play, maybe it will be the spark that makes a few players start improving their games. Bangers playing only bangers isn't going to involve much learning opportunity.
Let them play, maybe it will be the spark that makes a few players start improving their games. Bangers playing only bangers isn't going to involve much learning opportunity.
It is a known fact, if you start banning people from a tournament becuase they are to good. Start saying good bye to the tournament as well. Seen it several times. Not good if you mess with the money, what happens if some no name beats the pro, and all he gets is an additional $25.
Reminds me when gary abood came in town for a few weeks,only 2 people knew him(tony L. & me) & we just sat back & waited for the storm,they had a $10 torny. & they rated gary a "b" player & that was even more funny. After a couple weeks he just opened up & robbed all of them & a few more to boot, gary,or aka paul,if you read this it was fun.
BuckRiver
Mmm...Orange Crush
Yes when it is a few strong shooters showing up I see that as somewhat fair but if it is one guy is just coming EVERY week and taking peoples money he needs to be handicapped somehow or it will kill the place. Not saying that the other players shouldn't try to step it up but for the betterment of the hall it is not a good idea to let one player keep beating them every week.
I remember going to a tourney yrs ago in Orlando and before I even found a place to park I see Nick Varner and Charlie Williams walking in.I drew Varner in the first round and it was intimidating to say the least...I just knew i had to play smart.I got up 1-0 and was feeling good...then a crowd started to gather.I lost 7-1 but what i took away from that was alot more than the price of the entry.
I say let them play and bear down...it will never hurt your game!!!
that i agree with 100%
I say let them play and bear down...it will never hurt your game!!!
that i agree with 100%
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This one time me and a couple buddies were out to play a round of golf, we normally do $1 a hole skins. 20 minutes before our tee time and we are hitting some balls on the range and up walks Phil Mikkelson, we are thinking "oh great..." Sure enough he was put into our group as a fourth, screwing everything up royally. We went back to the pro shop and demanded our money back. Just not right for places to do crap like that IMO.
PS: The above is clearly "not" true, but it sarcastically captures how moronic I think the mindset many amature level pool players have over stuff like this. In other sports people feel honored to skate around with Wayne Gretzky, play a round of golf with a pro golfer, ect... And the thinking of those people "but...but... I am paying $10 to play in the tournament!" makes it even more absurd. It is $10 freaking dollars, and you might get to play a guy like Chris Bartram or Donnie Mills, who you would otherwise only maybe get to play by upping $500+ to enter a major pro tournament. Seriously clueless and idiotic attitude that keeps those players in the basement of skill levels, not even seeing the opportunity of it all.
PS: The above is clearly "not" true, but it sarcastically captures how moronic I think the mindset many amature level pool players have over stuff like this. In other sports people feel honored to skate around with Wayne Gretzky, play a round of golf with a pro golfer, ect... And the thinking of those people "but...but... I am paying $10 to play in the tournament!" makes it even more absurd. It is $10 freaking dollars, and you might get to play a guy like Chris Bartram or Donnie Mills, who you would otherwise only maybe get to play by upping $500+ to enter a major pro tournament. Seriously clueless and idiotic attitude that keeps those players in the basement of skill levels, not even seeing the opportunity of it all.