Our Pool Subculture-----Deceptive To Us and the Outside World

[crawfish]

Due to the recent Grady thread, I have taken a moment to reflect on the world as we know it as poolplayers. I'd venture that most on here are pretty decent players. But pool, gambling, APA, ranked tournaments, and all of the "let's call them actions" that take place in the poolroom are based greatly on deception in my opinion.

Think about it. Matching up, laying down (whether APA, or gambling, or tourney), telling "pool fibs" to get ranked, blatantly lying while out of town, etc. etc. Out whole subculture is based on deception, for the most part. I guess there are so many scams and deceptions in the pool world that "non-players" see and absorb all of it. Thus, we have made our own bed.

It's like the moment I walk through the door of a poolroom, I flip a switch. We all wear a different personna. When I'm outside of the poolroom, I much more compassionate, caring, helpful and not so "on edge watching for the angle." After walking through the door, I am creating an edge and watching out for the edge on me. It's just weird how different the two worlds are. Not too long ago, I stopped in to see if my friend was hitting balls. Just so happened, I was in a suit, which I wear about half of the time in my biz. First comment I hear, "Court today?" I just laughed, but it amused me. 95 % of the people know absolutely nothing but what they see in the poolroom about the people there. It's really weird to even see someone from the poolroom in a restaurant or at the movies.

Is it just me? Or... are most of you similar in this? Almost two different personalities?

Grady's thread kind of rekindled why I believe it's so hard to make money in pool and noone trusts players enough to dump money into sponsorship. Most of the sport is what I call in "deception mode."

I have also picked up things in the poolroom that have helped me in the outside world. So, I'm not saying it's bad. I just feel that most people are different once walking through the door. And, others see us as deceptive. Just think of the connotation of "hustler", "pool shark". I know the way I see the pool world as opposed to work world. Very rarely would I bring up a gambling story to a physician that is remodeling a million dollar home with me. Make sense? Just a little food for thought.

Oh, and yes. I've done my share of the deceptive tactics. I won't wear white to this wedding.

 

[Mark V]

Very rarely would I bring up a gambling story to a physician that is remodeling a million dollar home with me.

Give it some time dude, perhaps you will some day.

Things I have learned and seen by hanging out in poolrooms has helped me in my profession immensely.

 

[crawfish]

Give it some time dude, perhaps you will some day.

Things I have learned and seen by hanging out in poolrooms has helped me in my profession immensely.

Maybe, but it's not the first thing I want to bring up. Think about it, I'm selling ten grand worth of flooring to someone and then talk about how I gave a false name, false skill level, and then sent them to the atm. Get my drift?

 

[JB Cases]

I have a system to keep the two worlds apart.

I totally agree with you. Our subculture at least the gambling and handicapped tournaments/leagues are geared towards winning by whatever means and not revealing your ability until the trap is sprung.

I don't know that it extends all the way up to coporate America's unwillinginess to sponsor pool. These days corporate America will sponsor anything if you can provide them with a viable vehicle to plaster their logo on. Pool can't provide that ride.

Me, I LIKE the subculture. I like the idea that everywhere I have gone in the world that has a pool table feels like home. I like the fact that a world exists that "normal" people aren't a part of.

I personally don't change into another person in the pool room in terms of being more cautious and less compassionate. I do change into more of an extrovert willing to mix it up and bark with the best of them.

 

[Johnnyt]

Great thread, and it’s very true what you said. Most players do flip a switch when they walk into a pool room. But a lot of companies and their employees are deceptive in one way or another also. Doctors do surgery that doesn’t need to be done. Car salesmen/women flip the switch as soon as someone walks on the lot or through the door.

Pharmaceutical companies advertise and sell drugs that might cure one problem and create 10 more new ones, all the while showing you a happy couple or family on the beach that has nothing to do with what their selling or all the side effects they have to tell you about being drowned out by the loud music in the back ground or the very fine print on the bottom of the screen or magazine. Wouldn’t you say that politicians are all deceptive? Oil companies (oh it’s just a little oil spill, we’ll have it cleaned up in no time. It will NEVER get on the beaches.) are very deceptive. The car mechanic, the plumber, the HVAC repairmen, and on and on.

Almost everyone has that switch, but pool doesn’t have the money in it to hire big PR companies to show them in a different light. If every pro would volunteer a few hours a week to different causes or do some charity trick-shot shows and tournaments held once in awhile, most of the deceptive/bad image in pool would go away. I have been deceptive about 100% of the time that I’ve walked into pool rooms or bars with pool tables. I’ve been just as deceptive as a mechanic, used car salesman, and other jobs and businesses I/had. Pool is what it is and won’t change anytime soon. Johnnyt (far from an angel)

 

[PoolBum]

Pharmaceutical companies advertise and sell drugs that might cure one problem and create 10 more new ones, all the while showing you a happy couple or family on the beach that has nothing to do with what their selling or all the side effects they have to tell you about being drowned out by the loud music in the back ground or the very fine print on the bottom of the screen or magazine. Wouldn’t you say that politicians are all deceptive? Oil companies (oh it’s just a little oil spill, we’ll have it cleaned up in no time. It will NEVER get on the beaches.) are very deceptive. The car mechanic, the plumber, the HVAC repairmen, and on and on.

That's what Fats used to say when they asked him about being a hustler. He said basically that everybody is out there trying to hustle a buck, regardless of their line of work.

 

[DaveK]

It's like the moment I walk through the door of a poolroom, I flip a switch. We all wear a different personna.

Not all of "us". I'd like to think there are others like myself who do not gamble yet love and play the game. As such, I have no need for a "different personna" in the pool hall.

Dave

 

[stljohnny]

Not all of "us". I'd like to think there are others like myself who do not gamble yet love and play the game. As such, I have no need for a "different personna" in the pool hall.

Dave

I'm with you Dave. I've played for (small) money - but it's been straight up. I wouldn't have a problem playing for money more often, or with more people, if I didn't have to try and figure out if the guy's playing an angle.

You play your best, I'll play mine - and whoever wins, wins. No tricks necessary.

 

[stljohnny]

...
But pool, gambling, APA, ranked tournaments, and all of the "let's call them actions" that take place in the poolroom are based greatly on deception in my opinion...

I love that you included sandbagging for leagues and/or tournaments in this list - it's entirely true.

In another gambling thread, someone pointed out the irony that it's all too common people idolize road hustlers, but despise sandbaggers - and really, they're the same; just without the travel stories.

 

[houmatroy]

Nice thread !

I can relate on one hand but on the other I've been called a @sshole in the pool world & also the real world..

 

[Johnnyt]

I can relate on one hand but on the other I've been called a @sshole in the pool world & also the real world..

Yeah, me too. Maybe my switch is broke. Johnnyt

 

[mikeyfrost]

It's kind of funny you make this thread. I played some with my buddy Gary about a week ago and he asks me "Do the people you work with know what type of maniac you are?" I laughed it off and told him of course not. It's true though at work I don't bark and woof and ask my boss to bet something. I'm actually pretty quiet at work and like to stay to myself and just get things done.

In my personal life, pretty similar. Sometimes people will say something to my girlfriend and she will quickly respond "He's only like that in the pool hall." or some similar variant of the same message. In fact I am a bit of a chameleon depending on my surroundings. I consider this a skill in communicating effectively. When I am around my home boys we behave accordingly. Coworkers need a different vernacular. Same thing with a pool hall.

End of the day we all do this to some degree Crawfish, you kind of have to in order to survive.

 

[SpinDoctor]

I agree that many people have a pool hall persona that is very different from their everyday lives away from the hall. I have never been a fan of the hustle and refuse to lay down to get the easy money, instead I play full speed and give up weight when required. On the flip side, I've also taken games without weight that I was a dog in without complaining.

I can only think of one game that I actually felt bad getting the cash but it was one where I was approached by a woman(who plays on the tour part-time) and didn't want to play because she wasn't much of a challenge. After showboating for a while around the room she offered me 2 on the wire, which I actually considered an insult. She left that match with her tail between her legs and I almost gave her the cash back.....almost.

I actually think that the whole hustle aspect of the game leaves pool in the dark ages. It's not glamourous to me, in fact it's kind of sad to see world-class players bottom feeding to make a living. Wander around the VNEA or BCA tournament and take a look at the world-beaters(who aren't playing in the events) trolling the room for fish, same faces year after year.

 

[Tom In Cincy]

I certainly cannot argue about the deception.. in fact I think there even might be a certain level of competition when it comes to how well you can hide your deception amongst even your closest player friends.

"Being the unknown" they even made a movie about that call the 'Color of Money' Just in case someone might be reading this that hasn't seen the movie...

Over the years... (all 45 of them) I didn't hide anything, but I also didn't volunteer much either. I always played just well enough to win or keep my true speed unknown (sometimes even fooling myself when I lost... I told myself I know I can play better than this.. )

Now, and for maybe the last 15 or so years.. I have use pool as an escape from the 'normal' life. Hardly anyone at the pool hall knows what I do for a living or how long I've been married or how many kids I have or for that fact, where I live.. Unless they ask (and most don't) I don't volunteer any info about myself.

I guess that is still a deception at some degree, but I also don't ask a lot of questions of the players. Normally I only ask what their first name is and their last initial when taking names for a sign up list for a tournament.

The house regulars and tournament regulars all know my first name, but very few know my last name or if they do they can't always remember it.

But, there are the stories. We all have them and these stories are shared like french fries. Just don't take the last one.. that is for the player that paid for them.

Listening to the stories is one of the great pleasures I have in this world. There are some really great story tellers in the world of pool. There have been some of the greatest tellers here on AZBilliards. Too bad that some have past on and too bad that some got 'run off'.. but that's life.

If it weren't for that addiction I have to that pool table and the stories and friends I've made over the years.. I don't know that I would ever go into a pool hall again.

Would I recommend this game to someone? I don't know.. what would there be that would appeal to a person in their mid 20s??? really what?

 

[Mike in MN]

I agree with John. I like the pool subculture. We're a bunch of people in love with the game, and most people can't understand that to the degree we do.

What I'm not as fond of are the negative stigmas and connotations that can come with being a pool player. When I met a lot of my wife's extended family, some of them asked what I liked to do for fun. I always lead with, "I like to play pool." I got ribbed a lot with lines like "Whoa, a hustler! I better keep one hand on my wallet!"

But when I told them I also golf, there was not one response like that, even though I've gambled on golf just as much as I've gambled on pool.

It stems from a pop culture perception about the game in my opinion. Sure, a lot of it is self-induced by us as players, but just because we play pool doesn't mean we're all low-down dirty hustlers looking to take your Grandpa's retirement money. Some of us play for the love of the game.

 

[336Robin]

Deception

Crawfish,
Enjoyed your first post it took me back to when I was young. At 13 I would stand outside the poolroom and smoke a cigarette and get into character. When I had myself convinced I was going to go in and lay waste to everyone to stepped up Id go in. I would only take in what I was willing to lose. This was 1975 or so and at the time 13 dollars was my loss limit, a dollar then was like 5 now in buying power. I didnt like losing and was always working an angle. My favorite angle was wearing a suit and tie like some little rich kid and playing with a crooked stick from the rack. I played in places with bar tables so when I would put the quarters in to challenge the table Id make sure I let my hand touch the cue stick as I put the change in the slot and I would roll the stick with my hand. The stick would do its flop, flop on the table and from that moment I had customers. When it was time to collect Id just turn it so the crook was straight up and down and give em their medicine. If I got out it looked like an accident a few times and Id give em one back to keep them in. When they got to cussing I stopped missing because I knew my customers were leaving anyway. A few adventurous souls would step up when it was over but not many.:thumbup:

 

[KSwiss10]

I feel like I practically live in a pool room. I just started playing but love this game so much that as soon as I get off work I drive straight to the pool room, and stay way too late...everyday. I don't gamble yet unless it's with a friend for cheap, or $1 3 ball. There is a guy who I have been playing with for a couple months now who has been passing some of the knowledge he's gained after 40 years of playing and he said, "I always consider myself a student of this great game and never a hustler. I couldn't stand the thought of taking someone's rent money." I like this philosophy and stick pretty close to it.

 

[A.J. DeAngelo]

It's like that Steely Dan song:

Sharing the things we know and love
with those of my kind
libations
sensations
that stagger the mind.

 

[LAMas]

I love to go to the poolhall for the aura. I love to chit chat with the boys. Man I don't even have to shoot anyone before I get hit on for a short term loan - I haven't been paid back for months or years....this never happens at work.

 

[JoeW]

Living the deceived life

Ever see that 20 year old kid walking down the street. He is about five foot one inches tall. You can tell by his build that he lifts weights, probably takes growth hormones too. He has on that football shirt right out of the game with some quarterback’s number but you know he never played on anyone’s team cause he is just too short. He has those Nike running shoes, unlaced and the crotch of his pants is below his knees like a wannabe gang banger. The kid has that swagger about him like he has the nuts in life. He can’t be a gang banger because his clothes are simply too expensive and there is far too much effort placed in his appearance.

We look at him as he walks by, smile to ourselves and wonder if he knows that he is not fooling anyone. We wonder if he knows his ego is too big for his body and that all the show is just that. If his appearance is anything it shows a very insecure person. We don’t even have to hear him talk and only hope that he doesn’t start woofing cause there really isn’t any substance to back it up.

I am describing a real little guy that you have seen and he is a stereotype. That swagger and false bravado can be seen in any pool room where these “little” guys measure their self worth by other people’s statements or the few bucks they robbed from some unsuspecting half wit. The whole thing is pretty sad and sometimes I just want to tell that wannabe hustler to get a life.

In various guises, you can see him in most any pool room -- and he doesn't think he is a nit.