Opinions...what would you have done?

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LunaticFringeIn

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Your playing an opponent thats your equal in that your both skill level 6 (APA). Your playing a little bit better than they are although not your best night on the table. Its 2 games to his 1 and your on the 4th game. You got one ball sitting in front of the corner pocket at the head of the table thats a duck shot even Hellen Keller couldnt miss. You have another ball at the far end in front of the corner pocket on the same side of the table with the 8 ball about 4 inches behind (the ball parked in front of the pocket blocking it from going in with out pushing both balls in) it and your opponet has no way to get the 8 around it cuase if they miss you will be set up for the run out. The cue is at the head end of the table on the oppisite side. Your opponet feels a safety/defense shot is too risky on the 8, they decide to shoot the 8 and power the 8 in the pocket after pushing one of your two balls in. They take the shot and exicute it well sinking both and keeping the cue on the table avoiding a scrath on the 8. Unfortunately they forgot to mark the pocket or even call the pocket. You knew what their intent was before they shot. Do you call them on not marking the pocket as per the rules, or do you be the "bigger man", give them the win and rack the balls having the confidence that you can out shoot them to a win? Please explain your decision either way.

*Lets add to this that you werent aware he didnt mark the pocket until his team captain blew a gasket after the shot and chastised him for not doing so. Lets also stipulate that this was a routine weekly match, that while it counts, it doesnt have near the implications it would have if it were a play off game.
 
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LunaticFringeIn said:
Your playing an opponent thats your equal in that your both skill level 6 (APA). Your playing a little bit better than they are although not your best night on the table. Its 2 games to his 1 and your on the 4th game. You got one ball sitting in front of the corner pocket at the head of the table thats a duck shot even Hellen Keller couldnt miss. You have another ball at the far end in front of the corner pocket on the same side of the table with the 8 ball about 4 inches behind it and your opponet has no way to get the 8 around it cuase if they miss you will be set up for the run out. The cue is at the head end of the table on the oppisite side. Your opponet feels a safety/defense shot is too risky, they decide to shoot the 8 and power the 8 in the pocket after pushing one of your two balls in. They take the shot and exicute it well sinking both and keeping the cue on the table avoiding a scrath on the 8. Unfortunately they forgot to mark the pocket or even call the pocket. You knew what their intent was before they shot. Do you call them on not marking the pocket as per the rules, or do you be the "bigger man", give them the win and rack the balls having the confidence that you can out shoot them to a win? Please explain your decision either way.
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if in your league you have to mark the pocket then yeah you call him on it. if you just gotta call the pocket, nah i'd still call him on it
 
I'd give him the shot if it was him and I. The problem is that you gotta mark the pocket, no exception and your generosity might not be shared by your team mates. You have no choice but to call him on it.
 
Assuming it was just a normal weekly match, I would give him the shot and not worry about the nit-picking rules of the league. The shot was obvious and you knew where the ball was going. Frankly, I would have told him to mark the pocket before he shot. I have done it many times in the past. I want to win by playing, not by using a silly league rule.

On the other hand, if it were a playoff match of some sort, I would probably call him on it but, most likely, I would have still told him to mark the pocket before the shot.
 
Rich R. said:
Assuming it was just a normal weekly match, I would give him the shot and not worry about the nit-picking rules of the league. The shot was obvious and you knew where the ball was going. Frankly, I would have told him to mark the pocket before he shot. I have done it many times in the past. I want to win by playing, not by using a silly league rule.

On the other hand, if it were a playoff match of some sort, I would probably call him on it but, most likely, I would have still told him to mark the pocket before the shot.
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Agree completely
 
You knew what their intent was before they shot.
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That's all that matters, so no, would not call him on it.

All the "well its in the rules...." is so chickensh*t. What happened to not being a dick? Who actually feels like they 'won' after doing something like that?

I think little things like this speak volumes about someone's character, or lack thereof.
 
If you were at the apa national event and he didn't mark the pocket would you call him on it? If the answer is yes then what's the difference? If it's a league match then the rules apply. That being said. Do you play harder in a match than you do in practice? Think about it this way, the big boys play their best pool at all times. Not following a rule is like not approaching the table seriously. It's hard to believe nobody on his team said "mark it up" or something along those lines. Most teams when I played around my area had 2-3 players telling their teammate to mark it up before they ever approached the shot.
 
Whoaaaaa!!!

Even as an old-school guy that would NEVER call a foul on someone shooting the eight straight into an unmarked pocket; this should be a foul.

Powering the eight through another ball is DEFINITELY an odd shot - equivalent to a bank, or kick, or combo, or carom. Even in friendly straight pool games for no cash, it is a foul if you don't call a bank, kick, combo, or carom (unless you know the guy really well and absolutely trust his assertion that "I was trying to do that").

Anyway, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I WOULD have called a foul; explaining the reason. If the object ball is touching something else during the shot, you need to call it.
 
I am with the crew that says you do NOT call him on it. You knew what he was going for. Be the better man. If winning like that makes you feel better about your game then by all means, call him on it.
 
I'm still not convinced the guy really went for a shot like that. I could only decide based on the look on his face after the shot.
 
The only thing that would strike me as odd is, why did he have to power the 8 in behind the ball? Powering a ball usually decreases accuracy, so this would lead me to think he was just free-wheeling the shot and hoping to get a lucky safe out of it. Its a lot easier to follow a ball in behind another ball when stroked medium speed. I would probably have to call him on it based on this. Besides, who doesn't call a shot like this when they are attempting it?
 
I think the key in your post is not that he didn't mark the pocket but that he made another ball first in the process of making the 8. I don't know the ruling in your league on that but in the league I played in that would have been a loss of game foul like sinking the 8 early, as the 8 has to drop first(simultaneous splits weren't allowed either) if multiple balls are made on that final shot.
 
On the original topic of patching the pocket, it's the equivalent of calling the pocket. Intentions known don't equal the called or patched pocket in a competitive environment where that is part of the game. I've witnessed a few pro players losing games and more rarely matches based on not calling pockets. It's a technicality type of win but it's still a win and a referee watching would honor that call. If you can win a match without finishing it or pocketing the 8 ball in a game why the problem with this rule?

We all want to win or lose on legally pocketed intentional shots so where is the harm in sticking to the rules. I know when I was playing league that I tended to be lenient on this rule and would point out when my opponent missed patching the pocket. That was my choice and my team agreed that we didn't like winning on that technicality but most of the other teams would take a win on that in a heartbeat. Just my two cents.
 
I play on an Open M8 League where patching is "required" unless the players agree to call the pocket instead.

We have played several matches over 2+ years where patching was missed, both by my team and the other team.

We won't call in on the other team unless they have called us on it previously. This has happened.

If I'm watching, I always tell my teammate to patch if they are patching.
 
Williebetmore said:
Whoaaaaa!!!

Even as an old-school guy that would NEVER call a foul on someone shooting the eight straight into an unmarked pocket; this should be a foul.

Powering the eight through another ball is DEFINITELY an odd shot - equivalent to a bank, or kick, or combo, or carom. Even in friendly straight pool games for no cash, it is a foul if you don't call a bank, kick, combo, or carom (unless you know the guy really well and absolutely trust his assertion that "I was trying to do that").

Anyway, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I WOULD have called a foul; explaining the reason. If the object ball is touching something else during the shot, you need to call it.
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I agree with Williebetmore here. I'm about to reach 400 APA matches and I've never won a single game because of my opponent forgetting to mark a pocket. The few times this has happened, I've let it slide but all of those intances were obvious. The less obvious the shot was, the less forgiving I'm going to be.
 
I would have told him to call it before he took the shot. Then again, I play in a beginner league and having fun is more important to me than winning on a technicality.
 
pooln8r said:
I think the key in your post is not that he didn't mark the pocket but that he made another ball first in the process of making the 8. I don't know the ruling in your league on that but in the league I played in that would have been a loss of game foul like sinking the 8 early, as the 8 has to drop first(simultaneous splits weren't allowed either) if multiple balls are made on that final shot.
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His opponent made the OP's ball on the shot that dropped the 8, so it's not a foul in that sense.
 
If he'd marked one pocket and dropped it in another, would you call him on it? Of course you would. It's a rule of the game. We had the same thing happen in a match at Nationals. Their 7 was playing our 2 and marked the wrong pocket. (I think he changed his mind in mid-routine and forgot to move the marker.)

If he'd hit your ball first and made the 8, would you call him on it? Of course you would. It's a rule of the game.

If the league and match rules include marking the pocket, then you have to mark the pocket. His captain shouldn't be yelling at him about not marking the pocket, he should be yelling at his team for not reminding him. I'll betcha what his captain was really ticked about was that he tried the shot in the first place instead of asking for a timeout.

Anyway it was the 4th rack so neither of you were on the hill, and hopefully it turned out well for you in the end.
 
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