Out of country buyers that only wants to use pay pal

mortuarymike-nv

mortuarymike-nv

mortuarymike-nv
Silver Member
I have been asked by a few new azer from other countries to buy a cue from me using pay pal only.

When I said I wouldnt do pay pal but I will do western union ,and offer a refference to other customers that I have dealt with in the past from the same country.
And I never here back from them????????????????????

I wonder how many other sellers are getting hit up on this, and I really wonder if its not a scam.

MMike
 
I'm certainly not going to dispute this possibility. But I will add this to your considerations, WU is common but really a pain for many in other countries. Everything has to be perfect in spelling and this can cause distrust about whether money can be lost. Especially dealing with large amounts of money. Many banks just now are adding the ability to send money between accounts. Much like paypal works. And it's much cheaper. I believe that wu also just went up in price.

Fyi my wife is from Bulgaria and we've dealt with the hastles just a few times. Perhaps it is different if people use it more often.
 
Stick to what you are comfortable with... I only deal with people I really know via Paypal, everyone else pays via Western Union...

I have deals that got turned down due to location/payment methods/exotic materials/etc..., but I also have good deals that pushed through...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
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customers

I have a few business friends in different places in the world.
There are no trust issue....................................



MMike
 
mortuarymike-nv said:
I have a few business friends in different places in the world.
There are no trust issue....................................



MMike
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MMike

The fact that a guy wants to PayPal you Internationally certainly in no way means he's a scam.

However, I wouldn't accept PayPal from out of the US (where I'm also located). PayPal's Seller protection is far different in International transactions than it is Domestically. Even in the Counties where PayPal does offer US Seller's Protection, few International buyers want to suffer the costs associated with doing a transaction in a way that will satisfy PayPal's guidelines for their Seller Protection Program.

My International buyers Wire Transfer me the funds. If they don't want to do business that way, I completely understand (I wouldn't either as a buyer).

Kevin
 
too many hassels

because of the exrta time to fill out the customs forms, because of the extra shipping cost, because of the extra shipping time, and because of the scams- problems if a cue goes missing, i will only ship out of the country to military personal.
 
Straightpool_99 said:
For someone like me, living outside the US, paying by Western Union is a gamble. If something goes wrong or the seller decides to screw me theres absolutely nothing I can do. WU has become a favourite with the Nigerian scammers for this exact reason. As a buyer you have no protection or even anyone to complain to, its all on you if it goes wrong. You won't even get any sympathy from your friends, who will most likely call you a gullible idiot (and be right). At least the wire transfer is a bit better but, most of the time expensive as well. Thats why I buy cues from E-bay stores who accept paypal. Buying from the forum here with wire transfer or WU is just not worth the risk for me.
Click to expand...

I hear you for sure. I wouldn't do it as a buyer either.

On the other hand, as a seller, accepting a reversible payment (like PayPal) from an International buyer carries the exact same risk.

So there you are.

For me, the discussion of risk and payment as as much a part of the transaction discussion as price (plus as everybody knows I'm a pricing lay-down). Most of the cues I deal in have ivory in them, so a discussion about who is a risk (before something goes wrong is the time) is always essential. I've shipped loads of very expensive cues Internationally, declared and insured at $100, completely at the buyer's risk, and thankfully I have yet to have a problem.

Even though its the buyer's risk I'm sure the first time one gets lost or broken or confiscated, I'll stop altogether.

Kevin
 
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desi2960 said:
because of the exrta time to fill out the customs forms, because of the extra shipping cost, because of the extra shipping time, and because of the scams- problems if a cue goes missing, i will only ship out of the country to military personal.
Click to expand...

I see more bad deals happening within the USA than outside the USA.
 
cues

Shipping over seas and meeting pay pay requirments at the same time would kill almost every sale,,
!000,00 $ cue could run 1600.00 after shipping handling isurance and customs.

I have never had any overseas buyer want the cue insured for the full amount because of customs and import taxes.
If I cannot insure for the full amount , Then it would be stupid on my end to think I would ever recover anything over the insured amount.


MMike
 
mortuarymike-nv said:
Shipping over seas and meeting pay pay requirments at the same time would kill almost every sale,,
!000,00 $ cue could run 1600.00 after shipping handling isurance and customs.

I have never had any overseas buyer want the cue insured for the full amount because of customs and import taxes.
If I cannot insure for the full amount , Then it would be stupid on my end to think I would ever recover anything over the insured amount.


MMike
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MMike

That's right. So if you are going to ship undervalued for customs and thus under-insured for the ease of the buyer, the risks incurred for this have to be the buyer's responsibility.

And, just to make sure everybody honors their understanding of the risks, no reversible payments (its one thing to say you will accept responsibility beforehand and quite another when it comes to actually flushing those bucks down the drain).

Kevin
 
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It can all be settled over a phone call and some other party or 2, known to both in this forum to standup for the buyer/seller...

Was selling a wrapless TS cue and antinul wanted it. nick serdula vouched for him... Took sometime to push through, but it eventually came down via WU (Paypal was originally suggested by buyer)... I was sent the $$$ and emailed the receipt, showed them that I got the $$$ (also with receipt) and sent the cue with Tracking Invoice from Post Office... Antinul got the cue 5 days later... Deal closed...

Had another buyer for the same cue who inquired earlier than antinul. After some exchange in PMs, the buyer ask if "I'm in Asia" and I answered "YES..." Conversation stopped... =)
 
Use Paypal

Use Paypal just have them pay you for SERVICES not Goods. If they are comfortable with that, you can't get hurt by them, you don't need to enter tracking.
 
AAplayr said:
Use Paypal just have them pay you for SERVICES not Goods. If they are comfortable with that, you can't get hurt by them, you don't need to enter tracking.
Click to expand...

That won't protect you from a credit card chargeback whatsoever,
 
Hong kong

BlowFish said:
It can all be settled over a phone call and some other party or 2, known to both in this forum to standup for the buyer/seller...

Was selling a wrapless TS cue and antinul wanted it. nick serdula vouched for him... Took sometime to push through, but it eventually came down via WU (Paypal was originally suggested by buyer)... I was sent the $$$ and emailed the receipt, showed them that I got the $$$ (also with receipt) and sent the cue with Tracking Invoice from Post Office... Antinul got the cue 5 days later... Deal closed...

Had another buyer for the same cue who inquired earlier than antinul. After some exchange in PMs, the buyer ask if "I'm in Asia" and I answered "YES..." Conversation stopped... =)
Click to expand...


Wu Is how I have handled all of my over seas sales.
And I pack bullet proof.

MMike
 
I have done 2 overseas transactions accepting paypal and all went well with no hitch (whew). But only after several emails/PMs to the point we both felt comfortable even though there are not the same safeguards. I have also had money wire transferred into my bank account the first time I dealt with an overseas buyer and it went well also, although there was one extra fee that we didn't account for when it hit the middle man bank. The buyer and I split the extra fee if I remember.

It is not my preference to sell to an overseas buyer, but sometimes it's the right thing to do if it feels right.

My 2 cents,
Dave
 
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some countries have foreign currency control policy that restrict every personal money transfer outside of the country. Vietnam is one of them, even Western Union can't help. I will need an invoice of the goods purchased to transfer money out (then the tax issue), or if I can prove that the seller is a family member of mine who needs to pay for their study.

So paypal is the ONLY way to do business with member from certain countries. I guess we have to trust. I fully understand the risk, both sides', but you can always decline to do business if you don't feel that you trust the other party.

Communication is key, and I agree with Dave that we can always decide if a person is trustworthy after a series of email, lol. my first buy on AzB took more than a month, we contacted via email, and I have to ask a fellow Vietnamese who is reputable here on AzB to help out (I did not have an AzB username then). my recent purchase from Dave took about 6 months going from interest to conclusion, and I am very happy and grateful Dave trusted me all the way.

Where there's a will, there's a way, if the buyer wants your cue badly, he will try everything to make it, and if not, don't be hasty to brand him a scammer.
 
Being an overseas buyer myself, i've met quite a few turn downs for shipping cues to me direct so more often than not i have to turn to asking for favours from friends in conus to help out.

For me, i prefer to deal Paypal. Reason is simple, cos it's very very convenient for me. Takes all of 2 minutes to log on, insert email address of payee, confirm amount and click send money. Because i don't have the option to send money as gift or even the option to absorb the 4% paypal fee on my end, i usually discuss this fee option with the seller and for most parts i absorb them.

Being in China, bank wire is a bi*tch...there's very strict control on money going out even more so that i'm a foreigner in China...so i don't do that at all unless i absolutely have to but i haven't done so to date for cue purchases. Also i have no access to W.U, if i do then i might consider that option but only to very reputable seller.

As for shipping, since China will charge atrocious taxes for incoming products any cue that comes to me must be valued at $100-$150 MAX and only shipped to me via USPS. UPS, Fedex, DHL...any famed courier service for that matter will always get me taxed....somehow the local government have it in their hand that anybody who is using cheap international shipping (USPS) must be shipping cheap stuff so the customs don't usually bother with the items. But send a cue declared at $100 via DHL that cost $100-200 to ship and something's wrong...

Since i'm the one that requested for no insurance and low value declaration, i always tell seller that i am 100% liable for if something happens to the shipment. However i tell sellers in advance to practice due diligence in prepping the packaging to make it trash proof...Same goes for anything with ivory, anything happens to the cue and it's all me.

Being overseas i know i need to bite some losses and take more risk so i guess that's just part of dealing.

Going back to Mike's question, i'd say since he is the seller he has every right to turn down any deal that don't make him comfortable.
 
Jive said:
Being an overseas buyer myself, i've met quite a few turn downs for shipping cues to me direct so more often than not i have to turn to asking for favours from friends in conus to help out.

For me, i prefer to deal Paypal. Reason is simple, cos it's very very convenient for me. Takes all of 2 minutes to log on, insert email address of payee, confirm amount and click send money. Because i don't have the option to send money as gift or even the option to absorb the 4% paypal fee on my end, i usually discuss this fee option with the seller and for most parts i absorb them.

Being in China, bank wire is a bi*tch...there's very strict control on money going out even more so that i'm a foreigner in China...so i don't do that at all unless i absolutely have to but i haven't done so to date for cue purchases. Also i have no access to W.U, if i do then i might consider that option but only to very reputable seller.

As for shipping, since China will charge atrocious taxes for incoming products any cue that comes to me must be valued at $100-$150 MAX and only shipped to me via USPS. UPS, Fedex, DHL...any famed courier service for that matter will always get me taxed....somehow the local government have it in their hand that anybody who is using cheap international shipping (USPS) must be shipping cheap stuff so the customs don't usually bother with the items. But send a cue declared at $100 via DHL that cost $100-200 to ship and something's wrong...

Since i'm the one that requested for no insurance and low value declaration, i always tell seller that i am 100% liable for if something happens to the shipment. However i tell sellers in advance to practice due diligence in prepping the packaging to make it trash proof...Same goes for anything with ivory, anything happens to the cue and it's all me.

Being overseas i know i need to bite some losses and take more risk so i guess that's just part of dealing.

Going back to Mike's question, i'd say since he is the seller he has every right to turn down any deal that don't make him comfortable.
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Jive

I hear you man. When I'm buying, I'm paying by PayPal right down the line.

However, for me selling Internationally is a different deal. Lets say I send you a $5K cue and it gets confiscated at customs. You and I had a discussion before the deal about this risk and you said you would take responsibility. But now, here we are, all you have to do to save yourself 5K (which is 100% lost otherwise) is call your credit card company and say "non-delivery dispute". Please understand me, I'm not saying that you would make the call, as a matter of fact, my personal judgement is that YOU would eat the loss because you said you would. What I am saying, is I would be relying on my judgment, making a guess based on probabilities. No matter, what the real odds really are, they are ODDS until it happens. That makes it gambling.

I might be making 300 on that 5K cue. What odds to I need on losing the entire amount to make the risk too much? I would say any odds that the payment could be reversed would stop the deal. A consignors cue? Same thing, any odds at all would be too high.

Business is business, gambling is gambling and I don't think that accepting payment on a business deal should involve any gamble at all.

Thanks

Kevin
 
kvinbrwr said:
Jive

I hear you man. When I'm buying, I'm paying by PayPal right down the line.

However, for me selling Internationally is a different deal. Lets say I send you a $5K cue and it gets confiscated at customs. You and I had a discussion before the deal about this risk and you said you would take responsibility. But now, here we are, all you have to do to save yourself 5K (which is 100% lost otherwise) is call your credit card company and say "non-delivery dispute". Please understand me, I'm not saying that you would make the call, as a matter of fact, my personal judgement is that YOU would eat the loss because you said you would. What I am saying, is I would be relying on my judgment, making a guess based on probabilities. No matter, what the real odds really are, they are ODDS until it happens. That makes it gambling.

I might be making 300 on that 5K cue. What odds to I need on losing the entire amount to make the risk too much? I would say any odds that the payment could be reversed would stop the deal. A consignors cue? Same thing, any odds at all would be too high.

Business is business, gambling is gambling and I don't think that accepting payment on a business deal should involve any gamble at all.

Thanks

Kevin
Click to expand...

I agree with you wholeheartedly and if I'm the seller of a high end cue I'd be thinking the same thing as well. I'm curious though, how many days before credit card company renders the dispute useless? Also how many days before Paypal pays the money to the seller? Once money's been paid to seller by Paypal does that meant any dispute filed with credit card company is futile? I've always been a buyer and never a seller so I'm just curious.

Anyway whether a buyer or seller everyone just wants to reduce their risk so to each their own and hopefully there'll be lesser scam and bad deals going on AZ.
 
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