playability- deep knifed points vs inlays

B

breakshot

Collector/Serious player
Silver Member
IMHO--It amazes me how may people don't know the differences and don't care about how inlaid points or deep knifed points affect the playability/durability/quality of a cue.
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So here are a few things for others to consider IMHO. When I pick a players cue, I want it to last for a long time (because nobody wants to waste their money-especially not now) and I want the cue to match my stroke/playing style.
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1.Inlays- cosmetic, most of the time the forearm isn't cored, coupled with the fact that there are no deep knifed or spiced hardwood points-This makes the cue/wood more prone to warping and moving over time and with changes in humidity. there is no significant change in weight distribution, stiffness or flex. The inlays are glued in a shallow pocket 1/16" to 1/8"(avg.) in which 5 min. epoxy is usually used, which does not have time to soak into the wood fibers.
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2.Deep knifed or spiced points- These are cut deep into the forearm (usually cored- for stability). By cutting the points deep into the cue, the cue maker is able to control the weight distribution (by using heavy inlays) and flex (by the length of the points and by more/fewer points) much easier- they have more variables that they can alter, which ultimately change the playing characteristics of the cue. Also a number of cue makers use 24hr epoxy which has a chance to soak into the fibers of the wood, thereby providing a much better glue seam protecting the points from heaving, moving or breaking due to humidity.
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Just some info I thought all pool players should know
 
breakshot said:
IMHO--It amazes me how may people don't know the differences and don't care about how inlaid points or deep knifed points affect the playability/durability/quality of a cue.
-
So here are a few things for others to consider IMHO. When I pick a players cue, I want it to last for a long time (because nobody wants to waste their money-especially not now) and I want the cue to match my stroke/playing style.
-
1.Inlays- cosmetic, most of the time the forearm isn't cored, coupled with the fact that there are no deep knifed or spiced hardwood points-This makes the cue/wood more prone to warping and moving over time and with changes in humidity. there is no significant change in weight distribution, stiffness or flex. The inlays are glued in a shallow pocket 1/16" to 1/8"(avg.) in which 5 min. epoxy is usually used, which does not have time to soak into the wood fibers.
--
--
2.Deep knifed or spiced points- These are cut deep into the forearm (usually cored- for stability). By cutting the points deep into the cue, the cue maker is able to control the weight distribution (by using heavy inlays) and flex (by the length of the points and by more/fewer points) much easier- they have more variables that they can alter, which ultimately change the playing characteristics of the cue. Also a number of cue makers use 24hr epoxy which has a chance to soak into the fibers of the wood, thereby providing a much better glue seam protecting the points from heaving, moving or breaking due to humidity.
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Just some info I thought all pool players should know
Click to expand...
I have my opinion on this point of spliced points. Say for instance you take a half spliced cue and hang both ends (about one inch supported on both ends) up high so that a weight could be placed in the center of the cue. Say the weight is me hanging from it. I weigh over 260 lbs. The cue will snap like a tooth pick. Take one of my cues and let me hang from it and I will definitely bend it butt it will support my weight. Now as far as balance I can take different density woods and balance a cue how ever wanted, forward or back. I agree about the 24 hour glue for inlays and construction. My cues are airtight so humidity does not affect them. Now that I have developed a new shaft coating my shafts are air tight.
 
I don't know why it would be important for a cue to take such a strain laterally, I can't think of any type of stroke which would repeat those kind of forces. As far as I know all of the force generated from a pool stroke is felt by the cue longitudally.
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As far as air tight, are you saying that if you submerged the cue under water, that the cue would not absorb any water, if that is true then it would be air tight (similar to and air tight submarine) and no humidity or moisture would get in
 
breakshot said:
IMHO--It amazes me how may people don't know the differences and don't care about how inlaid points or deep knifed points affect the playability/durability/quality of a cue.
-
So here are a few things for others to consider IMHO. When I pick a players cue, I want it to last for a long time (because nobody wants to waste their money-especially not now) and I want the cue to match my stroke/playing style.
-
1.Inlays- cosmetic, most of the time the forearm isn't cored, coupled with the fact that there are no deep knifed or spiced hardwood points-This makes the cue/wood more prone to warping and moving over time and with changes in humidity. there is no significant change in weight distribution, stiffness or flex. The inlays are glued in a shallow pocket 1/16" to 1/8"(avg.) in which 5 min. epoxy is usually used, which does not have time to soak into the wood fibers.
--
--
2.Deep knifed or spiced points- These are cut deep into the forearm (usually cored- for stability). By cutting the points deep into the cue, the cue maker is able to control the weight distribution (by using heavy inlays) and flex (by the length of the points and by more/fewer points) much easier- they have more variables that they can alter, which ultimately change the playing characteristics of the cue. Also a number of cue makers use 24hr epoxy which has a chance to soak into the fibers of the wood, thereby providing a much better glue seam protecting the points from heaving, moving or breaking due to humidity.
-
-
Just some info I thought all pool players should know
Click to expand...
Where did you get the notion that v-pointed cues are USUALLY cored?
If it's v-pointed, why would coring help?
 
breakshot said:
I don't know why it would be important for a cue to take such a strain laterally, I can't think of any type of stroke which would repeat those kind of forces. As far as I know all of the force generated from a pool stroke is felt by the cue longitudally.
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As far as air tight, are you saying that if you submerged the cue under water, that the cue would not absorb any water, if that is true then it would be air tight (similar to and air tight submarine) and no humidity or moisture would get in
Click to expand...
I could submerge my cue but I would not do it because it is the extreme test situation of moisture like hanging from the cue is the extreme test situation of construction. If the stronger construction delivers a consistent feedback every time like my cues do, I go with the stronger construction. On the other hand the full splice is a stronger connection than my system but movement will always be a factor with full spliced cues. My cues movement is negligible. My shaft movement is negligible. My hit is always consistent because of the construction.
 
If the stronger construction delivers a consistent feedback every time like my cues do, I go with the stronger construction.
The strongest construction would be multiple tubes. One over another over another but that would too costly imo.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Where did you get the notion that v-pointed cues are USUALLY cored?
If it's v-pointed, why would coring help?
Click to expand...
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Because the forearms are usually birds eye or curly (unstable wood but great resonance) they should be cored IMO because the "deepness" of the points don't go all the way to the joint. Therefore if the forearm isn't cored then there is a section of the forearm at the top of the points that would be more susceptible to instability over the long run(years)
 
JoeyInCali said:
If the stronger construction delivers a consistent feedback every time like my cues do, I go with the stronger construction.
The strongest construction would be multiple tubes. One over another over another but that would too costly imo.
Click to expand...
How did you know my secret.
 
breakshot said:
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Because the forearms are usually birds eye or curly (unstable wood but great resonance) they should be cored IMO because the "deepness" of the points don't go all the way to the joint. Therefore if the forearm isn't cored then there is a section of the forearm at the top of the points that would be more susceptible to instability over the long run(years)
Click to expand...
That might be true but MOST v-pointed cues I know are NOT cored.
SW, Judd, DPK, and more.
Also, inlayed-pointed cues CAN hit as well as any v-pointed cue.
Take a maple forearm, core it with 3/4 tight grain maple. Inlay all you want at .125 deep, the CENTER is still intact.
Put a rosewood cored handle ( 7/8 diam ).
I bet it hits better than an ebony pointed cue with maple handle.
Reasonance and stiffness in the middle of the butt determine the hit imo ( besides shaft ).
Not inlaying or pointing construction.
 
JoeyInCali said:
The strongest construction would be multiple tubes. One over another over another but that would too costly imo.
Click to expand...

Sounds kinda like a P3. Eewww...
 
JoeyInCali said:
That might be true but MOST v-pointed cues I know are NOT cored.
SW, Judd, DPK, and more.
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If you want the birds eye or curly to remain stable over the years, then coring the cue with rock maple is the best that I have ever heard.
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Also, inlayed-pointed cues CAN hit as well as any v-pointed cue.
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Yes, true- but what cue is going to hold up to the test of time best, because if i'm going to spend thousands of dollars on a cue, I don't want it to be a banana after a couple of strong swings in humidity. I'm not saying that every one will warp but without that strength, you run a higher risk.
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Take a maple forearm, core it with 3/4 tight grain maple. Inlay all you want at .125 deep, the CENTER is still intact.
Put a rosewood cored handle ( 7/8 diam ).
I bet it hits better than an ebony pointed cue with maple handle.
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You are starting with a cored cue(this is great)- IMO there are subtle differences between those two types of cues, first the weight your adding (rosewood-dense) is right at the handle versus adding the weight(ebony) just in front of the handle area
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Reasonance and stiffness in the middle of the butt determine the hit imo ( besides shaft ).
Not inlaying or pointing construction.
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agreed, I'm not saying that points are the only thing to consider, just one of many variables. In addition to Resonance and stiffness, another thing to consider is where the player holds the cue(towards the front or back) because this can force a nodal point and change how a cue resonates.
Thanks- great ideas
Click to expand...
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Thanks-------------
 
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breakshot said:
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agreed, I'm not saying that points are the only thing to consider, just one of many variables. In addition to Resonance and stiffness, another thing to consider is where the player holds the cue(towards the front or back) because this can force a nodal point and change how a cue resonates.
Click to expand...


Not sure about this having squat to do with whether the cue has been cored, inlaid, deep knifed or otherwise. I believe the nodal points are going to be very close to same spot on most cues that are the same size even if different materials are used.
 
What I was saying is, depending on where the player holds the cue(forward or toward the bumper), this will greatly affect where and how many nodal points you have in the cue. All i'm saying is that this should affect how the cue is made with respect to weight distribution and stiffness, shaft flex and length.
 
breakshot said:
What I was saying is, depending on where the player holds the cue(forward or toward the bumper), this will greatly affect where and how many nodal points you have in the cue. All i'm saying is that this should affect how the cue is made with respect to weight distribution and stiffness, shaft flex and length.
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There may be a mild bit of validity to this but my guess is based on your location you've been hanging around my friend's place to much and listening to him unsimplfy some of the simplest of things.
 
hey

BarenbruggeCues said:
There may be a mild bit of validity to this but my guess is based on your location you've been hanging around my friend's place to much and listening to him unsimplfy some of the simplest of things.
Click to expand...


Personally....I think the more time you spend there, the better off you will be. To tell you the truth....you should all spend a little time there....LOL
Steve
 
tikkler said:
Personally....I think the more time you spend there, the better off you will be. To tell you the truth....you should all spend a little time there....LOL
Steve
Click to expand...
Don't, Dave's nutty enough.
He caresses his shaftwoods before each pass and whispers, " This will hurt, but I promise I'll be gentle".
Also, he only tones his woods and cues right after midnight.
Don't ask why. I made a mistake of asking him once.
 
What is amazing to me STILL is that nobody cares- this thread is about a significant issue in how and why a cue made the way it is, and only hand full of people have posted in this thread.
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On the other hand threads about misc. BS get enormous interest- this really shows me what type of person our sport is comprised of.
 
Hi Steve,
I totally agree with your comments.
Great seeing you down here a couple of weeks ago.
 
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