Our Pool Subculture-----Deceptive To Us and the Outside World
- Thread starter crawfish
- Start date
There are "pool players" and "people who play pool". There is a big difference. I don't think one is better or worse than the other. It's just the way it is. A pool player can tell the difference, but I don't think people who play pool can or really care.
How would you describe the difference?
Intentional or not, many do have a different persona when walking through the doors. What inevitably happens though, over the course of time, is the persona gives way to who they really are. Pool will invariably expose you to your very core. Whoever said, "Character's your reaction to adversity" spent alot of time in pool halls. I can tell more about someone's personality/character in a pool room, tourney, or money match then anywhere else. In fact, think of those you know. Many play the way they live. Are they conservative, smooth, fast, risky, safe, aggressive, angry, dishonest, and so forth?. It's not always the case but it's very close.
I wish I had the gift to be able to say it all so perfectly in so little words.
This pretty much sums it up for me.
The way I like to think of it is that adversity reveals character. The person's underlying character is always present, but it is sometimes hidden by acting or pretense. Adversity reveals it, be it beautiful or ugly.
What about prosperity? Does it reveal a person's character as well?
All I know is that I have met a lot of "characters" in the pool room, some of them were damn good actors too.
One of the things I have always loved about pool is that the second you walk in the door of any pool hall, you enter a different world. It is Alice down the rabbit hole.
I remember the first few times I went into a room. I was the teenager standing up against the wall, watching and listening in fascination to a subculture whose rituals and language I couldn't begin to fathom. I was the rube at the fair and I loved it. From the cue sticks carefully screwed together; to the good-natured ribbing and barking of the regulars; to the white-haired old man in suspenders, delicately running ball after ball, and who turned out to be Tugboat Whaley.
In my experience, the thing about pool halls is that it matters very little who you are outside the pool hall door. No one cares about your ethnicity or last name, so all the multiple Daves in the room get assigned their pool hall differentiator: College Dave, Movie Dave, Drunk Dave, etc. Your heritage, being equally unimportant (and political correctness given nary a thought), people happily respond to being called Jimmy the Dago, Billy the Iranian (though he was Palestinian), or Jew Paul.
In the pool hall you can be dressed in a suit or the latest hip-hop attire. You can be carrying a roll of money that would choke a horse, or be standing on your last $10 (or less). You can be a great player or a banger. You can bet it up or be a fun player. You can play one game or play them all, from 9ball, to 14.1, to 1pocket, to 3C, to golf. And everyone freely mingles with everyone else. Who among us has not known judges, made guys, police officers, working girls, school teachers, con men, bankers, gang members, salesmen, and street corner pharmacists, all met at the pool hall? Basically, the social order gets turned on its head inside a pool hall. Simply because I'm one of the better 1pocket players in the city, I have been able to walk into predominantly black pool halls and gotten respectful nods and greetings from gang members that I would not care to run into in a dark alley,
So I'm not so sure that we become different people, or assume alternate characters, when we enter the pool hall... maybe it's more like we just become who we really are.
Lou Figueroa
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Not as well as adversity. When things are going well for a Jeckyll/Hyde personality, Mr. Hyde generally stays under cover.
The hobby and league players are what keeps the public poolroom business alive in the USA. Not pool itself.
It's the private players, in homes and in clubs, that have kept the games alive despite the economy, public interest or perception.
And speaking of...what about private leagues?
And the people who play diehard pool for stakes every sunday at their buddy's house...while never setting foot in a public hall?
These people, you have assumed, have no culture, "lingo", or dedication, other than a way to pass time?
Pish Posh.
I personally know a whole room full of very serious private and league players who would rather shoot themselves in the foot, than appear in a billiard room and do the "I'm cooler than you cuz I'm a playa " bit.
Truth is, yes there are those subcultures that have been discussed here, but then there are men and women who are just as good, and play just as hard, but prefer The Gentlemen's Game subculture to the Hustler's Game subculture.
Clearly, from what you've said, The Gentlemen's Game is not your bag. So basically, you're attempting to speak on behalf of a lot of people that you don't even know, while insulting them in the process...
go figure
Interesting read. Good thread ... but I never learned anything to help me make a buck. 
Whatever, man. How about this. Okay, 95.78%, not all. There. Better?
Good thread. While NYC is very populated, its a pretty small area. I run into people from various pool rooms all over and sometimes its shocking to see these people outside of a poolroom.
I was once waiting in light at starbucks when I noticed Jude Rosenstock was directly in front of me. He was checking out the yogurt or whatever when I commented about how good that was. He looked me dead in the face and responded, but didn't even realize he knew me. It was actually really funny that he didn't even recognize me because he didn't expect to see me there. I talked to him for maybe another minute before he actually realized that he knew me.
But at the same time, a lot of pool players at all levels seem to hang out together here outside of the poolroom.
If you feel that way fine. My perspective comes from being in the business.
If you say so. Since no one can really quantify the amount of "private players" nor separate what they spend on equipment and play time vs. the league players I guess your opinion is as good as any other.
What about them? They don't contribute to the pool economy. Their activities are insular and don't lead exponentially to greater visibility of pool, don't encourage greater participation (see APA), and don't encourage more equipment purchases through exposure of large groups of people to a plethora of gear.
That is correct. I do not consider Joe Bob and Frank who play privately every Sunday at Frank's house to be part of a sub-culture. As for private leagues, such as a company in-house pool league I feel exactly the same, the people who play in such a league could just as easily be in on a company softball team. Billiards to them is just a way to socialize and network.
Great. So you are not part of the sub-culture of players that we are talking about here. In fact you are not part of a sub-culture at all. You are merely going to the club as your way of relaxation to enjoy the hobby you have chosen. We can take any number of activities and substitute the conversation that happens between you and you club friends and there would no difference. You cannot do that with the type of players Crawfish is talking about. You cannot take a diehard pool player and put him in a table tennis "club" and have him interacting with people the same way. The pool room is a special place in that regard.
There is no Gentlemen's Game subculture. No one here said that people who don't play for money can't play or aren't also passionate about playing. I said that there is a definite group of people in poolrooms who understand each other and enjoy the verbal games with each other - not hustlers. Don't be accusatory. It's not one or the other. We are talking about the people who flip a switch when they walk into the pool room and immerse themselves in the matching-up and dick-measuring subculture of pool.
Huh? How do you know who I know? First of all who are you? My NAME is John Barton and I have been involved with pool from the time I was 12 years old, have been in the business of pool since I was 18 years old. I have belonged to private clubs in Germany, held office in a few of them, played pool for money all over the world, played for league teams, played for fun and for free and been present at every strata of pool from the rinky dink bar tournaments with house rules 8-ball to the World Championships in 9-Ball.
I am 42 years old and now I live in China and play pool here when I can.
Again, who are you?
So now that at least one of us has presented their qualifications to back up his opinions let's address the accusation.
I am not speaking FOR YOU. I have this entire thread been speaking for the part of pool that I most identify with and that is the matching-up group of people that is present throughout pool throughout the world. I speak for that group because I am a part of that group. I have been a member of clubs where we play just for the sport of it - no real pecking order - and that's fun too. You are what we call a "fun player" and there is nothing wrong with that so no need to be defensive about it. You ARE NOT the player we are discussing here.
Here's a little test for you. See if you can answer it without looking it up.
Which name is more familiar to you - Ralph Greenleaf or Scooter Goodman?
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If you answered Ralf Greenleaf then you aren't part of our group. Scooter Goodman is a middle of the road player who generates a lot of excitement and action when he walks into a pool room. He is our Rodney Dangerfield. For the people we are talking about Scooter represents the action/adrenaline side of pool that we love. That's the sub-culture you aren't a part of and clearly have disdain for. On the contrary we who like the action don't really care about the fun players. That's your thing and we don't really care as long as you don't get in the way and preach to us.
Now do you want to get up and bet something or are we going to stand around all night?
Alot of people have a different persona when they walk in a pool hall or bar. I believe everyone also acts different based on who they are playing and who they go to the bar/pool hall with. For example, if I am shooting with some friends that really dont play often... I will not play full speed, nor do I care about winning every game. Honestly, who wants to play a friend that doesnt give you a chance to shoot or wins every rack/set?
On the other I am in the Army and the majority of bars I go to are swarming with Soldiers. If anyone has been around a military post, you know we tend to be a little to obnoxious at times and love to brag about being the best to impress the ladies or friends. Normally, if a guy/gal wants to play... I will straight up tell them I am a better player then them. That is generally enough to set them off. Afterwards I have NO problem taking their money.
During work, I do hustle the people I work for... not for money but to get out of stuff or to prove a point. For example, if my boss asks me to do somenthing that is not my lane, I'll act swamped or sandbag to get out of it. But who doesn't do that?
On the other I am in the Army and the majority of bars I go to are swarming with Soldiers. If anyone has been around a military post, you know we tend to be a little to obnoxious at times and love to brag about being the best to impress the ladies or friends. Normally, if a guy/gal wants to play... I will straight up tell them I am a better player then them. That is generally enough to set them off. Afterwards I have NO problem taking their money.
During work, I do hustle the people I work for... not for money but to get out of stuff or to prove a point. For example, if my boss asks me to do somenthing that is not my lane, I'll act swamped or sandbag to get out of it. But who doesn't do that?
bigdaddy58
Registered
crawfish thread
If after 15 minutes of looking and you haven't found the sucker.....it's you.
If after 15 minutes of looking and you haven't found the sucker.....it's you.
I'm glad you gave it some thought and decided to edit your original post. [ The removal of the phrase " Our entire culture... " ]
There are a few more details we should iron out as well, for the record.
There are a few more details we should iron out as well, for the record.
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