Pace of Play

Island Drive

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
Traditional Flo Charts Don't help the room owners, the players and the competitive game itself.
A team event in IA finished well past 3am.
Very few if any room owners LIKE every table being completely tied up, and very few players enjoy playing into the next day Sunday and then have to play again after a nap the same day. Golf is realizing speeding up play is important as many other pro games feel the same.
We know there are opinions on both sides, but what's the benefit to players/game of any sport being up for a match 12-14 hrs?
 
Island Drive said:
Traditional Flo Charts Don't help the room owners, the players and the competitive game itself.
A team event in IA finished well past 3am.
Very few if any room owners LIKE every table being completely tied up, and very few players enjoy playing into the next day Sunday and then have to play again after a nap the same day. Golf is realizing speeding up play is important as many other pro games feel the same.
We know there are opinions on both sides, but what's the benefit to players/game of any sport being up for a match 12-14 hrs?
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That's normal for poker every damn day during the World Series.

And the breaks you get are never long enough due to the massive amount of people
 
Baseball has added the pitch clock and has limited the number of throws a pitcher can make to hold a baserunner on. These changes have made a big difference and have made the game much more entertaining.

Pool is on the opposite trajectory, and slow play is a bigger problem at the pro level than it ever has been. Managing the game's entertainment value does not seem to be terribly important to either pro players or event producers. To be fair, Mike Zuglan's Joss Tour has long been the exception. Mike gets in the face of players that play slowly, and habitually slow players can have a hard time signing up for events like Turning Stone that routinely fill the field.

Sad to say it but slow play in pool, at this point, almost qualifies as a tradition. Amateurs watching the pros surely note how slowly most of the pros play and I'm sure many of them either copy it or use it to justify, or at least rationalize, their own lethargic pace of play.
 
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Local tournaments should ALL be single elimination, luck counts, 9 ball. That's a fast game, and fast format. It also leaves open tables much earlier for regular paying customers. It also promotes action as eliminated player have time and tables to match up.

8 ball should be banned. Takes forever. Double elimination, especially TRUE double elimination, takes forever (for any game).

The priority of the TD IMO is a reasonable end time to the event.
 
One of the reasons i don't play tournaments like that anymore. I played in a APA league once and i think they were susposed to be done at 10pm. I finished my matches about 9:30pm and there was still a few to go.
 
Zerksies said:
One of the reasons i don't play tournaments like that anymore. I played in a APA league once and i think they were susposed to be done at 10pm. I finished my matches about 9:30pm and there was still a few to go.
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I agree. I love league play, but the tournaments run by my local league seem to never start on time, then run on into the late night or early morning. Not for me!
 
Make speeding up a priority. Institute shot clocks at every level on every table at every venue, including league and even casual play. It's 2026, for God's sake. With a little thought the technology could cost almost nothing and be run by AI.

Make it fun. Make Earl the ambassador of timely play.
 
dont play if the t.d. doesn't have the balls to keep things moving doing whatever it takes.

if enough players stop playing or complain and stop they will fix it. a broken wheel never gets fixed if it isnt turning.

all it takes is to tell all players that they need to get out of the chair and shoot. if they stall at all they will be punished with loss of turn or match.
and all slow players wont be invited back. that right there solves most of the problems.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Local tournaments should ALL be single elimination, luck counts, 9 ball. ...
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That will end in about half the time as DE. Sometimes even faster than that. If people demand at least two matches, have a consolation tourney for the first round losers, if there are plenty of tables.

With SE, you could add a game or two to the match length and still finish much earlier.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Local tournaments should ALL be single elimination, luck counts, 9 ball. That's a fast game, and fast format. It also leaves open tables much earlier for regular paying customers. It also promotes action as eliminated player have time and tables to match up.

8 ball should be banned. Takes forever. Double elimination, especially TRUE double elimination, takes forever (for any game).

The priority of the TD IMO is a reasonable end time to the event.
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Or the tournament could be completely mapped out before it even starts. CSI does a pretty darn good job of just that. A match starts at a certain time & it ends at a certain time. Keeps the ball rolling. Players do not have to be hanging around the tournament either just in case their match starts early. Just show up at the stated start time.
 
Fore Rail said:
Or the tournament could be completely mapped out before it even starts. CSI does a pretty darn good job of just that. A match starts at a certain time & it ends at a certain time. Keeps the ball rolling. Players do not have to be hanging around the tournament either just in case their match starts early. Just show up at the stated start time.
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Big national events across several days with a pre-populated player's list can schedule matches in advance every 2 hours. Local weeknight events that are walk-ins operate on a different model. The second a match finishes, the next one is scheduled.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Big national events across several days with a pre-populated player's list can schedule matches in advance every 2 hours. Local weeknight events that are walk-ins operate on a different model. The second a match finishes, the next one is scheduled.
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It can be done on a every Saturday night event at as well once you know the total number of players. With that information one can quickly figure out the number of matches that it will take to finish the tournament. Reasonable time it takes to play a race to 3, 2 whatever is easily figured as well. With just a little paying attention to the details any tournament can basically be played in advance.
 
Fore Rail said:
It can be done on a every Saturday night event at as well once you know the total number of players. With that information one can quickly figure out the number of matches that it will take to finish the tournament. Reasonable time it takes to play a race to 3, 2 whatever is easily figured as well. With just a little paying attention to the details any tournament can basically be played in advance.
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Instead we often see the finalists split the pot at 2AM. Somehow the players think running into the dawn is OK. I guess for the players who go home at 10PM, it is. They got to play for a while and see some good players, and they get to bed at a reasonable hour.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Instead we often see the finalists split the pot at 2AM. Somehow the players think running into the dawn is OK. I guess for the players who go home at 10PM, it is. They got to play for a while and see some good players, and they get to bed at a reasonable hour.
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Well Bob that certainly happens when the TD doesn't get everyone going until 8 PM & then let's everyone disappear for smoke breaks.
 
Even if you start at 8pm on the nose with the first break, there are simply too many players compared to tables on a weekly type event. It's the DCC problem at the local room. I'd even argue most local TD's do a better job than the DCC, because a match is called the second a table is available. Scheduling matches in advance at a local level would make the tournaments longer, not shorter. On a pro event level, scheduled matches are awesome because it gives the players time to prepare and rest.

It's a format issue. The TD needs to recognize "I have X tables, I have X hours to run this, and I anticipate X players". (and he needs a provision to adjust things if more players show up). The root issue is most TD's don't adjust the format based on the past 5 week's tournaments worth of "learning" to accommodate their room specifics.

Double elimination on a weeknight only works if its races to 3 and races to 2 MAX in about any room. Yet TD's try to do Fargo R5 races, which often results in 8-3 races that take forever. Or play that stupid game 8 ball that has players bunt the balls to block their pockets.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Instead we often see the finalists split the pot at 2AM. Somehow the players think running into the dawn is OK. I guess for the players who go home at 10PM, it is. They got to play for a while and see some good players, and they get to bed at a reasonable hour.
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I stopped going to my local friday night for that reason. It would end at 3am WITH a chop. I'd rather just go hang out and shoot the shit and play a few cheap action sets.

Yeah, the players that go 2 and out get their fun in. But anyone advancing is just frustrated. We often have the hot seat winner simply go home and take second rather than wait for the loser's side to catch up.
 
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