Perhaps she had a few too many......APA ruling

S

SharpPT

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This week a very strange thing happened during our weekly APA league match. Our player, a young lady who is a Skill Level 5 was playing her match when it came time to shoot the 8 ball.

At this point in the evening, she probably had consumed a few too many glasses of wine. Her and her friends made the startling discovery that it is cheaper to buy their wine by the bottle instead of the glass.

Anyway, she had a bank shot on the 8 ball and proceeded to line up the shot by using her cue to aim at the 8 ball....and then she proceeded to make the 8 ball in the pocket she called. Happy ending...right?

Not so fast Sparky.....of course, I'm sure you have guessed....she shot the eight ball in without the benefit of using the cue ball!! Both teams were howling with laughter and and the poor girl was very embarassed by losing the game in such a stupid manner.

I was not at the match, but heard about it later that night. I asked what the ruling was, and was told that the game was over and she lost.

Was that the correct ruling?? What about the cue ball only foul rule?
Had a foul occured? My opinion is that since her actions were intentional as opposed to accidental, the game was over.

But what if it wasn't the 8 ball? What if she did the same thing with one of her balls. Would the opponent have the option of replacing the ball to its prior position, or would she simply lose her turn? If the ball was replaced, whose turn would it be?

I don't have an APA rule book, and I'm too lazy to look it up anyway.

Please remember to drink responsibly.......:D :p
 
Hahaha funny story...

she hit the 8 ball like it was the cue ball? or she miss hit the cue ball misscue style and then hit the 8 ball with a follow threw?

About the rulling, i think it's different for different tournaments, it's either the 8 ball is spotted and the other person has ball in hand or she loses the rack for pocketing the 8 ball illegally.
 
A lot of options you have there! ;-)

seb9 said:
Hahaha funny story...

she hit the 8 ball like it was the cue ball? or she miss hit the cue ball misscue style and then hit the 8 ball with a follow threw?

About the rulling, i think it's different for different tournaments, it's either the 8 ball is spotted and the other person has ball in hand or she loses the rack for pocketing the 8 ball illegally.
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The eight if pocketed as the result of a foul is a loss! if just hit and not pocketed then It would be BIH!
 
LOL...thats great!!

Been in the APA for about 8 years now and I've never seen that one.

I'm not gonna look it up either,but the other player should have respotted the ball...even if "intentional" it was unintentional was it not?

It could go either way I guess....but I would have alllowed a spot.After i got done laughing my ass off anyway.
 
MrLucky said:
The eight if pocketed as the result of a foul is a loss! if just hit and not pocketed then It would be BIH!
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That would be the most likely ruling i agree but there are local tournaments with local rules which are different from the official rules.
 
I believe he said...

seb9 said:
That would be the most likely ruling i agree but there are local tournaments with local rules which are different from the official rules.
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APA Match!!!!! :eek:
 
Sounds like the correct call to me... she fouled (hit the 8-ball directly with her cue)... and, the important thing for the loss of game penalty, she made the 8-ball on the same shot that she fouled... that is loss of game using most rules that I know.

Had she not made the 8-ball on that shot, it would have been BIH to opponent.

Had she done the same thing on a ball from her group... imo, the correct call would have been BIH to opponent... because she hit her object ball directly with her cue.
 
MrLucky said:
APA Match!!!!! :eek:
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ump, silly me. did not even notice he said apa....

I would not think such a thing would have happened in a apa tournament....
 
cigardave said:
Sounds like the correct call to me... she fouled (hit the 8-ball directly with her cue)... and, the important thing for the loss of game penalty, she made the 8-ball on the same shot that she fouled... that is loss of game using most rules that I know.

Had she not made the 8-ball on that shot, it would have been BIH to opponent.

Had she done the same thing on a ball from her group... imo, the correct call would have been BIH to opponent... because she hit her object ball directly with her cue.
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Yes, that's true.
 
If she was intoxicated enough to make that move, and not quite smart enough to already realize that wine is cheaper by the bottle, take your camera next week - it's gonna happen again :D
 
Thunderball said:
I'm amazed NOBODY let her know she was bridging behind the 8 lol.
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They probably thought she was just lining up the shot and didn't have time to stop her when she hit it.

Did she celebrate when she made it, or did she immediately realize what she had done?
 
PKM said:
They probably thought she was just lining up the shot and didn't have time to stop her when she hit it.

Did she celebrate when she made it, or did she immediately realize what she had done?
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Oh, she was happy....until everybody started laughing.
 
Whether it be APA or BCA ... there is sort of an oddity which is overlooked. Since most leagues do not play all balls foul. Technically this would not be your standard foul call. This was complicated by the fact that the 8-ball was knocked in. But, just like any other non-legitimate movement of balls situation, the balls must be replaced. So if it was a coin-op table and she was willing to pay to retrieve the balls, surprisingly the ruling might more appropriately be to restore the balls to their original location and proceed as normal with it still being her turn at the table. Now, she may so choose to take the high road, and grant the loss, and not escalate the level of personal embarrassment any further...

I know, there are many reasons why this may not be favorable to rule this way... But overall, the ruling as stated would be more consistent with the rules.

If the opposing team had an issue with the player hitting the 8 ball like she did, then they could raise a sportsmanship violation. But in this given case, considering that most believe she clearly would not have done this in her right mind, or in no way was she trying to gain an advantage from this action, I wouldn't give much credence to the sportsmanship violation in this case. Might keep it on file... The main thing this does it prevent some other jerk from coming along and saying, if she can hit it without penalty, then I'll do it as well... In this case the sportsmanship violation could be given due credence and handled accordingly...
 
If I am understanding you

FLICKit said:
Whether it be APA or BCA ... there is sort of an oddity which is overlooked. Since most leagues do not play all balls foul. Technically this would not be your standard foul call. This was complicated by the fact that the 8-ball was knocked in. But, just like any other non-legitimate movement of balls situation, the balls must be replaced. So if it was a coin-op table and she was willing to pay to retrieve the balls, surprisingly the ruling might more appropriately be to restore the balls to their original location and proceed as normal with it still being her turn at the table. Now, she may so choose to take the high road, and grant the loss, and not escalate the level of personal embarrassment any further...

I know, there are many reasons why this may not be favorable to rule this way... But overall, the ruling as stated would be more consistent with the rules.

If the opposing team had an issue with the player hitting the 8 ball like she did, then they could raise a sportsmanship violation. But in this given case, considering that most believe she clearly would not have done this in her right mind, or in no way was she trying to gain an advantage from this action, I wouldn't give much credence to the sportsmanship violation in this case. Might keep it on file... The main thing this does it prevent some other jerk from coming along and saying, if she can hit it without penalty, then I'll do it as well... In this case the sportsmanship violation could be given due credence and handled accordingly...
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in BCA a scratched 8 ball is not a loss in game but in APA it is!!! :)
 
I don't know if you were trying to argue with me or just trying to make a separate point.

I never said anything about rules for scratching in BCA.
I said that both leagues don't play all balls fouls, instead play cue ball only fouls.

If there was any other confusion in my post, then it definitely wasn't intended... :)
 
HAHAHAHA!!!! Man, I wish I would have seen that. It's hard to even believe without seeing it! Too funny.

FLICKit said:
Whether it be APA or BCA ... there is sort of an oddity which is overlooked. Since most leagues do not play all balls foul. Technically this would not be your standard foul call. This was complicated by the fact that the 8-ball was knocked in. But, just like any other non-legitimate movement of balls situation, the balls must be replaced.
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In BCA, I would have to guess this would be a loss of game. I have no clue what the APA rules say, but in BCA, here is my reasoning...

In BCA rules it is cueball fouls only. However, when you move an object ball accidentally, your opponent has the option to move it back, or leave it where it moved to. Since it moved into the pocket, wouldn't the opponent have the option to leave it there in the pocket, IE., loss of game?

Now if this were 9-ball, my reasoning would be the same... In WPA/BCA rules, the opponent has the option of leaving it where it ended up. Since it ended up in the pocket, and an illegally pocketed 9-ball is spotted, I would think the opponent basically has the choice between moving the 9-ball back to its original location or spotting it.
 
I don't think BCA clearly states what happens if one of the moved balls, is pocketed... Clearly replacing is simple to understand what to do. Leaving the balls where they lie, adds complication and non-certainty in this situation.
 
FLICKit said:
I don't think BCA clearly states what happens if one of the moved balls, is pocketed...
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I don't think so either. Since they do not cover this special case, I would assume there is no special rule, but this is just my take on it. :)
 
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