Yeah, you really need to get over yourself Roger..... You're not everything you think you are.
Oscar Dominguez and Amar Kang split
- Thread starter Roger Long
- Start date
Yeah, you really need to get over yourself Roger..... You're not everything you think you are.
How many sports bars around the country have the right amount of tables ?
It's easy to say, "final must be played" if you're watching with your head on a pillow. I'd like to see a final as much as anyone but if it is 3am and I'm one of the players, I'm splitting too.
I remember the finals of one of Gradys legends of one pocket , it was a week of great fun and playing.
The finals were Buddy Hall and Marco Marquez, after the first game of the finals the only people there were Buddy Marco Grady me and two friends who had flown in with me.
The 3 of us would have left but I had made a 100 dollar bet with one of the guys against Buddy.
I have always been convinced that Marco told Buddy he would split and Buddy could have the trophy.
Wish I could find out for sure from Buddy, lol.
I don't really care if they did , {it would have made sense for Marco} I wear big boy pants and I've been around pool and gambling all my life .
The finals were Buddy Hall and Marco Marquez, after the first game of the finals the only people there were Buddy Marco Grady me and two friends who had flown in with me.
The 3 of us would have left but I had made a 100 dollar bet with one of the guys against Buddy.
I have always been convinced that Marco told Buddy he would split and Buddy could have the trophy.
Wish I could find out for sure from Buddy, lol.
I don't really care if they did , {it would have made sense for Marco} I wear big boy pants and I've been around pool and gambling all my life .
I have to agree with cleary here, Roger.
This Mezz West Tour is just another tour (a good one at that I have heard).
We can't expect every single tournament to adhere to the made-for-tv environment.
We have to be flexible as an industry.
Being flexible and allowing changes is what allows an industry to grow.
If we become so stringent on procedure then that could indicate not accepting new ways to improve.
It's not the quantity of pool but the quality of the games that count.
So what if there was a split.
That simply shows our players know how to successfully negotiate among themselves;
THAT is an important attribute our players must have in order to survive on the business end of the sport.
Let's just appreciate this instead focusing on rigid protocol.
Besides, it's Oscar's tour. Let him run it the way HE sees fit. Seems like I have heard that refrain before.
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Just curious as to what ratings poker gets, and why don't the networks think that is boring to watch like pool? Poker gets all night run on espn and msg networks. Its hard to believe that Jasmine ouchan playing xioutung pan is more boring to watch than Texas hold em in the eyes of males ages 20 -35.
There has to be some demographics for pool.
What's your take?
I used to be in the 'no split' camp. Then I played in a tournament and it went late. I was playing a good woman pro in the finals and she offered to split the pot with me getting the win since I won the winners side. I declined because I felt like I could win and I wanted to win outright. It was already after 2 am though I didn't realize how late it was. We started the match and I realized that the reason she wanted to split was because she had to be at work in a few hours. And I could see how exhausted she was. So I stopped the match and we split. Sometimes you just have to be human and have a heart.
The thing is, people playing in regional tours usually have jobs. Many of them travelled to get there. Forcing them to play a match after 2 am on Sunday night is really unfair if both players agree to split. Just so some guy who isn't even playing can recognize a 'winner'. Nope. Doesn't make sense for the people participating.
If you want them not to split, then play in the tournament and force them to play when you get to the finals.
Or if that's not going to happen then pay a fair market value for advertising in the finals to make it worth everyone's while. And by everyone I mean the room owner, the bar staff, the streamers, the commentators and the players. And before it gets brought up, if you pay for a stream and the players split, tough tootsies. Unless the streamer is paying the players to play, they aren't covered in your deal. The streamer is only providing the service of showing you what is happening.
First of all the event was in San Francisco. We ran a 73 player field on 13 tables and paid out 1/3 of the field. Everybody loved it and not a single complaint was heard...
I did not want to split. Amar needed to drive home and offered to forfeit so that he could drive home safely.
I VOLUNTEERED to split because it was the right thing to do. The safety of our players will always come before the spectators.
I lose money doing this tour, but I'm quickly learning why people are turned off by doing this. There are many naysayers and people critical of everything we do. In the end, I do this for the players who appreciate this. Not going to make everyone happy but alas, its my first rodeo and mistakes will be made.
Hope you tune into POV pool this weekend Roger, also see you in Phoenix in JAN. We can further discuss this in person and will listen to your criticism, I don't mind
Oscar Dominguez
I did not want to split. Amar needed to drive home and offered to forfeit so that he could drive home safely.
I VOLUNTEERED to split because it was the right thing to do. The safety of our players will always come before the spectators.
I lose money doing this tour, but I'm quickly learning why people are turned off by doing this. There are many naysayers and people critical of everything we do. In the end, I do this for the players who appreciate this. Not going to make everyone happy but alas, its my first rodeo and mistakes will be made.
Hope you tune into POV pool this weekend Roger, also see you in Phoenix in JAN. We can further discuss this in person and will listen to your criticism, I don't mind
Oscar Dominguez
First of all the event was in San Francisco. We ran a 73 player field on 13 tables and paid out 1/3 of the field. Everybody loved it and not a single complaint was heard...
I did not want to split. Amar needed to drive home and offered to forfeit so that he could drive home safely.
I VOLUNTEERED to split because it was the right thing to do. The safety of our players will always come before the spectators.
I lose money doing this tour, but I'm quickly learning why people are turned off by doing this. There are many naysayers and people critical of everything we do. In the end, I do this for the players who appreciate this. Not going to make everyone happy but alas, its my first rodeo and mistakes will be made.
Hope you tune into POV pool this weekend Roger, also see you in Phoenix in JAN. We can further discuss this in person and will listen to your criticism, I don't mind
Oscar Dominguez
Thanks for destroying pool Oscar...
This is certainly not a new subject to brainstorm, Roger...There are a lot of good points brought up, in both camps. As you know, I am a long time, old school player, and frankly, the time element never entered my mind...In my heyday, (50's to the 90's) there were very few tournaments anyway....You were almost always gambling, and you played 'til you won or lost, whether it was 2 hrs, 22 hrs, or 42 hrs. !...Even the stakehorse's often nodded off !
Split or no split, pool tournaments will never fit the time constraints needed for television, or often even just streaming. If you have an attractive prize fund, you have more bodies. More bodies, equals more time..that cannot be changed ! Editing to fit TV, (assuming the editor knows what he's doing)..or only showing the finals, accomplishes little, and adversely effects the flow, as quite often the best, or most exciting matches may be early in the tournament.
There is another reason pool may never appeal to the masses, that very few seem to consider. In all other sports, there is only ONE game ! ..In pool we have at least a half dozen different games, played on as many different size tables, not to mention often different rules, from venue to venue !.. All "Joe 6-pack" ever cared about, (or knew how to play) was 8 ball..He barely understood 9 ball..Then we sprung one-pocket on him ???.. I strongly believe, that is one reason snooker became so popular, in the UK...There has always been only ONE game, and they do quite well..They have knowledgable live audiences, and a fair amount of interest in sponsorship for live telecasts of their major events. That brings their prize fund, to acceptable levels.
Given the explosion of video games, the social media, and the popularity of the three major sports in the U.S., it is hard to imagine pool rising to any level, (regardless of the game being played) that will support televised sponsorship !..As a 'tongue in cheek' observation, I just can't see even the worst college football match-up, being replaced by Jasmine Ouschan vs. the Black Widow playing 10 ball. (even if they were both nekkid) .. Pool will always be relegated to a niche sport, and with the lack of interest expressed by todays youth, even that may soon dwindle away.
It is a sad state of affairs, for those of us who love the game, but I don't see anyway pool can thrive and prosper, in todays world !...It would need a really good movie, (or TV series) with very popular actors, aired at least once a year, just in order to hold on to what we have...Even then, it would have to be more 'reality based', than to rely on the waning interest in the game itself !...Sorry guy's, but even if that were to happen, I don't see Ford, or GM, or even Joe's Micro-Brewery, beating down the door at ESPN, for sponsorship privledges... I would really love to be proven wrong on this dire prediction, but I would be willing to bet big $$$$$$, that I'm not !..Still, some people think they can bring pool to the masses...Good luck wi' dat !...To them, I may offer considerable odds...CJ. are you listening ?
SJD
Split or no split, pool tournaments will never fit the time constraints needed for television, or often even just streaming. If you have an attractive prize fund, you have more bodies. More bodies, equals more time..that cannot be changed ! Editing to fit TV, (assuming the editor knows what he's doing)..or only showing the finals, accomplishes little, and adversely effects the flow, as quite often the best, or most exciting matches may be early in the tournament.
There is another reason pool may never appeal to the masses, that very few seem to consider. In all other sports, there is only ONE game ! ..In pool we have at least a half dozen different games, played on as many different size tables, not to mention often different rules, from venue to venue !.. All "Joe 6-pack" ever cared about, (or knew how to play) was 8 ball..He barely understood 9 ball..Then we sprung one-pocket on him ???.. I strongly believe, that is one reason snooker became so popular, in the UK...There has always been only ONE game, and they do quite well..They have knowledgable live audiences, and a fair amount of interest in sponsorship for live telecasts of their major events. That brings their prize fund, to acceptable levels.
Given the explosion of video games, the social media, and the popularity of the three major sports in the U.S., it is hard to imagine pool rising to any level, (regardless of the game being played) that will support televised sponsorship !..As a 'tongue in cheek' observation, I just can't see even the worst college football match-up, being replaced by Jasmine Ouschan vs. the Black Widow playing 10 ball. (even if they were both nekkid
) .. Pool will always be relegated to a niche sport, and with the lack of interest expressed by todays youth, even that may soon dwindle away.It is a sad state of affairs, for those of us who love the game, but I don't see anyway pool can thrive and prosper, in todays world !...It would need a really good movie, (or TV series) with very popular actors, aired at least once a year, just in order to hold on to what we have...Even then, it would have to be more 'reality based', than to rely on the waning interest in the game itself !...Sorry guy's, but even if that were to happen, I don't see Ford, or GM, or even Joe's Micro-Brewery, beating down the door at ESPN, for sponsorship privledges... I would really love to be proven wrong on this dire prediction, but I would be willing to bet big $$$$$$, that I'm not !..Still, some people think they can bring pool to the masses...Good luck wi' dat !...To them, I may offer considerable odds...CJ. are you listening ?
SJD
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Thanks for destroying pool Oscar...
I catch your sarcasm, Cleary, but Oscar's not destroying pool and I didn't claim, insinuate, or even hint that he is. Nobody is destroying pool. But then nobody is doing much to make it any better, either. The only way professional players will ever stand a chance at making a decent living at pool is if they (or someone) finally comes up with a formula that will get live spectators and TV viewers to watch. Do you have any suggestions on how we can do that, Cleary?
Roger
I really have to disagree with you on this Bob. Eight guys get to lose once and are still in, but the four that have gone undefeated so far, for their reward in doing so well, now don't get to lose a single match. Very unfair format.
Much better to just manage the tournament better. Shorter races, less players, or more time to play it all. Respect and professionalism has to start with the tournament directors and promoters. Playing until the wee hours of the morning is not a very professional way to run a sporting event you want people to watch and have sponsors for.
edit: One way of getting it done on time is this: You have a regional tournament. Fine, that means you are trying to cover a large area. Then, all you have to do is hold a number of smaller "local" tournaments to see who gets in the regional tournament. You can actually end up with more players contributing to the prize fund at the regionals that way also. And, those that have to work (probably 90% of the players) don't have to worry about going to work with no sleep.
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First off it's not a sport. It's a game.
Secondly, there's no need to stay an extra 60-120 minutes to play the finals if the difference from a split is about 2-300 and its a toss up match anyhow. Best to assure yourself the best guaranteed payday possible or the great event you have had to reach the finals.
Do you see a difference?
Basketball:
Pool:
The event on bottom has a dress code? http://youtu.be/6zXDo4dL7SU
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Hope you tune into POV pool this weekend Roger, also see you in Phoenix in JAN. We can further discuss this in person and will listen to your criticism, I don't mind
Oscar Dominguez
Thank you for your response, Oscar. I was hoping this thread would get your attention, and I'm glad to see that it did.
It grows tiring to see threads started all the time that keep asking the same old questions about why pool players can't make a decent living, and why do pool rooms keep closing, etc., etc., and yet no one ever acknowledges the idea that gaining a live spectatorship and a large TV viewership would be the first step in solving those problems. In fact, if this idea is even mentioned, most people on these forums will say forget it, it can't be done. How negative is that? But if that's the attitude we're going to collectively take, then they're right. We might as well just give up at that point.
I hope you didn't take my post as a personal slam against you, Oscar, because it certainly wasn't meant to be. I have nothing but the utmost respect for you and your father, and for your many and continuing contributions to pool. But, as I said, I was hoping to get your attention because I think you are an open-minded, progressive pool promoter, and you aren't afraid to make changes for the better. Your willingness to respond to my post has proven me to be correct on that. I only wish more pros were willing to come on these boards and discuss things with us.
Thanks, again, and see you soon.
Roger
I guess OP missed Oscar's reply where he said
"... I'm quickly learning why people are turned off by doing this. There are many naysayers and people critical of everything we do."
Roger, do you feel special now that you got his attention? Do you really think this type of thread would encourage more pros to come on these boards and discuss things"? Do you think Oscar was happy to see his name (and the tour he's running) in this thread and was happy to come and contribute?
Hidy Ho <--- feeling special and awaiting Roger's personal reply (and also tired of seeing dumb ass threads on AZ - although don't mind posting in one)
"... I'm quickly learning why people are turned off by doing this. There are many naysayers and people critical of everything we do."
Roger, do you feel special now that you got his attention? Do you really think this type of thread would encourage more pros to come on these boards and discuss things"? Do you think Oscar was happy to see his name (and the tour he's running) in this thread and was happy to come and contribute?
Hidy Ho <--- feeling special and awaiting Roger's personal reply (and also tired of seeing dumb ass threads on AZ - although don't mind posting in one)
The proof is in the pudding
It's sad to say but there is virtually no viewership for pool even from most people that love the SPORT, I'm a diehard stream watcher but I'm an oddity, not the norm,I watch every stream I can (just ask every player I know that I send links to at all hours) and I watch every Mezz event that is streamed ( God Bless Daniel Busch) and I live on the east coast and have stayed up till well past 3 am to watch. But ask Daniel how many viewers he has at any onetime ...350?..500? It's FREE and simple to access and still no one watches.
Sad but true....
P.S. ...I still want to know when Turtle Racks will be available ???
TUNE IN, SOME FINE POOL ON THIS TOUR!
POV Pool
Oscar and Amar Take a Late-Night Split At Palacade – MZWST #5
Posted: 12 Nov 2014 09:23 AM PST
November 9th, 2014
Billiard Palacade – San Francisco, CA
Marquis
The Mezz West State Tour traveled to San Francisco, CA to the Billiard Palacade owned and operated by the enormously generous and kind, Frankie Murcia Jr. and family. A great field of 73 players came from all over California, Nevada, and even from Europe. The 5th stop of the tour was 10 ball to be played on the 13 beautiful AMF antique tables which Billiard Palacade had re-felted specifically for this event.
Screen Shot 2014-10-30 at 10.40.51 AM
The top half of the bracket was dominated by World Cup of Pool team India member, Amar Kang. The Sacramento, California ace has had excellent results on the tour and for years on the west coast with elite players. Some of his victories included a strong win over Filipino champion, Rodrigo Geronimo, Deo Alpojara, Johnny Kang, and Oscar Dominguez for the hotseat. As previously mentioned, Oscar Dominguez came up short to Kang in the hotseat but not before disposing of several strong local talent and Romanian expat, only known as Babken on the bottom half of the bracket.
On the losers side, several upsets took place including the fairly early departure of tour points leader, Rodrigo Geronimo by Hungarian young gun, Attila Bezdan after defeating his best friend and road partner Vilmos Foldes. In addition, former junior national champion, Beau Runningen, fought valiantly on the losers side after a loss to Deo Alpojara. Beau went on to defeat the always tough Justin Logan, Johnny Kang, and Babken until he ran into Dominguez who stopped Beau, from going to the finals.
FINAL 8 Players – (Johnny Kang not Pictured)
Screen Shot 2014-11-12 at 9.20.37 AM
The finals between Amar and Oscar would be a true double elimination where Oscar needed to win twice for the victory while Amar needed to only win once. After a strong start by Kang to lead 7-2, Dominguez forged a comeback to win 9-7 and force a second and deciding set. The duo agreed to call it a night as it was 3 am and it would be safer for all parties driving home that night.
Also, the Mezz West State Tour would like to congratulate Emilyn Collado on her Top Female finish!
The Mezz West State Tour would like to thank their sponsors: Mezz Cues, West State Billiard Supply, Kurzweil’s Country Meats, AZBilliards, NYCGrind, Fast&Loose Designs, ZAN tips, POVPool, and Turtle Rack. Also, a very special thank you to Francisco Murcia and his entire family for their warm hospitality and generosity to promote the sport we all love.
Payouts:
1st/2nd- Oscar Dominguez, Amar Kang : $1,010 each
3rd- Beau Runnigen: $570
4th- Babken Melkonyan: $400
5th / 6th: Attila Bezdan, Johnny Kang: $300 each
7th / 8th: Justin Logan, Rodrigo Geronimo: $200 each
9th- 12th : Paul Silva, Jaynard Orque, Deo Alpajora, Eric Scott: $140 each
13th- 16th : Yoli Handoko , Vilmos Foldes, Ed Ramos, JohnMark Hernandez: $100 each
17th- 24th : E. Dominguez, D. Gomez, F. Robutz, J. Williams, Jay Mulinbyan, Feras Qaddoura, Saul Aguilar: $75 each
Streaming Live Next Week: Mezz West State Tour Stop #6 from On Cue Billiards in La Mesa, CA!
Next stop is at On Cue Billiards in La Mesa, CA. We hope to see you there and be sure to tune in to www.povpool.com to watch all the action live and free!
It's sad to say but there is virtually no viewership for pool even from most people that love the SPORT, I'm a diehard stream watcher but I'm an oddity, not the norm,I watch every stream I can (just ask every player I know that I send links to at all hours) and I watch every Mezz event that is streamed ( God Bless Daniel Busch) and I live on the east coast and have stayed up till well past 3 am to watch. But ask Daniel how many viewers he has at any onetime ...350?..500? It's FREE and simple to access and still no one watches.
Sad but true....
P.S. ...I still want to know when Turtle Racks will be available ???
TUNE IN, SOME FINE POOL ON THIS TOUR!
POV Pool
Oscar and Amar Take a Late-Night Split At Palacade – MZWST #5
Posted: 12 Nov 2014 09:23 AM PST
November 9th, 2014
Billiard Palacade – San Francisco, CA
Marquis
The Mezz West State Tour traveled to San Francisco, CA to the Billiard Palacade owned and operated by the enormously generous and kind, Frankie Murcia Jr. and family. A great field of 73 players came from all over California, Nevada, and even from Europe. The 5th stop of the tour was 10 ball to be played on the 13 beautiful AMF antique tables which Billiard Palacade had re-felted specifically for this event.
Screen Shot 2014-10-30 at 10.40.51 AM
The top half of the bracket was dominated by World Cup of Pool team India member, Amar Kang. The Sacramento, California ace has had excellent results on the tour and for years on the west coast with elite players. Some of his victories included a strong win over Filipino champion, Rodrigo Geronimo, Deo Alpojara, Johnny Kang, and Oscar Dominguez for the hotseat. As previously mentioned, Oscar Dominguez came up short to Kang in the hotseat but not before disposing of several strong local talent and Romanian expat, only known as Babken on the bottom half of the bracket.
On the losers side, several upsets took place including the fairly early departure of tour points leader, Rodrigo Geronimo by Hungarian young gun, Attila Bezdan after defeating his best friend and road partner Vilmos Foldes. In addition, former junior national champion, Beau Runningen, fought valiantly on the losers side after a loss to Deo Alpojara. Beau went on to defeat the always tough Justin Logan, Johnny Kang, and Babken until he ran into Dominguez who stopped Beau, from going to the finals.
FINAL 8 Players – (Johnny Kang not Pictured)
Screen Shot 2014-11-12 at 9.20.37 AM
The finals between Amar and Oscar would be a true double elimination where Oscar needed to win twice for the victory while Amar needed to only win once. After a strong start by Kang to lead 7-2, Dominguez forged a comeback to win 9-7 and force a second and deciding set. The duo agreed to call it a night as it was 3 am and it would be safer for all parties driving home that night.
Also, the Mezz West State Tour would like to congratulate Emilyn Collado on her Top Female finish!
The Mezz West State Tour would like to thank their sponsors: Mezz Cues, West State Billiard Supply, Kurzweil’s Country Meats, AZBilliards, NYCGrind, Fast&Loose Designs, ZAN tips, POVPool, and Turtle Rack. Also, a very special thank you to Francisco Murcia and his entire family for their warm hospitality and generosity to promote the sport we all love.
Payouts:
1st/2nd- Oscar Dominguez, Amar Kang : $1,010 each
3rd- Beau Runnigen: $570
4th- Babken Melkonyan: $400
5th / 6th: Attila Bezdan, Johnny Kang: $300 each
7th / 8th: Justin Logan, Rodrigo Geronimo: $200 each
9th- 12th : Paul Silva, Jaynard Orque, Deo Alpajora, Eric Scott: $140 each
13th- 16th : Yoli Handoko , Vilmos Foldes, Ed Ramos, JohnMark Hernandez: $100 each
17th- 24th : E. Dominguez, D. Gomez, F. Robutz, J. Williams, Jay Mulinbyan, Feras Qaddoura, Saul Aguilar: $75 each
Streaming Live Next Week: Mezz West State Tour Stop #6 from On Cue Billiards in La Mesa, CA!
Next stop is at On Cue Billiards in La Mesa, CA. We hope to see you there and be sure to tune in to www.povpool.com to watch all the action live and free!
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Roger, you either missed my post (#51) or chose to ignore it ?...I ain't exactly no 'banger', and I believe you know how much I have loved the game, all my life !..I wish I could share your optimism, however what you perceive as negativism, I call reality..Sorry, I wish it were different, but sadly, it ain't ! :sorry:
Another sad commentary on the popularity of streamed pool, is that more of us pool nuts watched the match between Lou F. and John Barton, than watched the last match between SVB and Earl Strickland ! (and both were free)...Hardly an overwhelming endorsement for televising 'professional' pool action !..Also, the most boring spectator game in the world, (Bowling) is watched
by tens of thousands more, than it appears will ever be drawn to pool !..It sucks I know, but that's just the way it is ! :frown:
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