Pay Outs?

[GARY LLOYD]

Why do so many events do this to players? Just read the pay outs for the pro event in Valley Forge and it amazes me that the promoters feel it is better to have a big number to advertise for first place. Even at the expense of second place and the rest of the field. $20,000.00 to the winner and $7,000.00 to second. Hatch finishes fourth in a $35,000.00 added pro event with 70+ players and gets $3,000.00 for fourth place... Wow!

Don't get me wrong... The event is a great long running event and is run very efficiently. One of the best in the US. This is about the pay out structure used in many events not about this event in particular. I have seen it in the pay outs of many events overseas also.

I am a believer in spreading the wealth in tournament pay outs. If a player pays $500.00 entry fee then to me $10,000.00 is a good return on an entry fee. I mean 20 to 1 isn't anything to sneeze at. Pay a few more spots and increase the amounts per spot. Let everyone benefit from the added monies. With $35,000.00 added to the event, $20,000.00 of that went to first place (proportionately...I realize some came from the entry fees).

To me the big differences between first and second places is just too much. Granted this is just my opinion and view point on this topic. Looking for other opinions on this topic from all of you.

 

[JAM]

Why do so many events do this to players? Just read the pay outs for the pro event in Valley Forge and it amazes me that the promoters feel it is better to have a big number to advertise for first place. Even at the expense of second place and the rest of the field. $20,000.00 to the winner and $7,000.00 to second. Hatch finishes fourth in a $35,000.00 added pro event with 70+ players and gets $3,000.00 for fourth place... Wow!

Don't get me wrong... The event is a great long running event and is run very efficiently. One of the best in the US. This is about the pay out structure used in many events not about this event in particular. I have seen it in the pay outs of many events overseas also.

I am a believer in spreading the wealth in tournament pay outs. If a player pays $500.00 entry fee then to me $10,000.00 is a good return on an entry fee. I mean 20 to 1 isn't anything to sneeze at. Pay a few more spots and increase the amounts per spot. Let everyone benefit from the added monies. With $35,000.00 added to the event, $20,000.00 of that went to first place (proportionately...I realize some came from the entry fees).

To me the big differences between first and second places is just too much. Granted this is just my opinion and view point on this topic. Looking for other opinions on this topic from all of you.

Some -- not all -- tournaments do elevate the first prize payout. I guess it's supposed to give all the competitors the gold ring to reach for, so to speak. Mike Zuglan's Joss Northeast 9-Ball tour payouts elevate the second place payouts a little higher than some regional tours, which is always nice when you're the runner-up. :wink:

At the 1985 BC Open, Mike Lebron was upset at his second-place payout when he pocketed a mere $10,000 to the first-place winner's $25,000. I spoke to him 20 years later, and he still had a sour taste in his mouth about that tournament.

On the one hand, at least Dennis Hatch, I hope, breaks even for this event, unlike those who came in fifth place on down. Sadly, you usually have to win, place, or show to break even in pool tournaments these days.

One thing I must say about Allen Hopkins' SBE tournaments is that he has *the* best trophies. They are beautiful, large, and exquisite. I know he spends a pretty penny on these pool keepsakes.

I am reminded of two players who made the finals at an SBE Pro/Am tournament. Right before the finals, the two of them were outside smoking. One player was looking forward to winning the cheese, and the other one was more interested in winning that trophey. That is how beautiful the trophies are at SBE. See if you can guess who wanted -- and won -- both the beautiful trophey and the cheese at the SBE Pro/Am as depicted in the photo below.

 

[JAM]

...At the 1985 BC Open, Mike Lebron was upset at his second-place payout when he pocketed a mere $10,000 to the first-place winner's $25,000. I spoke to him 20 years later, and he still had a sour taste in his mouth about that tournament. ....

Here's the Accu-Status report of the 1985 BC Open below. Check out the payouts.

Some tournaments do like to elevate that first prize. It is not always the case, though.

 

[12310bch]

That's big time for 1985. Any video produced?

 

[JAM]

That's big time for 1985. Any video produced?

I'm not sure. There wasn't much video coverage in 1985, unfortunately.

Here's a picture of the winner accepting the cheese. :grin-square:

At this pool tournament, there was also a pro golf tournament happening simultaneously. After the pool tournament concluded, there was a huge party in the ballroom, and Keith told everybody that drinks were on him. The bar tab was four figures, but he wanted to share his joy of winning with all those in attendance, to include the pro golfers, some of whom were also Keith's friends from California. That Keith sure did get around. He knew pro golfers, famous horse jockeys, and movie stars.

Keith was staked for this tournament and wouldn't have been able to have this opportunity to win if it wasn't for Jay Helfert's financial backing.

 

[richiebalto]

I'm not sure. There wasn't much video coverage in 1985, unfortunately.

Here's a picture of the winner accepting the cheese. :grin-square:

At this pool tournament, there was also a pro golf tournament happening simultaneously. After the pool tournament concluded, there was a huge party in the ballroom, and Keith told everybody that drinks were on him. The bar tab was four figures, but he wanted to share his joy of winning with all those in attendance, to include the pro golfers, some of whom were also Keith's friends from California. That Keith sure did get around. He knew pro golfers, famous horse jockeys, and movie stars.

Keith was staked for this tournament and wouldn't have been able to have this opportunity to win if it wasn't for Jay Helfert's financial backing.

Jay knew what he had,a great investment!

 

[Mr Hoppe]

Sadly, you usually have to win, place, or show to break even in pool tournaments these days.

The industry cannot grow if only 3 pros can make a living at it. I thought it was pretty standard to have 1st be twice the payout of 2nd place. 3x is too much.

 

[bradsh98]

Keep in mind it is ONLY a 64 player bracket and they do pay back MORE than 25% of the field. I'd say the payout structure isn't too bad.. Sure, it's a big drop from first to second, but I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. With such a small bracket, you have to believe that everyone going there strongly believes that they have a chance of winning the event. Even if you take 2nd, you're still making slightly less than what you'd make for winning the Turning Stone event, and you don't have to play as many matches to get there. Sure you have to put up a slight amount more for an entry fee, but so what? Win just 2 matches and you get it all back. How many tournaments can promise you that?

 

[GARY LLOYD]

Keep in mind it is ONLY a 64 player bracket and they do pay back MORE than 25% of the field. I'd say the payout structure isn't too bad.. Sure, it's a big drop from first to second, but I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. With such a small bracket, you have to believe that everyone going there strongly believes that they have a chance of winning the event. Even if you take 2nd, you're still making slightly less than what you'd make for winning the Turning Stone event, and you don't have to play as many matches to get there. Sure you have to put up a slight amount more for an entry fee, but so what? Win just 2 matches and you get it all back. How many tournaments can promise you that?

Like I said, please don't get me wrong, great event and great payouts... Just too big of spread for my liking. Geoff two thumbs up on that avatar Sir!

 

[oldzilla]

Why do so many events do this to players? Just read the pay outs for the pro event in Valley Forge and it amazes me that the promoters feel it is better to have a big number to advertise for first place. Even at the expense of second place and the rest of the field. $20,000.00 to the winner and $7,000.00 to second. Hatch finishes fourth in a $35,000.00 added pro event with 70+ players and gets $3,000.00 for fourth place... Wow!

Don't get me wrong... The event is a great long running event and is run very efficiently. One of the best in the US. This is about the pay out structure used in many events not about this event in particular. I have seen it in the pay outs of many events overseas also.

I am a believer in spreading the wealth in tournament pay outs. If a player pays $500.00 entry fee then to me $10,000.00 is a good return on an entry fee. I mean 20 to 1 isn't anything to sneeze at. Pay a few more spots and increase the amounts per spot. Let everyone benefit from the added monies. With $35,000.00 added to the event, $20,000.00 of that went to first place (proportionately...I realize some came from the entry fees).

To me the big differences between first and second places is just too much. Granted this is just my opinion and view point on this topic. Looking for other opinions on this topic from all of you.

Gary, whats a nice guy like you doing in a place like this bringing up a subject that is fraught with peril !?

 

[dardusm]

Here's the Accu-Status report of the 1985 BC Open below. Check out the payouts.

Some tournaments do like to elevate that first prize. It is not always the case, though.

What's interesting to me is that Irving Crane played in this tournament at age 72. Pretty cool, although he didn't fare too well.

 

[TheBook]

How about doing it like NASCAR. Everyone gets paid more than their entry fee. Look at the payouts and sometimes the last place finisher gets paid more than some of those that finished higher.

Wouldn't that be great?

 

[DennyS]

How about doing it like NASCAR. Everyone gets paid more than their entry fee. Look at the payouts and sometimes the last place finisher gets paid more than some of those that finished higher.

Wouldn't that be great?

Yes That would be great, only if we had the sponsors and spectators they do!

 

[coop19772002]

I am reminded of two players who made the finals at an SBE Pro/Am tournament. Right before the finals, the two of them were outside smoking. One player was looking forward to winning the cheese, and the other one was more interested in winning that trophey. That is how beautiful the trophies are at SBE. See if you can guess who wanted -- and won -- both the beautiful trophey and the cheese at the SBE Pro/Am as depicted in the photo below.

I remember this like it was yesterday! We had such a great time at that event! Those were some good times and memories. We miss you guys so much!! This is one of my favorite pics and when these two get together it's always a good time!

 

[JAM]

I remember this like it was yesterday! We had such a great time at that event! Those were some good times and memories. We miss you guys so much!! This is one of my favorite pics and when these two get together it's always a good time!

Shannon really loved that trophey. It sure is beautiful. Hope you-all are doing well, Marge

Did you watch "Justified" yet? Does Shannon like it? I love that show. I think it's my fave now.