over 60 years of playing pool

[GoldCrown]

Looking back,I wish I had studied under a teacher,and learned to practice properly

I'm sure you're a decent player. How do rate yourself as a 1P player today compared to the early years. And if you did start out with a teacher what level do think you would be today.
With my ability...If I started in the 60's with an instructor I feel I would be a high level intermediate today. Aside from stroke flaws and game hick-cups my biggest weakness is learning how to win. Not losing patience, end of game focus, etc. I'm weak because I'm an informal afternoon player.... I don't bet/gamble/compete. I think learning how to win comes from the company we keep or employ(an instructor).

 

[deanoc]

as a kid we never played straight pool,gamblers looked down on it
it was considered sissy i guess

9 ball was where the action was and then bar pool

pool halls were even too slow for the most part,even back in the 60s

i fell in love with one pocket at the cotton bowling palace,it was suited to my personality
i won simply with patience and common sense
plus a realistic assessment of my ability compared to my opponent

i won so frequently and became involved in some of the large scores that
i met or knew most everyone,every name in pool

to give you an idea how i play,i have a 9 foot table with 4,75 inch pockets
to practice i practice by playing call shot

it takes me about 10 tries starting with ball in hand to run 15 balls
i don't even try to get into the next rack as a rule

after 3 months my high run is 26 balls

now this is so bad that I can't hardly believe it myself

at one pocket,they tell me i move good
but when i get a spot shot i miss maybe 4 out of 10
a spot shot is very hard for me

i shoot it just about as good from the center slow as from the side like most people

why do i tell you guys this?

because everyone keeps saying,i bet you shoot better than you say

you do,i don't.

and a realistic appraisal of your own abilities is the first great necessity for a pool
player who will bet money.i

having said that,i came to the point in life where i seldom visit the pool room
playing alone makes me wish that i played better

i would like to run 50 balls just one time,it seems impossible
i just wondered if i had some instruction ,and if i had practiced if i would have gotten better
not that i like practice,perhaps i lack a work ethic

i don't even have an aiming system,on really thin cuts i actually aim to miss the object ball about 1/8 of an inch sometimes
my method of handling throw and squirt is to play center ball if i need to make the shot

i shoot easy because when i shoot hard ,i miss

is it nature or nurture?

when Billy said he had help or instruction,it surprised me because he was so good by the time he was 18

i used to watch him and others like the Fox,Vernon,UJ Pucket,Alfie and his brother,and others that stopped by
but no one offered instruction

 

[gregcantrall]

I got lucky

I got real lucky when I asked a road player for lessons. I had been shooting $20 at him every week as he made his rounds to my home tavern. I would do it just to see how long I could make it last. Then it dawned on me that he was controlling how long it would last and I was getting about an hour for my money. So after a few weeks of this I just asked him, "Hey instead of doing this how about if I just pay you for lessons?" (I wanted him to teach me some one pocket.)

His answer tipped me off to how lucky I had gotten. He replied, " I will give you lessons on one condition. We will go back to the basics." When I agreed (wholeheartedly) he then asked my goals for my game and how much I was willing to put into it. I worked full time and just wanted to be the best I could be not necessarily the best in the world.

When I was a child, my Mother made me take piano lessons. I did not much like having to practice an hour a day before I could go play but it did teach me as much about life as it did playing the piano. I would see the teacher once a week for an hour then spend all week practicing what the lesson had entailed along with certain drills. That is the same program my Road Player Pool Instructor wanted to put me on for pool lessons..............Go figure? How lucky did I just get was what I thought of that.

Six weeks was as long as he stayed in my area. It did give me a good solid foundation and I always fall back to what he taught me about the basics, whenever I start to struggle. In the last few lessons we did get around to some one pocket tips as well. After the six weeks, I made my investment back in the first week of tournaments and gambling(small :wink.

Here is a quote from Darren Appleton taken from one of his articles in Billiards Digest.

"And while I can offer you a series of practice drills to improve your game, I will preface this by encouraging players — recreational players, amateur league players and even advanced players — to seek out proper coaching. Coaching can really speed up your learning curve."

This has been my experience as well. I just wish my coach was still available to me today. I would gladly pay for the point of view a coach can provide.

 

[bstroud]

For all of you that wish to improve your game, here is the practice routine that is the hardest and best one to try.

Put a ball on the spot and making sure your stroke is perfectly straight back and through, shoot it in the far corner pocket. Repeat as many times as you can.

5000 balls will do the trick. I haven't gotten there yet, but I see great improvement in finding Center ball when I play.

Bill S.

 

[Catahula]

Sorry Dean

with lots of memories,but when i read these threads about aiming
tempo and many other ideas,i realize i know nothing about a game
i have been playing all my life

Makes me feel strange to be not only a poor player
but not even knowledgeable

as a kid there were no instructors,and the group of players that i met were seldom interested in giving advice,by the time i reached a certain plateau I mistakenly
made the assumption that instruction wouldn't help

not that i lacked opportunities,i spent time with Jersey Red,Eddie Taylor and others,they showed me a few shots,Billy Incardone explained theories about strategy in one pocket but I never really got the basics,in fact I am not sure what the basics are

Looking back,I wish I had studied under a teacher,and learned to practice properly[/QUOTE]
I'm not buying it.
Reading your posts, a few PM's and speaking to you on the phone once, has lead me to believe that you are one of those people who is a very astute observer of people, practices and situations, People like that are a sponge for everything they encounter, People like that don't run their mouths, when they do speak people listen, I expect you have had (and realize) countless lessons. Some you had to pay for, some you got for free by just watching and listening. You, my friend (if I may call you that) are a student of life and you love it.
I think you are trying to sell your game like you sell your pool cues, sight unseen but don't doubt the quality.:smile:
Tommy

 

[Catahula]

Clarification

I didn't mean" lesson" in the Randy G. or Scott Lee sense. I meant it the "Three in the Morning, this bet ain't gonna make it sense. I've had more than one myself and I considered them lessons well learned.
Tommy

 

[greyghost]

I didn't mean" lesson" in the Randy G. or Scott Lee sense. I meant it the "Three in the Morning, this bet ain't gonna make it sense. I've had more than one myself and I considered them lessons well learned.
Tommy

good post:grin::wink:

 

[greyghost]

For all of you that wish to improve your game, here is the practice routine that is the hardest and best one to try.

Put a ball on the spot and making sure your stroke is perfectly straight back and through, shoot it in the far corner pocket. Repeat as many times as you can.

5000 balls will do the trick. I haven't gotten there yet, but I see great improvement in finding Center ball when I play.

Bill S.

great post sir,..........known many variations of this....its a great thing....i like it too close to side rail all the way down, practicing from the second diamond on the long rail and the 0 spot in the jaws as well.:embarrassed2: done it thousands of times but not in a time "frame" lol....maybe couple hundred in a weekend or something....spot shots too and long straigt follows on snooker tables scratching with the follow ins and such.

 

[EddieBme]

great post sir,..........known many variations of this....its a great thing....i like it too close to side rail all the way down, practicing from the second diamond on the long rail and the 0 spot in the jaws as well.:embarrassed2: done it thousands of times but not in a time "frame" lol....maybe couple hundred in a weekend or something....spot shots too and long straigt follows on snooker tables scratching with the follow ins and such.

Are you and Bill using an OB, or just shooting a ball into a pocket?
Eddie

 

[greyghost]

Are you and Bill using an OB, or just shooting a ball into a pocket?
Eddie

if bills talking about what i am, then just a ball as a cue ball and shooting the "cb" into the pocket

the one where i said straigt in and following the OB with a scratch, kind of like the more known end to end draw back and scratch.

wish the wei table still worked....

 

[greyghost]

i worked alot on repeatablility long before i knew anything about the PBIA SPF stuff....that was just understood at the tulsa billiards palace

i would shoot the long straight and scratch b/h the make on the snooker table and have made it over a dozen times in a row, when i was in my teens lol...and thats nothing. seen others do much more than that....but i may do 5,8, etc in rows for hours....and hours...others there were relentless too working stuff like that....

we would hit spot shots for hours...one man may just stand on one corner...

you set......hit. make. ball goes two rail come back to you....spot to shoot as cb...man post ball....drill shot....make bunches of times never move our feet.

little chalk mark to keep spotting "cb"

hours and hours...and hours. i know once we did the spot for 10 straight and were switching out every 10 min with 3 people

 

[Tony_in_MD]

I think I was lucky in this as well.

When I started playing again in 1990 after a long break, the first person I give credit for first developing my game stressed consistency. Like you this was long before knowing anything about PBIA or SPF instruction. I still remember his words to this day. Tony he would say, we are going to get you to the point so that when you are playing in a tourney, win or lose, people watching are going to say, did you see him, how he sets up the same, takes the same number of practice strokes nothing rattles him from his routine.

The hours I would spend on Burts shot number 1 not quitting until I put together a string of 15 dead nuts perfect. Doing the same thing only drawing straight back to my tip.

Building a solid foundation for your game one that you can rely on when there is chaos around you, will serve anyone well.

i worked alot on repeatablility long before i knew anything about the PBIA SPF stuff....that was just understood at the tulsa billiards palace

i would shoot the long straight and scratch b/h the make on the snooker table and have made it over a dozen times in a row, when i was in my teens lol...and thats nothing. seen others do much more than that....but i may do 5,8, etc in rows for hours....and hours...others there were relentless too working stuff like that....

we would hit spot shots for hours...one man may just stand on one corner...

you set......hit. make. ball goes two rail come back to you....spot to shoot as cb...man post ball....drill shot....make bunches of times never move our feet.

little chalk mark to keep spotting "cb"

hours and hours...and hours. i know once we did the spot for 10 straight and were switching out every 10 min with 3 people

 

[greyghost]

I think I was lucky in this as well.

When I started playing again in 1990 after a long break, the first person I give credit for first developing my game stressed consistency. Like you this was long before knowing anything about PBIA or SPF instruction. I still remember his words to this day. Tony he would say, we are going to get you to the point so that when you are playing in a tourney, win or lose, people watching are going to say, did you see him, how he sets up the same, takes the same number of practice strokes nothing rattles him from his routine.

The hours I would spend on Burts shot number 1 not quitting until I put together a string of 15 dead nuts perfect. Doing the same thing only drawing straight back to my tip.

Building a solid foundation for your game one that you can rely on when there is chaos around you, will serve anyone well.

very well said

 

[deanoc]

i actually was hoping to hear some testimonials showing the benefit ofl essons in developing
your game

please allow me to give an example that Bob Owen told me about Gabe

he spent 12 hours per day practicing...bob

me"what do you mean practicing?"

He would run racks and every time he missed a shot he would shoot it
over and over and over etc"...bob

I hate to say it,but I never even thought of that before

 

[Catahula]

Formal lessons do help

I just took one a couple of weeks ago from John Schmidt. He watched me and had me change a couple of things. Changes that I thought were heretical of every thing that I had been taught or read previously. Changes that I was dubious about but followed none the less.
Bob Jewett is a big proponent of progressive drills and I have incorporated that concept into my practice routine. This gives you improvement in bite sized bits and allows you to have a yardstick to effectively measure your progress..
I'm lucky. I'm a ball beater. I enjoy practice. I have a table in my house.
At 68 years old I am playing better, smarter pool now than I ever had before. I just have to resist that feeling of where was all of this when I was in my 20's and billiards was just "hit it, go find it. hit it again".
You can't see the future looking in a rear view mirror.
Tommy

 

[bstroud]

I guess I wasn't clear enought.

Put a white ring where the spot would be on the breaking end.

Shoot numbered balls from the head spot into the far corner pocket. No cue ball.

Shoot them back from the white spot on the other end.

Tom Lowery is the one I got the exercise from.

I grew up on slow cloth and had a big stroke with a lot of wrist action. I could move the cue ball any where.

On the new tables with Simonis cloth and tight pockets Too much wrist means Too many hung balls.

To simplify my stroke and make it more accurate I practice the above drill.

If you can shoot long straight shots 20 to 50 times without missing and stop the cue ball every time with no spin you probably don't need the drill.

It has worked wonders for me and has also increased my concentration.

Bill S.

 

[grindz]

Dean,

I'm guessing that you always had a lot going on,....
that you could gamble as much as you wanted
without raising your game......
that maybe you don't like to practice.....
that possibly pool isn't fun for you w/out the gamble.....

??

I can't say good or bad about instruction, but I know that a
good sparring partner can be invaluable, and maybe all those
talents you were around just were hoping to give you the nuts
so they could outrun them. :wink:

td
And by the way.... still playing with MY JW since the early 80's
thanks for that Bill.

 

[GoldCrown]

Quote...I know a couple,but I don't think it would really make me any better.

Don't know until you try one. I thought the same. I went from a casual pretty poor shooter to a c level and growing. I have what to work with to keep improving. The instructor gives us the tools and a plan. Otherwise this is as good as it gets. Learn one new thing and the game changes. A stroke instructor is one, the game instructor is another. I have been taking weekly 1p lessons. However I started from scratch (no pun) and can only keep getting better. I'm a person than cannot learn on my on. I do not know what and where to start. Cheers to those instructors out there. Cheers to the SPF system. It's my base.

I play in senior league in S. Florida. I was one of the top 10 players but could not beat certain players. My goal years ago was to win the singles match and I did this season. Lessons / instructors work for me. Special thanks to Scott Lee and Tom Wirth. My biggest problem today is my eyes. My eye wear gets bigger and thicker each year. I dub my glasses The Hubble.

 

[FranCrimi]

Dean, I have found that most people who have a negative experience with pool lessons experience one of two problems:

1. The teacher: Many teachers aren't very insightful and are not as good troubleshooters as they think they are. They don't pay enough attention to the person they're working with, and are over anxious to do their thing rather than meet the specific needs of the player.

2. The player: Many players who go for lessons underestimate the concept of 'change.' Change is uncomfortable. Breaking a bad habit takes time and effort. Once they get out of their comfort zones, they will eventually give up the new stuff and revert back to their old selves. Sometimes they will blame the teacher for not doing a good job and sometimes they accept the blame and will decide that change is too hard for them.

 

[GoldCrown]

Dean, I have found that most people will experience one of two problems with pool lessons.

1. The teacher: Many teachers aren't very insightful. They don't pay enough attention to the person they're working with, and are over anxious to do their thing rather than meet the needs of the player.

2. The player: Many players who go for lessons underestimate the concept of 'change.' Change is uncomfortable. Breaking a bad habit takes time and effort. Once they get out of their comfort zones, they will eventually give up the new stuff and revert back to their old selves. Sometimes they will blame the teacher for not doing a good job and sometimes they accept the blame and will decide that change is too hard for them.

tap tap... the student must being willing to change and work hard. And it's very important not to have any unreal expectations. I know of a few people did exactly what you stated. Did nothing to change and blamed their instructor. That's pretty weak.