Pic of my Simonis 860 - is this a problem?

[Dan White]

My table plays slower than any other I play on at pool halls, and my 860 looks "thicker" than any other. I always attributed that to worn cloth at pool halls. This table sat in the basement with no environmental controls for over a year while the house was redone, but it played slow even before then. Cloth is maybe 10 years old but not used anywhere near like in a pool hall.

Hard to see in the photo, but I can bunch up the cloth by pushing it. Does this prove that the cloth isn't stretched properly, or is this basically normal?

 

[Cuebuddy]

I am no expert but that cloth looks different then my 860.
I have played on loose Simonis and it was still faster then tight "napped" cloth.

 

[illusivetrout]

It's time to call the Cobra.

 

[rich337]

My table plays slower than any other I play on at pool halls, and my 860 looks "thicker" than any other. I always attributed that to worn cloth at pool halls. This table sat in the basement with no environmental controls for over a year while the house was redone, but it played slow even before then. Cloth is maybe 10 years old but not used anywhere near like in a pool hall.

Hard to see in the photo, but I can bunch up the cloth by pushing it. Does this prove that the cloth isn't stretched properly, or is this basically normal?

i think your cloth needs to be tightened i just had my cloth changed and its alot tighter then yours from what i can see in the pic but if i where you i would just change the cloth all together

 

[realkingcobra]

My table plays slower than any other I play on at pool halls, and my 860 looks "thicker" than any other. I always attributed that to worn cloth at pool halls. This table sat in the basement with no environmental controls for over a year while the house was redone, but it played slow even before then. Cloth is maybe 10 years old but not used anywhere near like in a pool hall.

Hard to see in the photo, but I can bunch up the cloth by pushing it. Does this prove that the cloth isn't stretched properly, or is this basically normal?

The cloth is loose, plain and simple...if you can cause a wrinkle in it.

 

[pt109]

My table plays slower than any other I play on at pool halls, and my 860 looks "thicker" than any other. I always attributed that to worn cloth at pool halls. This table sat in the basement with no environmental controls for over a year while the house was redone, but it played slow even before then. Cloth is maybe 10 years old but not used anywhere near like in a pool hall.

Hard to see in the photo, but I can bunch up the cloth by pushing it. Does this prove that the cloth isn't stretched properly, or is this basically normal?

I would suggest...have the cloth re-stretched.
The cloth is worth saving...it looks good.

and get a dehumidifier...and don't clean it with a damp cloth.
Moisture is the enemy of good playing conditions.

 

[Dan White]

Cobra: Not to be dumb, but I'm going to go out on a limb and assume "loose" definitely means slower, all else being equal?

pt109: Cloth is in good shape I'd say, other than some dimpling in the rack area. The only real problem is some of the slate has adjusted a little, and I've also got a few lumps of spackle or whatever they used for the joints. I have to bang the lumps down with a ball.

I bought the X-1 cloth cleaner from Simonis recently, and it seems to do the job. However, when I wipe the table down with a slightly damp cloth, I do still pick up blue residue on the cloth. I can't imagine it is damp enough to really cause a problem. There are no moisture marks after I've used the towel. I never vacuum anymore because it sucks the spackle out of the joints.

I now keep a thermometer with humidity gauge in the basement because everybody always blames the humidity for bad break outs. I always thought that was a convenient excuse for not breaking up clusters properly (straight pool) so I thought I'd measure it for awhile and see. If you're near a pro, you can complain about humidity affecting your play, but I'm not so sure it affects a B player that much. My basement is always about 65 degrees with about 58 to 63% relative humidity ALL the time. It doesn't feel damp, but maybe I'm just used to it. We keep it cold because of the wife's pets in an adjoining room.

I guess the consensus is to restretch. Thanks!

 

[zrider7]

Loose cloth.. I,ll bet your follow and draw shots are suffering a bit , with the cloth like this.

 

[Dan White]

Loose cloth.. I,ll bet your follow and draw shots are suffering a bit , with the cloth like this.

Yes, very tough under semi dirty conditions. When the balls and cloth are very clean I get plenty of action, but still nothing compared to other tables I've played on. Of course one of the places has 760 which is ridiculous for 14.1 (IMO) so I can't really compare on that one.

 

[Dartman]

Yes, very tough under semi dirty conditions. When the balls and cloth are very clean I get plenty of action, but still nothing compared to other tables I've played on. Of course one of the places has 760 which is ridiculous for 14.1 (IMO) so I can't really compare on that one.

FYI 760 is the preferred cloth for 14.1
The temp and rh measurements you posted should not be a concern.
Have an experienced mechanic restretch your cloth correctly and you'll be fine.

added - and yes, loose cloth = slow play

 

[pt109]

FYI 760 is the preferred cloth for 14.1
The temp and rh measurements you posted should not be a concern.
Have an experienced mechanic restretch your cloth correctly and you'll be fine.

added - and yes, loose cloth = slow play

I agree about Simonis 760 for straight pool...
..or Tournament 2000 by Granito

 

[stevekur1]

Looks loose to me Dan, should be able to be pulled tighter. cloth appears to be in great condition...also if it isnt pulled tight it would force the balls to run untrue !!!

good luck
-Steve

 

[matteroner]

if the bed is that loose what about the rails?

 

[KRJ]

hmmm

Cobra: Not to be dumb, but I'm going to go out on a limb and assume "loose" definitely means slower, all else being equal?

My basement is always about 65 degrees with about 58 to 63% relative humidity ALL the time. It doesn't feel damp, but maybe I'm just used to it. We keep it cold because of the wife's pets in an adjoining room.

Thanks!

58 to 63% is way too high. The normal range to healthy living and protecton of your woods (pool cues, wood pool tables, other wood products, wood flooring, etc.) should be between 30-50%. I think 50% is a little on the high end. I keep my basement at a steady 40%....

At 63% I would feel like I was swimming

 

[Dan White]

FYI 760 is the preferred cloth for 14.1

I can't see that! I play in a little 14.1 league on 760 and the tables are just ridiculous. The room owner is converting everything back to 860, I believe. Maybe his cloths are just super worn out, I don't know. The cloth (and rails) are so fast as to make short position off a rail nearly impossible.

 

[Dan White]

Steve - thanks. The table rolls pretty well, except for a couple of mild roll offs here and there.

matteroner - New rails were put on when the cloth was done. It's hard to tell if the cloth is loose on the rails, although I don't like the job they did on folding over the cloth for the side pockets. The cloth treatment, particularly on the side rails, on commercial tables always seems so much sharper and neater than on my table.

ChicagoRJ - I think it is a bit high, too, though it is relative humidity, not absolute. If I got the temperature up to a more normal temp, like 75 degrees, the RH would be lower, I'm sure. I'm expecting the RH to go down this winter as the room should get a little warmer with the heat running more. We'll see.

 

[realkingcobra]

I can't see that! I play in a little 14.1 league on 760 and the tables are just ridiculous. The room owner is converting everything back to 860, I believe. Maybe his cloths are just super worn out, I don't know. The cloth (and rails) are so fast as to make short position off a rail nearly impossible.

The speed you're talking about is not coming from the cloth, it's from the rails/cushions not being right.

 

[Dan White]

The speed you're talking about is not coming from the cloth, it's from the rails/cushions not being right.

He boasts that the rails are like 60 years old and that he keeps them in good condition. Is it possible that the rails have hardened and so the ball rebounds as if off concrete?

Cloth is still damn fast...

 

[Black-Balled]

He boasts that the rails are like 60 years old and that he keeps them in good condition. Is it possible that the rails have hardened and so the ball rebounds as if off concrete?

Cloth is still damn fast...

A ball striking something 'solid' would sing a different song...that, you would hear.

Loose cloth and incorrect cushoin height. Do not argue with the man, he does not want to have to come over there.

 

[RRR]

While you're having your cloth re-stretched, be sure to have your slate re-adjusted, and have that "spackle" replaced with some bondo.

Sounds like you need to enlist the help of a qualified table mechanic.