Outsville Ki-Tech Single Layered Tips

Based on a test Dr Dave ran for us awhile back hardness has a minimal effect on deflection... However elasticity may and it has not been tested yet.... I think that our soft has the most dwell time on the tip and that may mean that the cueball follows the tip a tiny amount closer to the line....

I use the soft and it seems to overspin the ball at slow speeds to the point that you have to consider swerve... The medium at slow speeds is neutral and the hard still has a slight amount of deflection... Since hardness has been removed then COR.. Elasticity.. and rate of rebound may have a place in the equation.....

In a nutshell by my experience the soft performs everything but the high end speeds exceptionally... The medium may be the journeyman as it fits normal rotation game speeds very well.... and for the guys that force the ball around the table and never slow spin balls the hard will let you get the cueball where you want with speed alone......
 
Installed the medium today and played with it.
Hell of a tip.
Grabs the ball and rail really well.
Shapes easy too.
I like the thickness too. Just right. Not too thick, not too thin.
It broke in real fast too.
I'm sending a cue to a customer with this tip for some more testing as he plays a lot more often than I do.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Installed the medium today and played with it.
Hell of a tip.
Grabs the ball and rail really well.
Shapes easy too.
I like the thickness too. Just right. Not too thick, not too thin.
It broke in real fast too.
I'm sending a cue to a customer with this tip for some more testing as he plays a lot more often than I do.
Click to expand...

I see some of the people mentioning here that for the medium, you have to get rid of the top layer otherwise its too hard. Have it happened to you?

I installed a M on my cue shaft as well but currently waiting for my JB case to arrive as I have no case to transport my cues now. Haven't got to try it out at my local pool hall.
 
x3dnd3x said:
I see some of the people mentioning here that for the medium, you have to get rid of the top layer otherwise its too hard. Have it happened to you?

I installed a M on my cue shaft as well but currently waiting for my JB case to arrive as I have no case to transport my cues now. Haven't got to try it out at my local pool hall.
Click to expand...

The medium and soft are both finished with a dye process that includes a hardening agent... Usually a normal installation will remove the outer layer but I have seen installers who shape to a nickel that barely touch the center of the tip leaving the hardened shell intact... If very center of the tip is still dark when installed you will need to take it down a small amount... The hardened "skin" is less than a MM thick so it doesn't take much to get thru it.....

Chris
 
The Renfro said:
The medium and soft are both finished with a dye process that includes a hardening agent... Usually a normal installation will remove the outer layer but I have seen installers who shape to a nickel that barely touch the center of the tip leaving the hardened shell intact... If very center of the tip is still dark when installed you will need to take it down a small amount... The hardened "skin" is less than a MM thick so it doesn't take much to get thru it.....

Chris
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Ohh. Okay.

Damn, that means I shorten my tip's(M) life by alot. :(
 
x3dnd3x said:
Ohh. Okay.

Damn, that means I shorten my tip's(M) life by alot. :(
Click to expand...

Full height the Ki-Techs should play at least 3-4 months before needing replacement... if not longer depending on hours per day... for the average player 9+ months is common....

Show me a soft or medium layered tip that can do the same and I will shut my mouth..... Most layered tips change a full hardness grade in 4-6 weeks or sooner when you by a soft or medium...

Chris
 
The Renfro said:
Full height the Ki-Techs should play at least 3-4 months before needing replacement... if not longer depending on hours per day... for the average player 9+ months is common....

Show me a soft or medium layered tip that can do the same and I will shut my mouth..... Most layered tips change a full hardness grade in 4-6 weeks or sooner when you by a soft or medium...

Chris
Click to expand...

Yeah I get it. I was a S user back then. Just wanted to feel what's the difference between S and M. Your single layer is no joke. Still contemplating about your 25 tips order the last time you mentioned. My forwarder have no more promotional rates. :(
 
Been doing chalk experiments all weekend.... Just replied to your PM... Anyone else that has sent a PM over the weekend I'll try and address later this evening.... May tip runs are ready for pressing and packaging.. So all orders should ship by Tuesday if they were placed since Thursday....

Found some interesting trivia about chalk on a Snooker site... Until the 50s most of the chalk cubes were white? Color was added because of the white chalk being discolored by tobacco smoke in the pool and snooker rooms....

Had never heard that before but I have seen a few of pictures of white snooker/pool chalk on the web but still not sure if I am buying the story.......

Chris
 
The Renfro said:
Been doing chalk experiments all weekend.... Just replied to your PM... Anyone else that has sent a PM over the weekend I'll try and address later this evening.... May tip runs are ready for pressing and packaging.. So all orders should ship by Tuesday if they were placed since Thursday....

Found some interesting trivia about chalk on a Snooker site... Until the 50s most of the chalk cubes were white? Color was added because of the white chalk being discolored by tobacco smoke in the pool and snooker rooms....

Had never heard that before but I have seen a few of pictures of white snooker/pool chalk on the web but still not sure if I am buying the story.......

Chris
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I have no idea if its because of the white chalk being discolored that's why they changed it to blue. But if you look at the chalk collectors thread, most of the vintage ones that they have are mostly in white.
 
Chris,

Check PM again. :)

I think this is part of the way to let you know you have PMs. :grin:
 
The Renfro said:
Full height the Ki-Techs should play at least 3-4 months before needing replacement... if not longer depending on hours per day... for the average player 9+ months is common....

Show me a soft or medium layered tip that can do the same and I will shut my mouth..... Most layered tips change a full hardness grade in 4-6 weeks or sooner when you by a soft or medium...

Chris
Click to expand...

Had a moori (original goof ones) and a talisman m last for 2 years
 
poolplayer2093 said:
Had a moori (original goof ones) and a talisman m last for 2 years
Click to expand...

Am sure any tip can stay on a cue for literally decades... I have some Le Pros on some Mcdermott shafts from the 90s.... It all really depends on the definition of lasts I guess....

Show me a medium or soft layered tip on the market today and I will almost guarantee you that what you buy will not be what you have 4-6 weeks down the road.... This statement is in regard to soft and medium tips.. hards do much much better at holding up regardless of who they are from....

If you had the hard or extra hard talisman I am sure it may very well last 2 years without much of a change but I have played with the Moori M (even the originals) enough to know they change hardness over time... I just put a cpl of them thru COR testing and you can see the indention from the impact test already and that was only from a 5oz weight dropped on it 120-150ish times.......

As far as the difference in hard tips it will be in the amount of grab and the elasticity of the tips that make the difference... On the hard end I have yet to see a tip that I am afraid to put the Ki-Tech hard up against.... Yes I am biased but I also have done enough testing to know where we are......

When I say the soft or medium will last 3-4 months what I mean is playing every day the Ki-tech will not change for 3-4 months in a medium or soft variety.... that at least double of most layered tips.. Even then it won't be the actual tip material that changes but a change in rebound rate because of the size change from when they were new......

I intend to publish test result on tip life cycles... for all the major tips on the market... I have to handle my business first so it will take some time to personally acquire all of the major brands in their different hardness grades... Anyone that wants to throw someone's hat into the arena is welcome to send whatever tip they want tested.... Right now I can test them uninstalled and installed on shafts.... I have a design for an impact tester that will simulate life cycle that I should finish in in the next month or 2.... Until then I am acquiring hardness and COR reading on new tips only....

Nice to know that you lose 17% energy from switching to a BK2 phenolic to a Samsara if you ask me =) You only lose 10 going to the Outsville Solid Leather btw.....

For the last few years we have seen a ton of new tips out there... many of the new tips are the same tips we already had as companies are simply paying for tips out of the far east with their own logo on them...

Sorry for the soap box... Fell asleep on the couch and caught this as I wandered off to the bedroom....

Chris
 
JoeyInCali said:
Outsville M is about the same hardness as a broken-in Moori M.
A little thinner and bites just as good.
Click to expand...

The biggest difference is they pretty much start there... and they stay there.... As soon as you get the chalk into the tip and the fibers layed down you are home... No multi-hour break in unless your installer left them fuzzy......
 
The Renfro said:
The biggest difference is they pretty much start there... and they stay there.... As soon as you get the chalk into the tip and the fibers layed down you are home... No multi-hour break in unless your installer left them fuzzy......
Click to expand...


OK, it looks like you know what you're talking about, Renfro. I will order a couple and give them a whirl. I also have some G2s inbound so it should be interesting.

Lou Figueroa
time for new tips
for the girls
 
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