Please read the last post prior to this I made.
Play The Table Not The Player...NOT
- Thread starter Johnnyt
- Start date
I also have been irritated about that "play the table, not the opponent" crap. A pool hustler I knew used this to encourage his victims to do this - specifically to get them to ignore his competence.
Here is the proper general rule on making table decisions:
The table that determines the type of shot - safety, offensive, or the trickier two-way shot.
The specific shot variation that you select is based on your opponent's skills.
Put another way:
At the Strategic level, a simple decision matrix defines the shot type.
It is at the Tactical level where you select the CB/OB paths to most benefit you and impede your opponent.
Here is the proper general rule on making table decisions:
The table that determines the type of shot - safety, offensive, or the trickier two-way shot.
The specific shot variation that you select is based on your opponent's skills.
Put another way:
At the Strategic level, a simple decision matrix defines the shot type.
It is at the Tactical level where you select the CB/OB paths to most benefit you and impede your opponent.
Yeah, I'll happily play all the guys that are going to leave me banks because I don't bank well, instead of playing strong safeties or running out. By all means, give me opportunities you don't have to give me because I have "strengths and weaknesses". LOL.
However, I can provide your example, and that example is the pushout. If I'm figuring out where to push, I absolutely do want to know how good the guy is with the jump cue, how likely he is to fire at a bank vs. playing a tough safe, how well he shoots at tough cuts off the end rail, etc. On the pushout, you do sometimes play the opponent rather than the table.
-Andrew
There is no "other player" in the game of pool. There is no opponent. It has to do with our mind. It is a mind trap. If you fall in this trap you will not be able to perform well. When you are at the table the other player can't do anything. No matter if he is the worst player in the world or Efren, Svb, Darren, Mika, Django, etc...... It's all in your hands. And this kind of thinking requires a lot of mental practice. Hardest thing to achieve in my opinion.But it could make a huge difference.
OK guy's, you play the table and I'll continue to play the player. And of course know to take what the table gives me...but that's not what play the table don't play the player means. But everyone can voice their opinion.Johnnyt
Since I play in a handicap league, I always play the player.
Now if I'm playing a player that is too good, I play to run out every rack.
This way, whoever runs the most racks will win.
For real?
Lemme get this straight. You missed "on purpose" and left them a shot you know they'll make.
Because you're counting on them to fail to draw the ball.
Then you're counting on this lack of draw to cause them to get hooked.
Then you're counting on them to kick and whiff it entirely.
All of this elaborate planning to set up a possible whiffed kick.
Please explain to me why you don't just play safe on the first shot??
Especially since your intentional safe will be far more effective than their accidental safe,
which may not even happen?
What you described isn't playing the table or the player, that's just fooling around against a C player
who can't draw his rock. "I am mistress cleo. I will predict what will happen 2 shots from now!"
Why are your only options taking a risky/50% shot, or a weak safe?
Is playing a strong safe "off the table" for some reason?
What will do if you're playing Shane, and weak safes and bad shots are not gonna cut it?
Or, let me rephrase... why would a shot that works against Shane, not work against a weak player?
I play more aggressively against a far better player. I know I am not going to win most safety battles against a pro, so if I have a touchy runout I'm more likely to go for it. However if I'm playing the same touchy layout against someone around my own speed (especially someone who doesn't kick great), I'm more likely to play safe.
This situation dictated I needed bal in hand to get into a 2 ball cluster. Sure, I could have played safe on the ball I left my opponent, but I would have got ball in hand on the wrong ball. Position would not have been easy, even if I got ball in hand on the ball I left. True that the player was around a C standard, so had far more weaknesses to exploit compared to my normal opponents level. It happened that deep screw was one of his weaknesses, and I chose to exploit it. I wouldn't have done this if I had doubt about what the player would do. If I for a split second thought he would, not only play safe, but have the skill to really F me over with a safe, I'd play safe. I knew he'd take it on, and he did. It played out how I thought it would and I won the game because of it.
So yes, I am 100% for real.
I agree with this. I think it's important to acknowledge a few things here. "Play the table not the player" is not a complete statement. There are a plethora of situations where you are faced with only low percentage options and you have to choose which one will work-out best. Defensive options inherently factor-in your opponent's abilities and there's no denying that. If you're faced with a 10% shot versus a 10% safety and your opponent negates 50% of your safeties then you're looking at 10% shot versus 5% safety. You have to go for the shot.
I am not a pro by any stretch of the imagination, but I gotta agree with Johnny on this one. I dont see how you can play the table and not your opponent unless you can run racks all day. My opponents strength & weakness has a huge effect on my shot selection.
Thank you sir. You put it a lot better than I. Johnnyt
If you get matched up with a guy like Efren you might as well stay in
the chair and play with yourself. You may never get to play the table.
the chair and play with yourself. You may never get to play the table.
I have been in many situations where my realistic options are limited to either a tough shot, a weak safety or safety that is just as difficult to execute as the shot. By weak safety I mean stuff like leaving the CB and OB on opposite rails, leaving easy one rail kicks, etc. A decent safety would be having your opponent hooked, but not locked up, and a solid safety would be leaving them locked up without room to jump.
So, say I'm playing Shane in 9-ball and I can either take a shot that I figure to make half the time but would be followed by an easy out or play a weak safety that I can execute almost every time, I would take the shot. Against a player that isn't likely to be able to do anything with my weak safety, I'd play the safety. It all depends on which course of action is most likely to result in me winning the game. Letting Shane back to the table with a look at the object ball would probably result in a loss, but against a weak player, I might still be the favorite to win the rack.
It's not a question of why a shot that would work against Shane wouldn't work against a weaker player, it's a question of whether it's worth taking a risk on a shot that might work against Shane when there's a shot available the is more likely to work against the person you are playing.
Here's another way of looking at it: Handicaps are essentially based on how often we screw up. If you're giving up weight to someone, you are counting on them screwing up more often than you. They can only do that if you give them a chance to. If you sell out racks by attempting low percentage shots when there is an option to leave them bad and let them help you out, you're missing an opportunity. This is especially important when playing a weak player in a handicapped race that's determined by ball count, such as 14.1, one pocket, or rotation, but also applies in some 9 ball situations.
You are a solid player if you can miss on purpose and leave the opponent a 7 foot straight in shot where he can't cheat the pocket.
I've seen guys push out to a jump shot and that is a good strategy against a weak player but for the most part you will get the worst end of a push out against a top player. Guys like Efren, Bustamante and Earl don't jump very often but that doesn't mean you are going to like it when they step to table and kick.
You are also a solid player if you can cheat a 4 1/8 pocket at 7 foot, especially at the speed you would have to strike the CB and english you would have to apply to get all around the table.
I disagree. If you are playing to your opponent, you are either psyching yourself up or down. There is always one best choice for your present skill level, and that is the choice you should always make. Each and every shot should be to the best of your ability. Never dumb down your game because your opponent is weak in a certain area. Play each and every shot like you are playing for everything you have. If you don't do that, you are only spinning your wheels and will only limit how well you can eventually play.
The obvious exception to that would be if you are hustling someone. People say that if they were playing Shane, they would take the tougher shot because they don't want him to get to the table. That is wrong thinking. If you feel you will probably miss the shot, you are making yourself the favorite to miss it. So, you are selling yourself down the river. You then should play the safe. Sure, he might hit it, probably will. That doesn't mean you are worse off. That just gives you another opportunity with him only getting one shot.
When you are worried about what your opponent will do if you miss, you are playing him, and not giving yourself your best chance at what the table has to offer you.
Yes, it's all about making the right decisions. Those decisions are determined by what YOU can do, not what your opponent MIGHT do. YOU always want to stay in control of the table. If you take on a risky shot just because your opponent is a great player and pass on the so-so safe you know you can do, you have to be willing to face the inevitable. That is, you are lessening your chances of a successful outcome. You miss the shot, you don't know what will happen. Will you leave a duck, or get a lucky safe? You don't know, because you missed. But, with the so-so safe, at least you know what you will leave. It will not be an easy shot, but something he has to work at or play safe himself.
You keep playing your opponent, you are doing nothing more than giving him an edge. Sure, at times it will pay off. But, if you keep track of it, you will find that it will bite you just as often. You don't gain a thing.
Yes that indeed makes more sense.
What if you have a shot that you're 50/50 (perhaps 60/40) to make. You're playing a weak player and have a safe on where you think he's, at best, 20% to either make the ball or leave you in trouble. The right option there is obviously to play the safe. Now say you're in the same situation playing Shane. This time you're still 50/50 or so to make the ball, but the safe you can play you feel Shane is a good 75% or so to make the ball or to leave you in a bad situation when you return. If I'm in that spot, I'm taking my chances and going for the pot.
I agree that you should generally look to play the table, as this ensures you play to your strengths and play your best, most consistent pool, but there are always situations in games where you should consider playing the man, too.
Too much thought is going into this. Who works out percentages when playing? This isn't poker.
If I have a tough shot all I'm thinking is I go for it, is he capable of running out or do I play safe then A) can he reach the safety shot and/ or screw me over if he does, and B) can I get out from BIH where the safe OB would be.
If you are working percentages out then you are playing a different game than me.
If I have a tough shot all I'm thinking is I go for it, is he capable of running out or do I play safe then A) can he reach the safety shot and/ or screw me over if he does, and B) can I get out from BIH where the safe OB would be.
If you are working percentages out then you are playing a different game than me.