Opinions regarding a former top pro playing in and dominating a Poolroom‘s weekly handicapped tournament?

[gregcantrall]

The room owner needs to promote events that appeal to the market that pays the bills. Mixed Couples recreational events can bring a crowd that spends freely.
One couples event I encountered that worked for the house and was fun had the women drawing for partner or drawing to chose a partner. The men paid the small entry. Then we played Scotch Doubles 8 ball. Another Scotch Doubles event paired partners based on fargorate, with highest and lowest paired. It was fun and interest.
McCorrie's in Woodinville made the Friday night tournament a meat shoot to discourage "money players". Very few of them are vegetarian. The $3 entry and good food helped make it a success, filling up every week.
It seems odd when some want to play for money and even big money but don't want any money players.

 

[ChrisinNC]

Did you read the opening post? Since the player we are talking about is a former top pro why do you suppose that he isn't playing in tournaments where other pro's are? Without knowing this player there is no way to know what his motives are. Don't you think he should be playing with a group that is a better fit, especially being a former pro??

I agree that the room owner / TD could have handled this better, and hopefully will realize he needs to do something very soon to protect the legitimacy of his tournament and all his regular tournament players. Although he’s a friend as a fellow area room owner, I don’t feel comfortable interjecting my opinion unless he were to ask me.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Robbing touraments is almost as old as prostitution...

 

[Coos Cues]

Have you see the chip tournament data? Here is the bottom line View attachment 796373

My guess is the games won with a 300 point gap are league contests where the 300 higher isn't taking it as seriously as they would be if there were actual stakes. I know how these games are lost from personal experience. Playing a player that far below it's extremely difficult to take it seriously enough to prevent the occasional loss in casual competition.

Not saying Fargo isn't the most accurate rating system ever conceived but again bring me a 300 fargo player with 1000 or more games in the system and I will play them 8 ball spotting them 11-1 for a friendly wager. $500 a set?

I believe I can prevent them from ever winning a game. I simply cannot envision how it would happen. Would I bet on a 550 to get skunked by an 850 in the same way? No because the 550 can get out in some situations where the 300 simply can't.

 

[ChrisinNC]

Robbing touraments is almost as old as prostitution...

Yeah, and what strange to me is that the room owner/TD is a lifelong player who has owned/run a pool room, run tournaments and played in tournaments himself for nearly 40 years, is a very good experienced $ and tournament player himself, and is very close to the same age as this player in question.

I’m wondering if in some degree he is enamored and honored by the fact that this player has chosen to frequent his weekly tournament, and doesn’t want to risk losing him by handicapping him too hard.

To clarify, this is on the higher $ end of a weekly local tournament – $30 entry fees in addition to $2K-$3K in the Calcutta pot. There is certainly the opportunity for anyone to purchase him in the auction, but it won’t be cheap.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Reminds me of back maybe 15 or so years ago going to Superbilliards Expo for the earlybird Wed Night Warmup in which I think it was $70 entry then if you win 3 races to 2 against random other players you would win $400. It was part of the Amateur events for those who arrived early and lo and behold, who was amaongst the competitors you ask? SVB & John Morra/ lol

After thinking about it I reconciled that I guess if I drew one of them killers it would be a cheap memory for $70 but I still thought it was flat out robbery.

 

[ChrisinNC]

Reminds me of back maybe 15 or so years ago going to Superbilliards Expo for the earlybird Wed Night Warmup in which I think it was $70 entry then if you win 3 races to 2 against random other players you would win $400. It was part of the Amateur events for those who arrived early and lo and behold, who was amaongst the competitors you ask? SVB & John Morra/ lol

After thinking about it I reconciled that I guess if I drew one of them killers it would be a cheap memory for $70 but I still thought it was flat out robbery.

A race to 2 against one of them is not much of a memory, unless you win!

 

[Cornerman]

A top pro pool player back in his prime (+\- 30 years ago) is now frequently playing in a weekly handicapped 9-ball tournament that attracts 30–40 players, with a considerable $ Calcutta pot.

Even though the game handicaps he has to give up are often extreme, as much as 2/10, he seems to win most of the time, often going undefeated. Yes, there are some other skilled players in the field, but no one close to him, even in his advanced years.

As a room owner and tournament director, I have mixed feelings about how I would deal with it if it was happening in our pool room. On one hand, for anyone desiring to get better, an opportunity to play a match against and learn from a player like that should be relished, even if you are mainly just watching.

On the other hand, I’ve heard there are a number of their regular tournament players that are complaining about his participation. I also have a hard time understanding what his motive is to be playing in a tournament like this, unless he really needs the $.

I guess my decision regarding how I would handle this would depend largely on how respectful and helpful he comes across to all the other players he is playing. Just curious as to opinions?

Who? Can’t be Ray. Can’t be Johnny.

 

[lfigueroa]

I think you tell him he's killing the event.

A top player will *alway* find a way to win -- a little dink shot here, a little donk shot there. They will not only consider the lay of the table but also the skill level of their opponent. I don't think Fargo can factor all that in. Soooo, the solution is just to tell him he's out if you want the event to prosper.

The former pro knows he's stealing but probably just wants to compete. But he's still stealing.

Lou Figueroa

 

[maha]

the whole thing is a small local tournament that locals that are not that good play in. some may want a great player in it for whatever, but it gets real tiring watching him run out while you stand there and him taking all the money down every week.

play any game and lose every time while the same player wins and see how long before you quit playing.
that is the gist of it.

its a kin to having an all you can eat buffet and 5 sumo wrestlers come in every time and eat all the food quickly so there is none left for the others to ever get seconds.

 

[couldnthinkof01]

Who? Can’t be Ray. Can’t be Johnny.

Is Guama considered a pro?
Mike Davis out that way also

 

[ChrisinNC]

the whole thing is a small local tournament that locals that are not that good play in. some may want a great player in it for whatever, but it gets real tiring watching him run out while you stand there and him taking all the money down every week.

play any game and lose every time while the same player wins and see how long before you quit playing.
that is the gist of it.

its a kin to having an all you can eat buffet and 5 sumo wrestlers come in every time and eat all the food quickly so there is none left for the others to ever get seconds.

I just looked and it’s not like he’s played every week, but in the last 4 months he’s played in 7 tournaments with 5 wins, 1 2nd and 1 4th place finish. For an average of 35+ players in a handicapped tournament, that does not sound right.

His handicap has gotten tougher over that period since he started, but it doesn’t seem to have slowed him down. My hunch is it won’t go on much longer before he wears out his welcome. The TD / room owner must do something at this point or he may risk losing one of the better weekly handicapped room tournaments in the southeast.

 

[Fatboy]

Robbing touraments is almost as old as prostitution...

That’s kinda the chicken or the egg question.

If the man doesn’t rob the tourney, how does he pay the woman? Does the woman extend credit? lol

Best
Fatboy<——-confused

 

[gregcantrall]

The weekly tournament at Grannies in Federal Way used to take half the money that was from ladies and give it to the top finishing gal. It did so well that the top gal usually got around $30. It paid first around 80 to 100 usually. One week it paid 120 for first (I got it ). The next week The Hat (local pro) was there.
Perhaps giving top C or B players half of the money generated by their class would help. ?????? Of course there's always "Participation Awards".
The White Spot started keeping a record of the weekly winners by preserving a portion of the bracket board that Lenny hand drew on butcher paper every week. It looked like a catalog after a while with page after page showing the weekly turnout and winner. Page after page were headlined with The Z. Zimmerman won more than anyone. and week after week it drew in excess of 32 with an occasional 24. I think it was 24 the week I won. Did I mention that it was more than a year before I won a beer for 7/8?

 

[skogstokig]

I just looked and it’s not like he’s played every week, but in the last 4 months he’s played in 7 tournaments with 5 wins, 1 2nd and 1 4th place finish. For an average of 35+ players in a handicapped tournament, that does not sound right.

His handicap has gotten tougher over that period since he started, but it doesn’t seem to have slowed him down. My hunch is it won’t go on much longer before he wears out his welcome. The TD / room owner must do something at this point or he may risk losing one of the better weekly handicapped room tournaments in the southeast.

in my experience, some of those 35 will never ever win no matter what, some will eke out an unlikely win once in a full moon and some have a decent chance every week. then there's a top 3-4 guys that wins most of the weeks. so who is he pissing off?

 

[gregcantrall]

When I won the Seniors devision in the Lincoln City BCA Nortwest regionals it wasn't enough money to pay for the one week vacation. I was however required to participate as an A for a year, guess Seniors were expected to be B players. I didn't play for a year (just didn't have a vacation) and played as a Senior again after my probation expired and won it again. One was 8 ball the other 9 ball. I can't remember which came first. The next year I got 4th in the A division which got me kicked up to the Masters. No more Seniors division...Ever I only won one match as a Master but it was against a Grand Master that dropped down after the Grand Master division was scrubbed due to lack of participation. That was around the time Fargorate came along. I touched 630 for about a week and hung at 620 for a while. My current Number is 540ish. Over time I have bagged a few 650s a 725 and uh let's see? Oh yeah The Mizz and Mr 600, both in small weekly tournaments. I wouldn't have done any where near that well without Paying My Dues ever week at The White Spot. Shrug Oh well.
Is it rude to bring a brag to a Whine Fest? Sorry.

 

[gregcantrall]

Looking back I figure if I had quit my day job, I could have made? Oh let's see 250 a week as a Pro.....But wait I already was making that as a Hobby, playing After work. Playing pool as a profession is a hard road and I certainly don't begrudge them . Pretty sure I bought the Mizz and Mr 600 dinner and soaked up any and all the knowledge they laid before me as we ate.

 

[BasementDweller]

There's nothing wrong with getting 2nd place out of 30 players. Tourneys don't just pay out 1 spot.

Most tourneys are double elimination so what's the excuse for losing to all the other players?

I haven't seen as many complaints in these types of situations from the lower skilled players who don't anticipate winning, it's usually more the clique of top local players that don't like seeing their money end up outside their circle.

Tourney in question will just be magically Fargo capped in 3.....2......1......

 

[ChrisinNC]

so who is he pissing off?

Don’t know for sure, but I’m guessing mainly the weaker players that he’s likely shutting out when he’s racing to 6, 7, 8, or 9 whereas they have to win 2.

If I was the TD, my initial alteration to the spot in those extremely uneven races is that the weaker player only needs to win 1 game instead of 2. At least that keeps the heat on the top player in virtually every game, every shot right from the start.

 

[BilliardsAbout]

A top pro pool player back in his prime (+\- 30 years ago) is now frequently playing in a weekly handicapped 9-ball tournament that attracts 30–40 players, with a considerable $ Calcutta pot.

Even though the game handicaps he has to give up are often extreme, as much as 2/10, he seems to win most of the time, often going undefeated. Yes, there are some other skilled players in the field, but no one close to him, even in his advanced years.

As a room owner and tournament director, I have mixed feelings about how I would deal with it if it was happening in our pool room. On one hand, for anyone desiring to get better, an opportunity to play a match against and learn from a player like that should be relished, even if you are mainly just watching.

On the other hand, I’ve heard there are a number of their regular tournament players that are complaining about his participation. I also have a hard time understanding what his motive is to be playing in a tournament like this, unless he really needs the $.

I guess my decision regarding how I would handle this would depend largely on how respectful and helpful he comes across to all the other players he is playing. Just curious as to opinions?

Pro friends have been pushed out of much income thanks to Fargo.