Oxymoron - Invitational World Championship

[Scaramouche]

Sitting on the outside, and completely unfamiliar with the wild west disorganization of U.S. pool, it seems to me that a World Championship should have clear criteria for qualifying.

If no clear method for qualifying exists, and instead entry is based on invitations, lobbying, personal feuds, and sponsor favouritism, the "world championship" has no credibility.

To complain about being left out has nothing to do with the reputation of the player excluded, and everything to do with wanting a crack at the money.

To win a "world championship" that has been rigged to exclude highly competitive players is to achieve a worthless title. And everyone will know it.

 

[CreeDo]

EDIT: lol I thought this was about the 14.1 event, but I'm guessing this is in response to the list of invitees for
the 2007 wpc... totally different animal.

I'll leave my original post in case I'm guessing wrong. I think the point I'm making applies still.

======================

we still going on about grady? I thought grady's 11 different threads pretty much covered this lol...

I like the idea of qualifying too, but as long as the invitational has a really deep field with lots of world-class players (including arguably the top 5 on the planet?) it'll be a good tournament for the players and fans both.

Maybe it doesn't perfectly establish the exact #1 - #50 best players in the world, but I think the top spots in that tournament would have turned out the same even ifevery person you're thinking of got invited. What player with a real shot at #1 was denied that chance? Grady was a contender to finish in the money so maybe he's missed out on something... but I don't think he has Toasti or Engert's number in terms of winning it.

Then again, tournaments are funny... it's more about the best player on that day of the week, so they say.

I think efforts to criticise ANY pool tournament kinda suck (no offense scar, I usually like what you have to say). We're in a situation where pool and especially 14.1 doesn't get the recognition and money it should. I'd rather we focused on encouraging all tournaments... good, bad, ugly, fair, unfair.

Maybe when pool gets taken seriously by a large chunk of the usa (not to mention others), it will be more important to make sure that the tournament format and seeding and qualifying and all that other blah-blah is perfectly fair. Until that day, it really works against pool in general if joe blow overhears people talk as if awesome tournament was 'rigged' and that the title is worthless. That's a pretty nasty thing to say about a very good tournament (where imo the best player won... ask him if he feels like his title was worthless and if he was rigged to get the top spot rather than having to work damn hard for it).

 

[DaveK]

I too feel that you cannot have a true "world championship" without a proper and transparent qualification process. This process could result in "invitations" being granted to players who qualify, and in that way the term "Invitational World Championship" may not be an oxymoron. But I also feel that some of these tournaments that use titles like "World Championship" and "US Open" are not really what they seem. Without a properly recognized international or national organization behind (sanctioning) these events, they are simply another pool tournament being played under a pretentious name, imo.

I also think that the sport is not served well by promoting bad or unfair tournaments. While beggars should not be choosers, let's not put pool into the beggar category yet, it's better than that.

Dave

 

[bomber]

Alright...let me throw my two cents worth in here...Pool cannot have a world championship...period. It doesnt matter how you draw it up. Hell, I dont think that their is such a thing in any sport...maybe the olympics. Until there is a unified World Governing body of pool that everyone joins, uses, and respects, then how can you have a World Championship. These posts are getting silly. Take the title World Championship for what its worth and move on. Think about it like this...How many Japanese teams play in the World Series...let me think...NONE!

When some sort of pool makes into Olympic competition, then you might be able to have a world champion or whatever. Until then, you are just spinning your wheels.

 

[bomber]

Good post Dave...we must have been writing at the same time.

 

[worldison2]

Think about it like this...How many Japanese teams play in the World Series...let me think...NONE!

Good point bomber....At the last Miss Universe contest I was pulling for Miss Alpha-Centauri, but she was a no-show.

 

[bomber]

Thats funny stuff right there worldison2...ill even give you some rep for that one.

 

[dimes33]

why not

Alright...let me throw my two cents worth in here...Pool cannot have a world championship...period. It doesnt matter how you draw it up. Hell, I dont think that their is such a thing in any sport...maybe the olympics. Until there is a unified World Governing body of pool that everyone joins, uses, and respects, then how can you have a World Championship. These posts are getting silly. Take the title World Championship for what its worth and move on. Think about it like this...How many Japanese teams play in the World Series...let me think...NONE!

When some sort of pool makes into Olympic competition, then you might be able to have a world champion or whatever. Until then, you are just spinning your wheels.

if someone says they are putting on,say an open one pocket event and also ran qualifiers and called it the "world championship", you wouldnt recognize the winner as the world champ? all you have to do either qualify or show up and pay the entry,i dont understand how we couldnt say the winner wasnt the world champion.just my thoughts.

 

[bomber]

Because, we could have another one a week later and do the same thing. Seems silly to me. Hell, I think I will have the Aaron "Bomber" Owens world championships held here in Louisville. It is open to anyone who wants to play. No entry fee and no prizes. Every one in the world is invited to play. The person who wins will be my world champion.

Even better...lets have qualifiers for it...Everyone in the world come to Lousiville and pay 100 dollars a person to qualify. The top 10 qualify for the tournament. We will play a race to one bar box 8 ball. The winner will be the World Champion. They will get a little trophy and 500 bucks. LOL

My point is...there are too many World Championships and too many organizations to have a World Champion...its kinda like boxing...who really is the heavyweight champion...well, it depends on who you ask.

I understand your point Dimes...i just look at it differently. I am a tough critic...a big problem of mine! LOL

 

[td873]

To win a "world championship" that has been rigged to exclude highly competitive players is to achieve a worthless title. And everyone will know it.

I've heard of those contests ->
Super Bowl = football world champions, but only US teams play
World Series = baseball world champions, again only US teams play (yeah, I left out Canada on purpose )

At least basketball changed their name to NBA finals from World Championship Series...

-td

 

[dimes33]

too many chiefs and not enough indians,i hear you and i agree! i just meant that it can happen and most likely will very soon.i just think about how to make it happen rather just blow it off and dismiss it.

 

[bomber]

Props to you dimes for positive thinking...it never hurts...i hope that you are right...but I have a bad feeling that you are wrong. I sure am rooting for your side though.

 

[NYC cue dude]

ah, but there is a world governing body, its called the wpa. All the subordinate governing bodies of pool, ie, the bca, upa, and others, recognize this. So, the only way there can be an "official" world championship pool event, it MUST be sanctioned by the wpa.

Now, someone said that there are too many WC events. Really? Which ones? I know of only 3. The WPC, The world 8 ball championships held in Dubai, and the world straight pool championships. Btw, NONE OF THESE EVENTS ARE OPEN. And ALL OF THESE EVENTS ARE WPA SANCTIONED.

Also, historically, ALL of the world straight pool championships were always invitational, ONLY with fields of 8 players.

So, for all of you who don't think these are real world championships, the wpa says they are. That's all that matters.

Rg

 

[dimes33]

ah, but there is a world governing body, its called the wpa. All the subordinate governing bodies of pool, ie, the bca, upa, and others, recognize this. So, the only way there can be an "official" world championship pool event, it MUST be sanctioned by the wpa.

Now, someone said that there are too many WC events. Really? Which ones? I know of only 3. The WPC, The world 8 ball championships held in Dubai, and the world straight pool championships. Btw, NONE OF THESE EVENTS ARE OPEN. And ALL OF THESE EVENTS ARE WPA SANCTIONED.

Also, historically, ALL of the world straight pool championships were always invitational, ONLY with fields of 8 players.

So, for all of you who don't think these are real world championships, the wpa says they are. That's all that matters.

Rg

yep thats all that matters,nevermind what the players and pool fans want.i mean who are they anyway?

 

[NYC cue dude]

I don't think the fans of any other sport in the world has even a little bit to say when it comes to the policies and operations of that particular sport. Why should pool be any different.

As far as the players are concerned, they have a history of not being able to soldify under one association or union. Even when its been hand delivered to them on a silver platter. Why, because the players themselves put themself before the sport. Don't believe me, ask blackjack or jay.

Rg

 

[dimes33]

I don't think the fans of any other sport in the world has even a little bit to say when it comes to the policies and operations of that particular sport. Why should pool be any different.

As far as the players are concerned, they have a history of not being able to soldify under one association or union. Even when its been hand delivered to them on a silver platter. Why, because the players themselves put themself before the sport. Don't believe me, ask blackjack or jay.

Rg

um really? let the nfl pick what teams play or dont play this year and watch what happens! there is a reason all the players wont play under one flag,you know why,i do we all do and you come off as if YOU are bigger than the sport of pool randy.this can go on for forever or until somebody steps up to make it better and i got a good feeling there is about to be a new sheriff in the pool town

 

[NYC cue dude]

um, the NFL does choose. You and 31 friends can't show up with helmets on Sunday and ask "where do we play".

As far as me, you don't know ANYTHING about me. Don't start that nonsense that i come off bigger than the sport. Truth is, I don't really careuch for the "sport". I love the game. I am close with some players. That's the ONLY reason i am involved at all. Furthermore, EVERY OTHER PROMOTER in the world wants to profit from their events, EXCEPT ME. All the money i give is DONATED.

New sherrif, cool. As long asy best friend takes his money, i couldnt care less. Lmao

Rg

 

[Bob Jewett]

Alright...let me throw my two cents worth in here...Pool cannot have a world championship...period. It doesnt matter how you draw it up. Hell, I dont think that their is such a thing in any sport...maybe the olympics. Until there is a unified World Governing body of pool that everyone joins, uses, and respects, then how can you have a World Championship. ...

Each year, the WPA conducts a World Championship in 9 Ball. Each region (and each country within the regions) sends its best players to the event. This has been in place since about 1992. I think that anyone who has followed those championships would agree that they really are the World 9-Ball Championships. There is no other tournament claiming that title.

The WPA is recognized by the International Olympic Committee (through the WCBS) as the world governing body for pool.

The WPA also began World Championships in eight ball a few years ago after a sponsor stepped forward. Last year the WPA Straight Pool Championships started largely due to a generous sponsor.

The US has never been big on recognizing world governing bodies or doing legitimate world championships. Take, for example, baseball. Or boxing. In the case of one pocket, I recall a so-called "World Championship" that was set up by two players and a lot of hype. Was the winner a "world champion?" Of course not.

Now there is a legitimate organization for international pool competitions. It makes me sad that there are so many in the US that are both totally ignorant about how it works and are unwilling to support it. I think that attitude is part of the reason that the US has dropped into second-rank status in pool.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Furthermore, EVERY OTHER PROMOTER in the world wants to profit from their events, EXCEPT ME. ...

That statement is false.

 

[NYC cue dude]

Finally, a post with real info. Bravo Bob.

Lets not forget the operative word here is ignorant. (using the strict dictionary definition of course)

Rg