People who use ghost ball aiming.

[JoeyA]

JoeyA:

*Fingerplonk-on-Joey's-forehead*

Dr. Dave's video, while helpful for the absolute beginner, is not helpful for any seasoned pool player that already has an idea of how to "cut" balls into a pocket (or at least send them in the general direction).

Reason: trying to envision a spot on the cloth to aim it is fraught with error. While envision an imaginary ball right next to the object ball is easily done, and then the subsequent step of aiming dead-center on that imaginary ball is also easily done, trying to envision where that ball touches the cloth introduces needless error. Here's why -- you already have your "solution" of aiming dead-center at the imaginary ball. You see the outline of the ball, and it's an easy matter to put your crosshairs at "center mass." Why are you adding the extra step of trying to envision the exact contact point on the cloth? Joey, I'm assuming you're experienced with firearms, yes? If so, are you capable of shooting a dead-center heart shot on a silhouette target without any sort of "exact center" marker, or do you need a "+" marker in the exact center of the silhouette to show you where dead-center is?

In the previous post #49, I explain how I often (now, quite frequently) let the "mole" just vanish from my sight, after I've lined-up and gotten down on the shot. What's left, after the mole vanishes, is just the cue ball and the back of the object ball, already "eclipsed" by the amount I need. And -- gasp! -- many times I don't need to envision the ghostball at all. Many shots have already been added to my "catalog of shots" in my subconscious, and I just get down on the shot and "see" the solution automatically -- the amount of the object ball I need to "eclipse" with the cue ball to make the shot, without ever envisioning the ghostball. Yes, I skipped a step there, but I don't need it anymore for that "cataloged" shot.

Hope that helps explain it,
-Sean

What you explained is that you DO NOT USE GHOST BALL AIMING. I had always wondered how a guy that shoots as well as you do can aim at the center of a ghost ball and run scores of balls without missing.

I'm glad you elaborated but if you say you use ghost ball aiming one more time in any post, I will personally set up a new thread similar to: "sfleinen, should he go or should he stay?" :winknudge:

 

[sfleinen]

What you explained is that you DO NOT USE GHOST BALL AIMING. I had always wondered how a guy that shoots as well as you do can aim at the center of a ghost ball and run scores of balls without missing.

I'm glad you elaborated but if you say you use ghost ball aiming one more time in any post, I will personally set up a new thread similar to: "sfleinen, should he go or should he stay?" :winknudge:

Joey:

Come on, man! You're sticking words in my mouth now. I never said "I don't use ghost ball aiming." Where do you get this stuff? What I did say -- or rather clarified -- is *how* I use ghostball aiming. And yes, to me, back-of-ball aiming is a variation of ghostball -- I just bypass the ghostball "visualization step" on some shots.

On shots I'm unsure of (i.e. they're not an "automatic catalog lookup" of shots committed to memory), do I view a properly-placed ghostball and aim dead-center in its face? You bet! Are those the lion's share of my shots these days? Sorry Joey, but no.

I thought I made this clear?

Methinks a certain someone-someone's feelings are hurt because I happened to call-to-the-carpet a certain someone else, in another thread, for blatantly unethical sales pitches and techniques (not the least of which was plagiarism) of a "perfect" aiming system? <...insert Yoda-esque "Hrmmm?" sound here...>

And what does that "should-Coco-stay-or-go" thread have to do with me? I steered clear of that one, because it's a ridiculous thread. I fret over some of the outrageous things folks post, but hey, that's just me. If you have a problem with me, Joey, put me on ignore. Easy fix. And that's what I recommend to anyone that don't like the contributions of others.

These aiming system threads are really ridiculous as well. I can't believe the amount of brain cycles people are spending on this topic -- and especially the advocacy/arguing part. Crikey, with the amount of time spent on this topic arguing alone, you'd think that if they spent that time productively on the table, their game would -- gasp! -- actually get better, instead of pontificating about it?

Think about it.
-Sean

P.S.: that pontificating thing wasn't targeted at you, Joey. It's just an in-general observation. I tried to help in this thread with what I thought was good input and insight, and instead I'm starting to feel like I'm standing on an anthill, with fire ants crawling up my legs, biting and stinging. Time to abandon this thread.

 

[JoeyA]

Joey:

Come on, man! You're sticking words in my mouth now. I never said "I don't use ghost ball aiming." Where do you get this stuff? What I did say -- or rather clarified -- is *how* I use ghostball aiming. And yes, to me, back-of-ball aiming is a variation of ghostball -- I just bypass the ghostball "visualization step" on some shots.

On shots I'm unsure of (i.e. they're not an "automatic catalog lookup" of shots committed to memory), do I view a properly-placed ghostball and aim dead-center in its face? You bet! Are those the lion's share of my shots these days? Sorry Joey, but no.

I thought I made this clear?

Methinks a certain someone-someone's feelings are hurt because I happened to call-to-the-carpet a certain someone else, in another thread, for blatantly unethical sales pitches and techniques (not the least of which was plagiarism) of a "perfect" aiming system? <...insert Yoda-esque "Hrmmm?" sound here...>

And what does that "should-Coco-stay-or-go" thread have to do with me? I steered clear of that one, because it's a ridiculous thread. I fret over some of the outrageous things folks post, but hey, that's just me. If you have a problem with me, Joey, put me on ignore. Easy fix. And that's what I recommend to anyone that don't like the contributions of others.

These aiming system threads are really ridiculous as well. I can't believe the amount of brain cycles people are spending on this topic -- and especially the advocacy/arguing part. Crikey, with the amount of time spent on this topic arguing alone, you'd think that if they spent that time productively on the table, their game would -- gasp! -- actually get better, instead of pontificating about it?

Think about it.
-Sean

P.S.: that pontificating thing wasn't targeted at you, Joey. It's just an in-general observation. I tried to help in this thread with what I thought was good input and insight, and instead I'm starting to feel like I'm standing on an anthill, with fire ants crawling up my legs, biting and stinging. Time to abandon this thread.

Hey buddy. You're my friend. When you criticize anything I say or do, I listen and consider. I don't take offense. I know you are either making an effort to get your point across or trying to help out a pal. Either way, no offense taken.

It's just that your mention of ghost ball aiming has stuck in my mind for months and I mean months. All I could imagine was Dr Dave's website's diagram showing aiming at the center of the ghostball and wonder how you could aim at that center of the ghost ball that you "could see just as plain as day" and still run lots of balls. I've tried everything and aiming at that spot where the base of the ghost ball sits just doesn't get it for me. :grin:

I didn't mean to be a red ant. I just couldn't imagine in my mind how you could be aiming at that dot on the table where the base of the ghost ball sits and run out on a regular basis. (I'm just relieved to understand how you do aim and that it's not at that base or center of the object ball). It's funny how something can stick in your head. I'm out of here.uttahere:

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Ghost Ball works if you factor in thing like "Friction Induced Throw", and other factors! JMHO!

 

[JoeyInCali]

Ghost Ball works if you factor in thing like "Friction Induced Throw", and other factors! JMHO!

NOTHING works if you don't factor them.

 

[pdcue]

Whether we call it overlap, back of the ball or whatever we all fractionally aim whether we know it or not.

When you stand in back of the shot in your preshot routine if you have one, you are already deciding how much of that OB you are going to hit. You might picture a ghost ball to help you visualize the amount but we are all fractionally aiming one way or another.

This is the way the eyes visualize the shot. Whether you are guessing or you know exactly how much you are hitting it is what it is.

They are all giving you a mental measurement of how much of the CB is going to hit the OB.

No matter how you shake or bake it we have fractional aiming.

This is just plain incorrect.

We do not ALL fractionally aim.

I realize you are a very good player, but you really don't understand
about this subject.

Dale<who thinks he is special, but definitely not unique>

 

[AtLarge]

My GF uses GB aiming. The way she was taught was to stand behind the object ball and use her cue to to aim the ob into the pocket while holding the tip around 1 1/14 away from the edge of the ball (roughly 2 finger widths). ...

You probably mean 1 1/8", i.e., half the diameter of a 2 1/4" ball.

 

[luckwouldhaveit]

Only rank amatuers have to walk over to the object ball to view the path. I have to burst out laughing to myself everytime I see someone do this. And especially if they claim to be a ghostballer.

Uh I actually do that. I don't consider myself "above" doing so. Go ahead and laugh I guess

 

[Luxury]

Betmore was right. Johnny Archer does that walk around a lot. In a lesson with him he said, "I walk over and point at the spot on the ball then as I walk back I never take my eyes off that spot. I don't blink. I'm STALKING that object ball."

I loved it and use it on tough critical shots that aren't automatic for me.

 

[PocketPoint]

Do you need to know which eye is dominant to use ghost ball?

 

[dogassokie]

ghost ball

i'm 66 and have been using the ghost ball since i started on the advice of jimmy taylor, whom i met at the johnson city, il world pool all-around championship. you have to pick, and commit, to a spot regardless, no matter what your style is. and as far as being less accurate at longer distances, even buddy is less accurate on longer shoots.

 

[Maniac]

I am a self-taught player, 58 years old (almost). From my teenage years I was always a good shotmaker. Now that I'm older, wiser, and more knowledgable, I am also in poor shape physically, which lends itself to a wobbly stroke and paired with bad eyesight/depth perception makes for less than desirable shooting. But I will say this without any reservation: I do not know what "system" I use when I aim, but after many years of shooting balls into pockets, I can walk around the table towards my next shot and KNOW where to strike the OB with the CB before I ever get all the way to the shot. It is just on "auto-pilot" in my brain. I don't have to think about nothing in the aiming process. It is just "there". All I need to focus on is delivering the cueball to the point my brain "pre-figured" the contact point is on the OB with a SMOOTH, CLEAN, REPEATABLE stroke.

Come on, how many of you have just thrown 10 or 12 balls out on a table and had the table cleared in about 30 seconds? And you were using WHAT aiming system when you did this? "Auto-pilot" more than likely!!!

Maniac

 

[okinawa77]

I visualize the ghost ball, but my sighting is on the OB contact point. I visualize the contact point as 1 tip of english (not one tip which is between 12-14mm). When I say 1 tip of english, it's about the size of the circle on a red circle CB. I adjust my contact point based on the amount of english I apply on my aim on the CB. This OB contact point adjustment is a ratio of the amount of english I apply to the CB... and this ratio is not set in stone. The ratio will change depending on the playing conditions (grabby-ness of the balls & cloth traction). I only apply english when it is needed. I use stun shot aim and determine the CB path after ball collision. If that path needs to be adjusted, I will, firstly, consider using top or low english (along the verticle axis). If side english is needed, then that's what I'll use...but anytime you use english, you need to adjust your OB contact point.
I had an APA teammate that was an SL1 in 9 ball. He's been playing for years. One day I asked him how he aims, and he told me he just looks at the balls and shoots. He struggled to pocket 1 ball per 3 innings. I spent a couple of minutes showing him the ghost ball and he instantly had 3-5 ball runs per inning. I was astonished that he had been playing pool for years and had no idea how to sight/aim.

 

[JoeyInCali]

i'm 66 and have been using the ghost ball since i started on the advice of jimmy taylor, whom i met at the johnson city, il world pool all-around championship. you have to pick, and commit, to a spot regardless, no matter what your style is. and as far as being less accurate at longer distances, even buddy is less accurate on longer shoots.

tap tap tap!

 

[brulez]

i tend to use more english when shooting at the a cut shot.. i don't really use the ghost ball much. but the more of the object ball i hit the less of the cutting it will take.

 

[JoeW]

I agree with the "just look at the ball and shoot method.” Then I tried to figure out what it is I look at. Then I refined what I thought I was looking at and now I can describe how I aim and it is not Ghost Ball, which is only a place to begin.

Place an imaginary 9 inch nail through the OB to the pocket with about an inch or so sticking out the back of the OB. Now use the CB to “hammer” the OB into the pocket. The head of the nail is actually located on the ball. The part sticking out the back is a guide.

Once I figured this out I realized that in some way my mind had figured out where the front of the cue ball is going to strike the OB. So for my next adventure in aiming I spent several weeks learning to know where the front of the cue ball is located. Begin with length of the table straight in shots and watch the CB hit the OB. When the shot was mastered and I “knew” where the front of the CB was located I moved the OB slightly off line and continued in the manner until I could no longer use the center of the CB to the nine inch nail contact point. For these shots my mind has learned to compensate and shoot slightly off the center of the nine inch nail with the front of the cue ball.

Later I learned to use a little inside or outside English as needed to help the OB stay on the intended line as indicated by that nine inch nail.

Later still, I learned that using the same techniques on length of table shots when I think I have everything lined up I can find an intermediate aim point about half way to the contact point to see if my stick was being held on line.

I very much agree with Johnny Archer’s “go and see” the actual spot on the cue ball where the nine inch nail should be located. This “spot” can often be located relative to the cloth or the ball stripe, numeral location, etc. However, knowing the spot is only half the problem. I must have the nail line to know where to strike the back of the ball so it travels down that line.

It takes lots of practice to learn how to develop a feel for the process but once you have it and can verbalize what you are doing the whole thing is on auto pilot. Knowing what you are doing helps when trying to figure out what went wrong and what I need to practice to “get my stroke back” as needed.

Perhaps my description will help some other player looking for a way to pocket any shot that can be made.

No Ghost Ball, no overlap, no CTE, nothing but the nine inch nail and learning where the front or the side of the cue ball is going to strike the OB -- works for me.

 

[Maniac]

I agree with the "just look at the ball and shoot method.” Then I tried to figure out what it is I look at. Then I refined what I thought I was looking at and now I can describe how I aim and it is not Ghost Ball, which is only a place to begin.


Once I figured this out I realized that in some way my mind had figured out where the front of the cue ball is going to strike the OB.
Later I learned to use a little inside or outside English as needed to help the OB stay on the intended line as indicated by that nine inch nail.


It takes lots of practice to learn how to develop a feel for the process but once you have it and can verbalize what you are doing the whole thing is on auto pilot. Knowing what you are doing helps when trying to figure out what went wrong and what I need to practice to “get my stroke back” as needed.

Perhaps my description will help some other player looking for a way to pocket any shot that can be made.

No Ghost Ball, no overlap, no CTE, nothing but the nine inch nail and learning where the front of the cue ball is going to strike the OB -- works for me.

Your comments here are very much the same as mine in post #73. It sounds like the only difference in yours and my aiming is that I don't visualize the nail. But,,,,auto-pilot is the term that links our "system".

FTR, I on occasion walk over to see the contact point of the OB in relation to the pocket (as JA does). It is especially helpful on back-cuts.

BTW Joe, there's a Heavy Metal rock band called "Nine Inch Nails" that was pretty big some years ago. Just thought you'd find that interesting.

Good shooting my friend!!!

Maniac

 

[trob]

Only rank amatuers have to walk over to the object ball to view the path. I have to burst out laughing to myself everytime I see someone do this. And especially if they claim to be a ghostballer.

Really? Have you ever been to a pro tournament? I see them doing it all the time for tough shots. I do it sometimes just to clear my head.

 

[JoeyInCali]

No Ghost Ball, no overlap, no CTE, nothing but the nine inch nail and learning where the front or the side of the cue ball is going to strike the OB -- works for me.

Not even a " ghost disc " ?
As in an imaginary disc the diameter of a cueball 1 1/8" high ? :grin:
Imho, when you imagine a collision, you are imagining a cueball in there.

 

[JoeW]

Your comments here are very much the same as mine in post #73. It sounds like the only difference in yours and my aiming is that I don't visualize the nail. But,,,,auto-pilot is the term that links our "system".

FTR, I on occasion walk over to see the contact point of the OB in relation to the pocket (as JA does). It is especially helpful on back-cuts.

BTW Joe, there's a Heavy Metal rock band called "Nine Inch Nails" that was pretty big some years ago. Just thought you'd find that interesting.

Good shooting my friend!!!

Maniac

Actually I use a nine inch wire as Jeanette Lee recommends. But I like the name nine inch nail as named after the rock band.

Later still I learned to use Joe Tucker's method for holding the butt of the cue stick near the center line while the cue tip is offset for English to compensate for cue ball deflection. When all of these techniques are combined it seems to me that that the complicated geometry and the simple physics required for playing pool can be reduced and mastered. Then it is only a matter of training the fine moter coordination to act as needed.

Because there is so much going on in the execution of a pool shot we need to learn to simplify the process. In the simplification the brain's natural abilities need to be enhanced, not modified, and that is why shooting by "feel" is so important. However, I think that we also come to understand how our brain is working with a sufficient amount of study.

In other words, let your brain / mind handle it but learn to observe what it wants to do and then help those processes.